Update: Power Upgrades & Champions Launch

DrStrange-616

Thank you for listening. I'm still perplexed that this reaction wasn't foreseen and planned for accordingly.

lukewin

Pasted from another thread.

Here's another conspiracy theory for you. They always planned to have the "covers bought by CP purchase only" happen on the 13th, but announced that it was rolling out with the update, so they could generate outrage and people buying covers with HP and buying more HP to buy covers with HP. Then, they announced that they were pushing it back a week to gather the goodwill of listening to their userbase while counting the money that came in.

GurlBYE

Instead of just delaying it can you explain it FULLY.

are you upping command points gained?

Do you realize how uncommon these are?

Do you realize that you've somehow made the value proposition go from "if I had a ton of extra money" to "HAHAHAHHHAHAHA NO."

100 bucks get 7 CP.

100 bucks used to buy roughly 7 4* covers IIRC.

You guys need to step up to plate with communication hardcore.

Bowgentle

So how long until that fixed cover at 1000 in PVP is replaced by the new lower tier LT?

And how long until the game is renamed to Marvel Gacha Quest?

Lukoil

GurlBYE wrote:

are you upping command points gained?

emmmm...yes...champions progression rewards.

D4Ni13

Yet again, very few see the big picture here.

Ok, so you won't be able to pay-4-win anymore. That is a great thing for beginners and medium players. Guess it's bad for big players (whales? or how you call them).

But, comparing the price of CP in HP is nevertheless stupid. You are not supposed to buy Command Points with Hero Points or $. You are supposed to earn them both.

How much time do you need to earn 1250 HP for upgrading a 3 star ?
If you play in every PvP and reach 725 points on ladder, you can make 100HP. But a PvP lasts for 3 days or so.
You can also earn HP from the Vault (but that is not very reliable), and you can also make HP from other events (PvE maybe?).

So lets say you make 150 HP at every 3 days. That whould means minimum 25-27 days to make 1250 HP, in order to upgrade a 3 star.

How much time do you need to earn 20 Command Points for upgrading a 3 star ?
You can earn CP in many various ways:
- 15 CP every 30 days form Daily Supply
- 1 to 7 CP from your alliance every once in a while (I'm not really sure what it is based on - purchases maybe?)
- 2CP per PvE slice (usually a PvE has 3 or 4 slices).
- 1-2CP depending on standings in PvP & PvE
- 1-25CP for Season Standings
- And with the new Champion System you would earn CP frequently for leveling the characters you have.

So it's safer to say that you can earn 20 CP in less than 25 days needed to earn HP. It's also safer to say that you could probably earn an average of 1CP per day (for a 20 day interval) playing casual (it si possible now, without the new feature).

So instead of playing hard 25 days to earn HP you can now earn CP much faster and do the same thing you wanted to do before.
So.. from a free-2-play point of view, the new change is a WIN.

I guess investing less money into the game is bad for you? That's why you all complain? Or you didn't even bothered to do the math?

And furthermore, if you really want to pay-2-win, you can still do this. But instead of buying CP, you can invest your 50 bucks (or how much you want) into HP and buy 40 packs. With the covers you get, you invest in Champion system and earn CP. With the CP you upgrade your desired characters.


PS.
I care less about this HP to CP change... I care about the Champions. And now, because of your complains, the update si being delayed, again. I hope you're happy...
Oh, I got an idea: how about complaining some more. Maybe they will delay the Champions to 13 jan also...

IlDuderino

A week's grace doesn't help me. I am sat on enough HP to buy about 14 covers, which I bought in the sale. I was waiting for Red Hulk green cover to then max him as I do not have even one. I would also max Iceman or Cyclops if I had the base covers.

If I have to use this HP by next week the only candidate is Jean Grey. I need to know, are you going to nerf her as someone suggested last week? Please let me know this week, well before this Command Point for cover purchases goes live. If she is getting a nerf I will need to apply to Apple for a refund as the HP are now virtually worthless to me.

Seriously disappointed customer

Bowgentle

D4Ni13 wrote:

How much time do you need to earn 20 Command Points for upgrading a 3 star ?

