Update: Power Upgrades & Champions Launch

Azoth658

evil panda wrote:

Gonna reiterate my request (and join the chorus here) for a more comprehensive discussion of where you are going with this. You guys aren't going to just give up the revenue stream from cover sales without trying to capture it somewhere else. So where is the game going?

They will have tested this new system internally before launch and the psychology of reward is hugely addictive. Knowing buying those gold cover packs are going to give you rewards even if you have the character maxed already means more people will be tempted into buying gold packs.

Releasing more characters each month and now making you unable to buy their covers at launch, means the people willing to pay are more likely to buy the featured tokens in hope of the new 4* and 5* covers. Especially as they know they are going to get more than just a really poor return on ISO with the new champion system.

I think this new system will actually generate a lot more money for them whilst stalling the payers from pulling further away at the speed they used to.

DaveR4470

evil panda wrote:

Gonna reiterate my request (and join the chorus here) for a more comprehensive discussion of where you are going with this. You guys aren't going to just give up the revenue stream from cover sales without trying to capture it somewhere else. So where is the game going?

That they are doing this is the clearest message you could possibly get that the revenue stream from cover sales is/was negligible or minimal.

Cable_eel

aesthetocyst wrote:

Crowl wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Every single F2P game is based on micro transactions. $3 here, $5 there. Those make up more than what the whales fork out. 1000 people paying $3 is more than 20 Whales paying $100.

Actually, any numbers known for f2p games do not back up your claim at all, it is the whales that cover far more of the costs with figures ranging from 60-90% of total revenue coming from them.

In those studies ... that I have seen ... the definition of "whale" is very low by MPQ standards. It 's practically anyone who spends at any level on a regular basis, even the 5 bucks a pop crowd (like me ), or anyone who drops a jackson even once.

We all would probably define "whale" in MPQ a bit differently, but in mind, no matter how you look at it, it's players who spend in units of $100, not the "smalltimers" who would be whales in other games.

Interesting, so time to bring out the actual facts instead of our impressions.
The SWRVE January 2015 monetization report seems to be the most comprehensive analysis. It shows 2.3% of active players made a purchase. The top 10% of these spenders (0.23% of the total active player base) accounted for 64% of revenue. They don't break it down on how much those 10% spent in this year's report, but in 2014, the average spending was 7 purchases of $11.10 per month. Meaning the whales who spend an average of $78 per month are the ones accounting for most of the revenue.

http://www.newsroom-advance.fr/wp-conte ... 1Apr15.pdf

CrookedKnight

Which is interesting, because $78 per month means your average whale is still not spending enough to max every 4* character that comes down the pipe.

Azoth658

CrookedKnight wrote:

Which is interesting, because $78 per month means your average whale is still not spending enough to max every 4* character that comes down the pipe.

Unless they are buying 40 packs / Clearing DDQ vault of best prize and getting lucky. Every 4* cover that they already have maxed is what 1000? 2000? ISO.

Who knows how they are doing it but some players just seem able to. In all fairness I have yet to see a high level Miles, Ghost, Cho or Venom etc so maybe it takes a little while even for the big boys on the newest releases.

biryon

cable_eel wrote:

The top 10% of these spenders (0.23% of the total active player base) accounted for 64% of revenue.

I guess that explains why they think a 0.3% chance of pulling a particular 4* from a token is good odds.

Azoth658

biryon wrote:

cable_eel wrote:

The top 10% of these spenders (0.23% of the total active player base) accounted for 64% of revenue.

I guess that explains why they think a 0.3% chance of pulling a particular 4* from a token is good odds.

But with the addition of new 4* that is 0.3% better each character. I've noticed a huge shift in the number of 4*s I have had drop from a standard gold token in the last month.

woopie

cable_eel wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Crowl wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Every single F2P game is based on micro transactions. $3 here, $5 there. Those make up more than what the whales fork out. 1000 people paying $3 is more than 20 Whales paying $100.

Actually, any numbers known for f2p games do not back up your claim at all, it is the whales that cover far more of the costs with figures ranging from 60-90% of total revenue coming from them.

In those studies ... that I have seen ... the definition of "whale" is very low by MPQ standards. It 's practically anyone who spends at any level on a regular basis, even the 5 bucks a pop crowd (like me ), or anyone who drops a jackson even once.

We all would probably define "whale" in MPQ a bit differently, but in mind, no matter how you look at it, it's players who spend in units of $100, not the "smalltimers" who would be whales in other games.

