***** Jean Grey (Phoenix) *****

Polares

Quebbster wrote:

Polares wrote:

Hey Quebbster what did you do in the end? And was it a good decision?

Luck has awarded me the exact same configuration as you had 5/1/4 (and another green I had to waste ) so I can bring her to 405 If I want but I just have one purple cover which is by far not her best build

I already have a 405 level OML so she would be a nice partner, but I am worried about MMR (fighting just 450 teams in PvP? no thanks) and PvE scaling (450+ level muscles? Again, no thanks). Right now both of them are quite sweet, so I don't want to mess with them too much, if things are not going to be for the better...

PS: Input from other people with two 5s at this 400 level would be greatly appreciated.

My Phoenix is still at base level, I focused on my fourstar roster first and only just now got OML up to level 330. Ironically I am getting the green Phoenix cover in tomorrow's resupply. I also got a fifth and sixth red cover from legendary tokens...

So you have her at 5/1/5?

Random is really GREAT sometimes...

PS: It would be very nice if we could change the color of the 5s cover we get when they are over 5. Having a 5/1/5 or 5/2/5 char and keep getting the same covers over and over again and having to sell them for just 2000 iso is going to be really annoying.

Quebbster

Polares wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

Polares wrote:

Hey Quebbster what did you do in the end? And was it a good decision?

Luck has awarded me the exact same configuration as you had 5/1/4 (and another green I had to waste ) so I can bring her to 405 If I want but I just have one purple cover which is by far not her best build

I already have a 405 level OML so she would be a nice partner, but I am worried about MMR (fighting just 450 teams in PvP? no thanks) and PvE scaling (450+ level muscles? Again, no thanks). Right now both of them are quite sweet, so I don't want to mess with them too much, if things are not going to be for the better...

PS: Input from other people with two 5s at this 400 level would be greatly appreciated.

My Phoenix is still at base level, I focused on my fourstar roster first and only just now got OML up to level 330. Ironically I am getting the green Phoenix cover in tomorrow's resupply. I also got a fifth and sixth red cover from legendary tokens...

So you have her at 5/1/5?

Random is really GREAT sometimes...

PS: It would be very nice if we could change the color of the 5s cover we get when they are over 5. Having a 5/1/5 or 5/2/5 char and keep getting the same covers over and over again and having to sell them for just 2000 iso is going to be really annoying.

Tell me about it. In addition to my 5/1/5 Phoenix, I have a 2/5/1 OML (just pulled my first red last week... along with my sixth yellow) and a 1/0/5 Surfer. I have pulled duplicates of all the maxed skills - I Think I am up to 10 green Phoenix covers already.
I am looking forward to Spider-man being added to Classic legends since that means my chances of getting a fivestar cover I can actually use goes up - Spider-man is only 1/1/1.

SnowcaTT

SnowcaTT wrote:

I guess I should start trying mine? I have a 1/5/1 Phoenix as my best 5* (along with 5/0/0 SS, RNG has been brutal to me). I could run her alongside Cyc or HB for a red user, just doesn't pass an eye test as a good/scary team to me.

I read all of the folks wishing they had Purple and wanting purple as the daily drop cover....I want anything except that! Red would have been best for me, that Green (eventually) will do - probably will still need it in 6ish months.

RNG has been kind to me after this, continuing to grant me Phoenix in batches. One set of pulls and I went to 2/5/2. A later set of pulls I went to 3/5/3 (to bad my SS RNG went to 6/0/0 in the meantime...all with the wish that 6th or higher cover to be re-colored!)

It's finally time to level her; I had her at 300 for quite some time and I started putting all ISO into her on the last day of LR's last week, I'll have her at 355 or so by the end of LR's this week. Looking forward to having a usable 5* at last, just don't know where to stop leveling to get in a range where 4* teams don't hit me as much in Sim, but I don't see 5* teams only!

Polares

SnowcaTT wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

I guess I should start trying mine? I have a 1/5/1 Phoenix as my best 5* (along with 5/0/0 SS, RNG has been brutal to me). I could run her alongside Cyc or HB for a red user, just doesn't pass an eye test as a good/scary team to me.