Nobody cares about upgrading a 3* cover, that one is reasonably priced at 20 CP.

We do care about upgrading a 4* cover, which is _insanely_ priced at 120 CP.

D4Ni13

Bowgentle wrote:

D4Ni13 wrote:

How much time do you need to earn 20 Command Points for upgrading a 3 star ?

Nobody cares about upgrading a 3* cover, that one is reasonably priced at 20 CP.

We do care about upgrading a 4* cover, which is _insanely_ priced at 120 CP.

That was there for math purposes only. I know that nobody cares about the 3 star upgrading.
They already said they want to balance the player base. In order to do that, the big guys have to grow slower (the main reason some guys grow so fast is that they grow by paying money, and they don't want that).

Monged4life

Well its a bit late to say that now after all the vets got to where they are by buying covers. This can only further widen the gap between vets and noobies. It would take 4 years to get where people who have played for 2 years are.

Daeft

What I'm looking for right now is a very clear description of what each resource (iso/HP/CP) will buy.

I've dropped $150 on HP in the last few months so that when I finally have 1/1/1 in a four star I like I can buy up the covers that grinding just don't provide me with.

I've been playing this game regularly for the last two years now and when I an nearing the resources to help carry me to the next star tier some great balance change happens and my progress gets delayed by months while stronger teams beat me down in pvp.

I really like this game. I do. I wouldn't have stuck with it this long if I didn't, but I'd like to spend my cash investment on something useful. (As opposed to covering the low tier 4*s I have which won't get me very far)


There is an inherent trade off in game design when you support ongoing development with non-cosmetic in game goods. These systems will be open to abuse by big spenders. But the invested value of small spenders really do need to be looked out for when making changes to an economy. Especially one with this much momentum behind it.

Der_Lex

Arondite wrote:

D4Ni13 wrote:

Yet again, very few see the big picture here.

Ok, so you won't be able to pay-4-win anymore. That is a great thing for beginners and medium players. Guess it's bad for big players (whales? or how you call them).

But, comparing the price of CP in HP is nevertheless stupid. You are not supposed to buy Command Points with Hero Points or $. You are supposed to earn them both.

How much time do you need to earn 1250 HP for upgrading a 3 star ?
If you play in every PvP and reach 725 points on ladder, you can make 100HP. But a PvP lasts for 3 days or so.
You can also earn HP from the Vault (but that is not very reliable), and you can also make HP from other events (PvE maybe?).

So lets say you make 150 HP at every 3 days. That whould means minimum 25-27 days to make 1250 HP, in order to upgrade a 3 star.

How much time do you need to earn 20 Command Points for upgrading a 3 star ?
You can earn CP in many various ways:
- 15 CP every 30 days form Daily Supply
- 1 to 7 CP from your alliance every once in a while (I'm not really sure what it is based on - purchases maybe?)
- 2CP per PvE slice (usually a PvE has 3 or 4 slices).
- 1-2CP depending on standings in PvP & PvE
- 1-25CP for Season Standings
- And with the new Champion System you would earn CP frequently for leveling the characters you have.

So it's safer to say that you can earn 20 CP in less than 25 days needed to earn HP. It's also safer to say that you could probably earn an average of 1CP per day (for a 20 day interval) playing casual (it si possible now, without the new feature).

So instead of playing hard 25 days to earn HP you can now earn CP much faster and do the same thing you wanted to do before.
So.. from a free-2-play point of view, the new change is a WIN.

I guess investing less money into the game is bad for you? That's why you all complain? Or you didn't even bothered to do the math?

And furthermore, if you really want to pay-2-win, you can still do this. But instead of buying CP, you can invest your 50 bucks (or how much you want) into HP and buy 40 packs. With the covers you get, you invest in Champion system and earn CP. With the CP you upgrade your desired characters.


PS.
I care less about this HP to CP change... I care about the Champions. And now, because of your complains, the update si being delayed, again. I hope you're happy...
Oh, I got an idea: how about complaining some more. Maybe they will delay the Champions to 13 jan also...