Interesting, so time to bring out the actual facts instead of our impressions.
The SWRVE January 2015 monetization report seems to be the most comprehensive analysis. It shows 2.3% of active players made a purchase. The top 10% of these spenders (0.23% of the total active player base) accounted for 64% of revenue. They don't break it down on how much those 10% spent in this year's report, but in 2014, the average spending was 7 purchases of $11.10 per month. Meaning the whales who spend an average of $78 per month are the ones accounting for most of the revenue.

http://www.newsroom-advance.fr/wp-conte ... 1Apr15.pdf

I used that study in an earlier post, but it does have its flaws. Mainly that it's using the spend for all mobile games (that it has access to). Look at Think Gaming's estimates (https://thinkgaming.com/app-sales-data/) and take a gander at the 120 games above MPQ on the list. A lot of those games (Clash of Clans, Candy Crush, various casino games) are more than playable with multiple smaller purchases because they help extend a single gaming session or get you past a hump. MPQ has no mechanic that encourages small purchases. In fact, the prices are so bad down low, that high level players don't get any value out of HP purchases until you're at the $20+ level ($5 won't even get me a slot). Look at what the whales are doing with their HP. They're maxing characters (@ $100 per character) and they're buying 40 packs for the LTs (11,200 HP). They aren't going to buy 2 Asgards, they're going to buy a Stark.

woopie

Azoth658 wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Which is interesting, because $78 per month means your average whale is still not spending enough to max every 4* character that comes down the pipe.

Unless they are buying 40 packs / Clearing DDQ vault of best prize and getting lucky. Every 4* cover that they already have maxed is what 1000? 2000? ISO.

Who knows how they are doing it but some players just seem able to. In all fairness I have yet to see a high level Miles, Ghost, Cho or Venom etc so maybe it takes a little while even for the big boys on the newest releases.

Go into your season ranking -> Alliances -> Top Ranking -> KA Jedi -> Colog and you will find your high level Miles, Ghost, Cho, and Venom. You're welcome

Azoth658

woopie wrote:

Azoth658 wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Which is interesting, because $78 per month means your average whale is still not spending enough to max every 4* character that comes down the pipe.

Unless they are buying 40 packs / Clearing DDQ vault of best prize and getting lucky. Every 4* cover that they already have maxed is what 1000? 2000? ISO.

Who knows how they are doing it but some players just seem able to. In all fairness I have yet to see a high level Miles, Ghost, Cho or Venom etc so maybe it takes a little while even for the big boys on the newest releases.

Go into your season ranking -> Alliances -> Top Ranking -> KA Jedi -> Colog and you will find your high level Miles, Ghost, Cho, and Venom. You're welcome

There has to be one

Ok but surely they aren't a widespread occurence?

Really pscyhed to see how the new changes shift the game in the next three months.

woopie

Azoth658 wrote:

woopie wrote:

Azoth658 wrote:

CrookedKnight wrote:

Which is interesting, because $78 per month means your average whale is still not spending enough to max every 4* character that comes down the pipe.

Unless they are buying 40 packs / Clearing DDQ vault of best prize and getting lucky. Every 4* cover that they already have maxed is what 1000? 2000? ISO.

Who knows how they are doing it but some players just seem able to. In all fairness I have yet to see a high level Miles, Ghost, Cho or Venom etc so maybe it takes a little while even for the big boys on the newest releases.

Go into your season ranking -> Alliances -> Top Ranking -> KA Jedi -> Colog and you will find your high level Miles, Ghost, Cho, and Venom. You're welcome

There has to be one

Ok but surely they aren't a widespread occurence?

Really pscyhed to see how the new changes shift the game in the next three months.

I love that Colog would (use to) max all the new characters. Even though they'd be buffed, it'd be good to see if I should use my time/effort to level them up. Plus, doing so he would give the rest of the forum a ton of info on how they played which helped determine optimal covers.

This is what's going to happen in the next 3 months - people who have already maxed some combo of JG, Rulk, Cyclops, HB, and Ice Gollum will continue to dominate the meta. People who would want to whale one or more of those characters will be stuck with RNGsus and the super whales will continue to super whale

Unknown

Lystrata wrote:

A nice gesture / good move.

Could you also make an in-game announcement for this, so average players who don't live on the forums are aware of the change to the system? Considering this is a change that affects what people spent real-world money on, I think it's important all players are made aware of it.

Good feedback! Good idea to have a notification in app, for upcoming currency and important changes. Because the players who do not regularly check the forums, will have a surprise coming to them. Might be some upset players.