I read all of the folks wishing they had Purple and wanting purple as the daily drop cover....I want anything except that! Red would have been best for me, that Green (eventually) will do - probably will still need it in 6ish months.

RNG has been kind to me after this, continuing to grant me Phoenix in batches. One set of pulls and I went to 2/5/2. A later set of pulls I went to 3/5/3 (to bad my SS RNG went to 6/0/0 in the meantime...all with the wish that 6th or higher cover to be re-colored!)

It's finally time to level her; I had her at 300 for quite some time and I started putting all ISO into her on the last day of LR's last week, I'll have her at 355 or so by the end of LR's this week. Looking forward to having a usable 5* at last, just don't know where to stop leveling to get in a range where 4* teams don't hit me as much in Sim, but I don't see 5* teams only!

Mine is 5/1/4 so I am one of those that need a couple of extra purple covers. And I have to say a 1/5/1 is a very good Phoenix, you just had to start leveling her to see her potential. Match damage is so high that when you get a cascade or a critical you start doing 5k+ damage, of course, I also have an OML, so my idea was to play a Phoenix purple as a complement for OML, which is not your situation. In the end, everybody wants what they don 't have

Anyway, the less useful color in general if you play normally is green. When I level mine, with 5 in green so nobody matches away the countdown, I will try to go into battles with just 10% or less life so she is killed very fast to see if green can be used for fast hops.

Almost all players I see with maxed Phoenixs have the 3/5/5 build (some have 5/4/4 but they are the minority).

Then take this with a pinch of salt (I would also like to have some confirmation with somebody with two 400+ 5s), but as long as you don't level your 5s over 435, or you have two 400+ level 5s, everything will be alright. I have a 405 OML and I can fight 4 or 5 teams, sometimes even champed 3 teams. Of course when over 1000 almost everybody has 5s, but that is because of the score.

Phumade

SnowcaTT wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

I guess I should start trying mine? I have a 1/5/1 Phoenix as my best 5* (along with 5/0/0 SS, RNG has been brutal to me). I could run her alongside Cyc or HB for a red user, just doesn't pass an eye test as a good/scary team to me.

It's finally time to level her; I had her at 300 for quite some time and I started putting all ISO into her on the last day of LR's last week, I'll have her at 355 or so by the end of LR's this week. Looking forward to having a usable 5* at last, just don't know where to stop leveling to get in a range where 4* teams don't hit me as much in Sim, but I don't see 5* teams only!

My only real advice to you is to wait until you have a 2nd viable 5* to be a good running partner. I made the decision to convert to 5* tier a month ago, and my main observation is that.

As long as your 5* are lower than your buffed 4*, then 5* MMR isn't an issue. The game will primarily match you with other max level 4*.

Once you have 1 5* are higher level than your 4*, your guaranteed to see at least 1 5* (even if its a weakly covered/leveled 5*) every other match. This is sorta the sweet spot where the MMR still primarily matches you with teams that are primarily weaker than you.

Once you have 2 5* that are higher than your buffed 4*, you will start see dual 5*. This isn't actually as big off a deal as people think. As long as your picking fights with similar or slightly stronger teams, you will be fine as long as you play smart. The real benefit of having dual 5* is that your completely OP in LR and in alot of the pve modes. Ironically, pvp seems to get harder with dual 5*, but the flexibility of being able to compete for LR and PVE top placements is a real game changer when it comes to farming iso.

SnowcaTT

Phumade wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

It's finally time to level her; I had her at 300 for quite some time and I started putting all ISO into her on the last day of LR's last week, I'll have her at 355 or so by the end of LR's this week. Looking forward to having a usable 5* at last, just don't know where to stop leveling to get in a range where 4* teams don't hit me as much in Sim, but I don't see 5* teams only!

My only real advice to you is to wait until you have a 2nd viable 5* to be a good running partner. I made the decision to convert to 5* tier a month ago, and my main observation is that.

As long as your 5* are lower than your buffed 4*, then 5* MMR isn't an issue. The game will primarily match you with other max level 4*.

Once you have 1 5* are higher level than your 4*, your guaranteed to see at least 1 5* (even if its a weakly covered/leveled 5*) every other match. This is sorta the sweet spot where the MMR still primarily matches you with teams that are primarily weaker than you.