Awful post.

-you vastly understate the rate at which HP can be earned by excluding PvE earnings.
-you use 3-stars as the base for the math. This is problematic because 3's are never purchased with HP to begin with, as well as the fact that the HP to CP conversion rate was much more...fair for 3's. 1,250 -> 2,500 is 200% ; 20 -> 120 is 600%.
-you complain about a delay of a few hours? When a significant portion of the user base was in a pinch, a situation where in game currency purchased recently over the holidays or stockpiled over a significant time was about to be devalued and lose a significant amount of purchasing power with little opportunity to be used before the devaluation occurred... Giving these players the opportunity to tinykitty themselves as much as possibly doesn't justify a few short hours of delay because that's not how you play?

Basically I'm saying you're the worst type of person - you apparently feel that, because you're free-to-play, consideration of other players monetary standings should be immaterial.

He also has no clue that the current most 'pay to win' aspects of the game do not involve the direct purchasing of covers at all, and are competely unaffected by this change. If anything, they're stimulated, since HP can now only be spent on shields and packs.

Since I'm mostly f2p myself, I didn't often spend HP on covers myself, but for one I'll really miss Colog's early impressions of how characters play. His insights were always an interesting read. Plus anything that zssentially makes 4* progression even more random until CP rewards become more than a trickle is a bad thing.

Platzy

"David wrote:

Moore"]One small caveat, to facilitate this change we need to make a few quick tweaks behind-the-scenes and the launch of Champion Levels will be slightly delayed. Look for Champion Levels to go live closer to tomorrow evening EST (rather than daytime).

Well, that's going to be an interesting wait for me then. I have 11 hours on a CMags cover in my queue left whom I want to Champion...

Unknown

if you have a hero at max level, can you immediately champion him for ISO or do you also need an extra cover to champion him and add one level immediately?

firethorne

Please, do an in game pop-up announcing the change for non forumites.

D4Ni13

Frasaria wrote:

if you have a hero at max level, can you immediately champion him for ISO or do you also need an extra cover to champion him and add one level immediately?

From this pictures I asume that you can champion him with ISO, but need covers to actually grow.

We will know for sure when the feature hits.

jordanix

I'm happy to hear that the HP change is being delayed until next week.

Unfortunately for me I did find out about the changes last night and spent half of my hp stash in a rush before finding out about the delay. It is what it is.

wymtime

GurlBYE wrote:

Instead of just delaying it can you explain it FULLY.

are you upping command points gained?

Do you realize how uncommon these are?

Do you realize that you've somehow made the value proposition go from "if I had a ton of extra money" to "HAHAHAHHHAHAHA NO."

100 bucks get 7 CP.

100 bucks used to buy roughly 7 4* covers IIRC.

You guys need to step up to plate with communication hardcore.

This is so on point. D3 needs much better communication on major changes like this. It is not just that they are changing the way people play the game but why they feel the currency should change. What is the reasoning behind it. Players will always disagree but many players will be a lot more accepting if they get an explanation of why you are changing they currency and what you are looking tovacomplish by the change. The communication of WHY is more important than the change itself. let the players know where you are trying to take the game and you will get more support than you are currently getting

puppychow

jordanix wrote:

I'm happy to hear that the HP change is being delayed until next week.

Unfortunately for me I did find out about the changes last night and spent half of my hp stash in a rush before finding out about the delay. It is what it is.

I did the same thing myself. Ended up max covering jean and bobby. Good thing Jean is so darn useful against goon cds in the heroic pve.

GurlBYE

D4Ni13 wrote:

I find it normal to be expensive to pay-2-upgrade a very good character. The devs want balance.

Yeah thats cool and all but

1- 25 4 stars late

2- lets be realistic it's entirely about , and most who spent on them will.

No one was effecting the balance of the game by tossing money into , if anything they were actively having their feelings hurt for every cover they put onto them, paid or not.

I'm all for being positive but don't use your own 'positivity' to try and make others feel like we should just hold blind faith.

The dudes who dump money in have every single right to feel how they like.