Phaserhawk

cable_eel wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Crowl wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Every single F2P game is based on micro transactions. $3 here, $5 there. Those make up more than what the whales fork out. 1000 people paying $3 is more than 20 Whales paying $100.

Actually, any numbers known for f2p games do not back up your claim at all, it is the whales that cover far more of the costs with figures ranging from 60-90% of total revenue coming from them.

In those studies ... that I have seen ... the definition of "whale" is very low by MPQ standards. It 's practically anyone who spends at any level on a regular basis, even the 5 bucks a pop crowd (like me ), or anyone who drops a jackson even once.

We all would probably define "whale" in MPQ a bit differently, but in mind, no matter how you look at it, it's players who spend in units of $100, not the "smalltimers" who would be whales in other games.

Interesting, so time to bring out the actual facts instead of our impressions.
The SWRVE January 2015 monetization report seems to be the most comprehensive analysis. It shows 2.3% of active players made a purchase. The top 10% of these spenders (0.23% of the total active player base) accounted for 64% of revenue. They don't break it down on how much those 10% spent in this year's report, but in 2014, the average spending was 7 purchases of $11.10 per month. Meaning the whales who spend an average of $78 per month are the ones accounting for most of the revenue.

http://www.newsroom-advance.fr/wp-conte ... 1Apr15.pdf

Interesting article, but it's all stated on page 8, which on the graph shows that about 60% of the revenue from games comes from $20 and under purchases and the majority is at the $20 range, which as it even states when you buy the Logan Loonies, it's most popular. So I'm still going say that the non-whales, (anyone $20 and under) vs. the whales ($50 and over) and the semi-whales in between. But as it shows that about 85-90% of all purchases are $20 and under. Given MPQ may have different results, I think anyone on the forum has a more skewed view since we take the game more seriously. We make up maybe 5-10% of the community, trust me, most of their revenue is not from whales.

greenglove

Since I'm mostly f2p myself, I didn't often spend HP on covers myself, but for one I'll really miss Colog's early impressions of how characters play. His insights were always an interesting read. Plus anything that zssentially makes 4* progression even more random until CP rewards become more than a trickle is a bad thing.
0

Der_Lex
S.H.I.E.L.D. Spec-Ops Agent

Posts: 886
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:06 pm
Reputation: 1044

You won't have to miss this if Colog is doing this by means of a sandboxed account. A sandbox account can also max out the cp, as I just did on mine.

emaker27

If I could speak for the playerbase.... This is the type of post/communication we're looking for on big features/changes: http://forum.dungeonboss.com/discussion ... -guilds/p1

Acknowledgement of the users, advance notice of a couple weeks, a somewhat detailed breakdown, and the reasoning behind it. There will always be angry people, but a post like that would reduce their numbers.

TxMoose

aesthetocyst wrote:

greenglove wrote:

You won't have to miss this if Colog is doing this by means of a sandboxed account. A sandbox account can also max out the cp, as I just did on mine.

Colognoisseur is not 'boxed. He's a hard worker and legit as they come.

I read it as colog could make a sandboxed acct and still give the same opinions by playing the new characters there. if that is what he meant it is kinda short-sighted because I think (I don't know, this is a presumption) colog enjoys actually playing real meaningful matches with the new guys in live action - not the same in a sandbox I would think.

if he was actually implying colog was a cheater, good luck to him because he's commenting on stuff he doesn't know about. yes I just made a similar comment since I don't know colog personally, but I did couch it with admitting it was a presumption that was based on what I've read of his posts, so it was not uninformed.

Linkster79

emaker27 wrote:

If I could speak for the playerbase.... This is the type of post/communication we're looking for on big features/changes: http://forum.dungeonboss.com/discussion ... -guilds/p1

Acknowledgement of the users, advance notice of a couple weeks, a somewhat detailed breakdown, and the reasoning behind it. There will always be angry people, but a post like that would reduce their numbers.

Dozens of examples of good communication by developers to their player base have been given and linked to over the last 18 months or so, yet for some reason D3Go! seem either unwilling or unable to follow suit. Who knows maybe scientific studies have shown that it is better to have such gems as "You're supposed to lose" or to even adopt the seagull effect on Fridays (fly in, drop a load of guano then fly out).

DeNappa

On 5*'s, the 'buy with CP' seems to be live already. At least on iOS.

CrookedKnight

Buying 5* covers with CP has been live since they introduced CP, hasn't it?

jffdougan

DeNappa wrote:

On 5*'s, the 'buy with CP' seems to be live already. At least on iOS.

I believe it has been for 5* for a month or so.