Once you have 2 5* that are higher than your buffed 4*, you will start see dual 5*. This isn't actually as big off a deal as people think. As long as your picking fights with similar or slightly stronger teams, you will be fine as long as you play smart. The real benefit of having dual 5* is that your completely OP in LR and in alot of the pve modes. Ironically, pvp seems to get harder with dual 5*, but the flexibility of being able to compete for LR and PVE top placements is a real game changer when it comes to farming iso.

I started testing in LR's (330-350 range); I think my visibility may have popped out to a higher MMR. I was still seeing similar teams, but I was getting hit by max 5* or two big 5*'s a lot.

One reason I started leveling her is I was seeing 350 OML's every other match anyway (possibly because I keep having one champed/buffed 4* each event?), and I was often getting hit by 400+ 5*'s anyway. I was seeing tons of 5*'s, I was getting hit by tons of high-level 5*'s...I have a hard time seeing how leveling is going to be that much of a detriment.

Double ISO has let me push her to 370 before reading your advice - I started Cage PVP at 350(ish) and looking around today I certainly do see less (almost no) 3* rosters. On the other hand, I seem to be floating higher than I usually would - the 4* only hits have mostly stopped. The 5* hits slowed after about 345, the higher she gets the fewer level-equivalent 5*'s are hitting me - somewhat because they may not be cover-equivalent.

Then again, I pushed to 2K in Sim the other day and have only taken three hits (all by two or more 5* heavies) - Sim is primarily why I leveled her, it was to heavy in 5* land at the top and I didn't want to shield to hit the 2K.

5/22 update: Somehow unbelievably pulled three Phoenix in five draws today. Pulled another red first, at 4/5/3 and might as well get close to max for that green progression, in case that's my next one. Later in the day hit season progression - pulled another purple, 4/6/3. Rostered it as a 2nd trophy cover...no way I'd pull another one in the next 14 days, and even if I did no way I'd get to 450 from 185 in that time. PVP progression is my very next LT: and another Phoenix red to go to 13 covers. RNG has gone 13 Phoenix covers on one character, six other 5*'s (including another Phoenix and two SS's) and 12 other total 5* covers. Crazy times.

OzarkBoatswain

There was a stealth update with Psychic Flames some days ago. It at least counts CDs as friendly special tiles now. Before, it only counted attack/protect/strike tiles.

vudu3

Ozark Boatswain wrote:

There was a stealth update with Psychic Flames some days ago. It at least counts CDs as friendly special tiles now. Before, it only counted attack/protect/strike tiles.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't that a bad change for the player? Makes it easier to trigger the requirement for enemy attack tiles.

NickHewitt12

vudu3 wrote:

Ozark Boatswain wrote:

There was a stealth update with Psychic Flames some days ago. It at least counts CDs as friendly special tiles now. Before, it only counted attack/protect/strike tiles.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't that a bad change for the player? Makes it easier to trigger the requirement for enemy attack tiles.

There's been nothing BUT bad changes for the player when it comes to Phoenix. Green at five used to stun the enemy team, after reviving red used to be 6AP and purple was 8AP, and now this.

Polares

Nicholas Hewitt wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

Ozark Boatswain wrote:

There was a stealth update with Psychic Flames some days ago. It at least counts CDs as friendly special tiles now. Before, it only counted attack/protect/strike tiles.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't that a bad change for the player? Makes it easier to trigger the requirement for enemy attack tiles.

There's been nothing BUT bad changes for the player when it comes to Phoenix. Green at five used to stun the enemy team, after reviving red used to be 6AP and purple was 8AP, and now this.

Yeah, not cool. I guess it never said he was going to stun the other team, and it always said special tiles in the power description, so they can be considered fixes, but everything just makes her 'worse'

PS: Nothing anywhere about the power cost change, they changed that just because (even though it makes a lot of sense thematically for the character to become far more aggressive after the transformation)

Polares

I finally pulled my last PH cover, so I started hoarding so I can champ her and respec, mine is 5/3/5. But I have A LOT of doubts to which is her best build.

It looks like most people have her 3/5/5 (PvP Build?) or 5/4/4 (PvE build?), but I really think 5 in purple is mandatory so I might go from 3/5/5 to 5/5/3 depending who I am fighting. It is really annoying that going from 4 to 5 in red brings almost no use for the user (why attack tiles improve in number and strength and user strike tiles just improve in number ??????), and 4/5/4 doesn't look like a very good build.

jobob

Polares wrote:

I finally pulled my last PH cover, so I started hoarding so I can champ her and respec, mine is 5/3/5. But I have A LOT of doubts to which is her best build.

It looks like most people have her 3/5/5 (PvP Build?) or 5/4/4 (PvE build?), but I really think 5 in purple is mandatory so I might go from 3/5/5 to 5/5/3 depending who I am fighting. It is really annoying that going from 4 to 5 in red brings almost no use for the user (why attack tiles improve in number and strength and user strike tiles just improve in number ??????), and 4/5/4 doesn't look like a very good build.

5 purple is critical and the key to all her damage. 5* cascades are typically more damaging than the abilities. If you can get a red out first so there are some strike tiles... you can do 50k damage with the right board.

You're right, 4/5/4 doesn't give you much.

As far as the difference in red from 4-5 only adding a tile... but no extra damage... by comparison, when OML goes from 3 - 4 tiles added, the strength of each actually drops. So he only gains like 260 more damage... Phoenix's extra 460 damage does add up.

Having that extra tile is also important in the way the move plays with her purple. Cast her purple, you want as many strike tiles as possible. First, it pumps up cascade damage, but- more importantly- some red tiles will get matched away. You want as many tiles to remain as possible, and you want AT LEAST 3 to survive so that they can get a boost from her passive Purple power if you get a critical.

PeterGibbons316

jobob wrote:

Polares wrote:

I finally pulled my last PH cover, so I started hoarding so I can champ her and respec, mine is 5/3/5. But I have A LOT of doubts to which is her best build.

It looks like most people have her 3/5/5 (PvP Build?) or 5/4/4 (PvE build?), but I really think 5 in purple is mandatory so I might go from 3/5/5 to 5/5/3 depending who I am fighting. It is really annoying that going from 4 to 5 in red brings almost no use for the user (why attack tiles improve in number and strength and user strike tiles just improve in number ??????), and 4/5/4 doesn't look like a very good build.

5 purple is critical and the key to all her damage. 5* cascades are typically more damaging than the abilities. If you can get a red out first so there are some strike tiles... you can do 50k damage with the right board.

You're right, 4/5/4 doesn't give you much.

As far as the difference in red from 4-5 only adding a tile... but no extra damage... by comparison, when OML goes from 3 - 4 tiles added, the strength of each actually drops. So he only gains like 260 more damage... Phoenix's extra 460 damage does add up.

Having that extra tile is also important in the way the move plays with her purple. Cast her purple, you want as many strike tiles as possible. First, it pumps up cascade damage, but- more importantly- some red tiles will get matched away. You want as many tiles to remain as possible, and you want AT LEAST 3 to survive so that they can get a boost from her passive Purple power if you get a critical.

I run her at 4/5/4 more than anything else. I don't particularly like 5 red. I like to run her with SWitch, and double-fire red. If the first red puts out 4 strikes, and SWitch has a CD out, I can't fire red again without adding now four massive enemy strike tiles. So with 4 red I get the same damage - less benefit from strike tiles, but I can typically fire red more frequently with this build. I also rarely use health packs with her, so the 4th green helps boost her starting health.

I'll switch to 5/5/3 to heal up in PvE, or sometimes 5/4/4 for climbing in PvP without using health packs or on defense. Most people save her til last anyway, but there is nothing worse than assuming someone is running a Phx with 3/4 green only to have her rise immediately after killing her with match damage and then unleashing the Pheonix Force on you. IMO the only bad build for her is 5/3/5 - and even that isn't terrible if you are using GSBW or KK or IF or Rulk primarily to turn purple into something other than red.

jobob

I can see running 4 red so that you don't put 5 out (though, with SW... but I still don't see the point of 4 in green. Go 5, or go 3. You are only talking a difference of maybe 3,000 health... Which you would probably save anyway if you dropped it to 3 covers and added damage to red or purple. I will, on occasion, run 5/5/3 for max survivability.

PeterGibbons316

jobob wrote:

I can see running 4 red so that you don't put 5 out (though, with SW... but I still don't see the point of 4 in green. Go 5, or go 3. You are only talking a difference of maybe 3,000 health... Which you would probably save anyway if you dropped it to 3 covers and added damage to red or purple. I will, on occasion, run 5/5/3 for max survivability.

Well, if I determine that I want exactly 4 red for max damage with min tiles, that leaves 9 for purple/green. Obviously purple is going to be 5, which leaves 4 for green.

TxMoose

Level 5: Deals 8849 damage, 4 strength 416 Strike tiles. If 5+ friendly special tiles, 4 strength 1301 Black enemy Attack tiles.

does that include cds in 'special tiles'?

jobob

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

jobob wrote:

I can see running 4 red so that you don't put 5 out (though, with SW... but I still don't see the point of 4 in green. Go 5, or go 3. You are only talking a difference of maybe 3,000 health... Which you would probably save anyway if you dropped it to 3 covers and added damage to red or purple. I will, on occasion, run 5/5/3 for max survivability.

Well, if I determine that I want exactly 4 red for max damage with min tiles, that leaves 9 for purple/green. Obviously purple is going to be 5, which leaves 4 for green.

lol, yeah, I get that... Maybe I wasn't clear. I can see why you would want to run 4 red, and so you end up with an extra green as a byproduct. I was saying I didn't see a reason to intentionally build 4 green because you just really want 4 green.

Polares

Ok. I guess 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 will probably be my typical configs for her depending, if I want to go fast or rise my survavil chances. I guess for very tough battles 5/5/3 makes sense, even though you lose some punch in red...

I will play PH with OML and one of the problems I have with her red, is that I will just be able to fire it once, because that will create 4+2 strike tiles. So until I can fire purple and match some of those strikes I might be sitting in some unused red (it happens to me a lot specially in survival nodes that I can't fire red when I have enough mana because I also have black OML strikes on the board, etc.)

jobob wrote:

As far as the difference in red from 4-5 only adding a tile... but no extra damage... by comparison, when OML goes from 3 - 4 tiles added, the strength of each actually drops. So he only gains like 260 more damage... Phoenix's extra 460 damage does add up.

Red at 5 adds 416 to her strike tiles and 2000 to the enemies attack tiles (!!!!), how that adds up? The big difference is that OML black doesn't have any disadvantage, so it is adding one strike tile but the final damage added in total is just a bit more, like when going from 3 to 4, which is ok (this is also the power that transforms him).

I still don't agree with red at 5 making all disadvantages worse, this is some very bad design, getting more covers should always improve the power. If she would have more strike tiles, stronger strike tiles and more damage I could understand getting more disadvantages, because the advantages would be bigger than the disadvantages, but just for adding one strike tile? It doesn't make any sense. The logical thing would be that at 5 you win one strike tile and the enemy attack tiles do LESS damage.

TxMoose wrote:

Level 5: Deals 8849 damage, 4 strength 416 Strike tiles. If 5+ friendly special tiles, 4 strength 1301 Black enemy Attack tiles.

does that include cds in 'special tiles'?

Yes. It wasn't initially but they added that in some of the updates (if you check this thread you will see that basically all updates have made PH worse).

Crowl

Polares wrote:

I still don't agree with red at 5 making all disadvantages worse, this is some very bad design, getting more covers should always improve the power. If she would have more strike tiles, stronger strike tiles and more damage I could understand getting more disadvantages, because the advantages would be bigger than the disadvantages, but just for adding one strike tile? It doesn't make any sense. The logical thing would be that at 5 you win one strike tile and the enemy attack tiles do LESS damage.

Another way they could improve that power with more covers would be to increase that threshold where the enemy tiles are generated.

It does seem odd that they have actively made this character worse since release with the changes that have been made, it is not like OML has been nerfed or SS buffed after all.

Black Duke

Hey guys! My 2/5/5 Jean Grey will get her 13th cover from Shield Resupply in 5 days. Since I´m still uncertain if I should champion Phoenix, I would want to hear some opinions from players who has played her more often. What are JG´s pros and cons? Does she still stands her ground in the current 5* meta?

Thanks in advance!