Wondering how many of use are Stuck at 3 star level

Heartburn

DuckyV wrote:

smkspy wrote:

My favorite part of this game was the prologue. I wish they would invest in another multiple chaptered story like that where I can progress on building up 3 stars and even some 4s without having to go thru all the pve and pvp grind. Just another fun story based take my time on adventure that isn't dependent upon scheduling my life around the game to achieve decent progression and rewards.

May I suggest the console version?

How about an option to ditch the placement rewards to double the progression rewards, or just make the rewards scale better to the current state of the game.

smkspy

DuckyV wrote:

smkspy wrote:

My favorite part of this game was the prologue. I wish they would invest in another multiple chaptered story like that where I can progress on building up 3 stars and even some 4s without having to go thru all the pve and pvp grind. Just another fun story based take my time on adventure that isn't dependent upon scheduling my life around the game to achieve decent progression and rewards.

May I suggest the console version?

Why would I start over? That's even more wasted money.

I don't get the resistance people have to others suggesting new ideas to improve game play and make the experience more enjoyable for everyone.

I mean, seriously, why in the heck would anyone object to getting a new Dark Reign prologue the story. They could base it on secret invasion or civil war or whatever. Point being it'd be ssomething new and fun that wouldn't feel like a grind to achieve progression.

fmftint

New and fun doesn't sell roster slots, the devs have directly stated this

GurlBYE

The dude who mentioned those at the top wanting to stay there hit the nail on the head.


Those who want everyone after to fight for 2 years to 'catch-up' or be on competitive footing, don't want competitors.

You didn't work 2 years towards jean grey, hulkbuster or Iceman.

You worked towards what the game had to offer. Believing that because you've been there since the start means that you not only have a head start but demand everyone else follow the same path is flawed logic. it took you two years because the game has been around 2 years. The developers did not have in their minds 'well in 2016, those who started in 2014 should be 5 star players, while those starting in 2015 will be where those guys are in, hmm 2017 arbitrarily.

There wasn't a 4 star tier last year, there were 4 star characters. Just like there isn't a 5 star tier now but in a years time there will be.

if you truly believe that a player starting today should wait 2 years before entering the 5 star tier, you've got more faith in this match-3 games lifespan then is reasonable or historical.

World of warcraft players aren't looking at a decade of play before catching up to the top statistically.

I don't have a problem with the idea. just call it what it is and stop playing the work hard card. It's bull.
Somoene can put 24 hours into this game a day for a week and that wouldn't do much to their roster. The game has set rewards that are all based on luck and time.

GurlBYE

Omega Red wrote:

Can you see the paradox here? You want to advance and progress in the game, but you only want to face people at your own level. How are you supposed to improve if you don't want to challenge the guys who are at a superior level?

While being attacked by people at the same level and their score falling by the hundreds.
The criticisms by players in the 4 star tier who stopped playing pve because they were tired of characters boosted beyond natural levels to boost their levels.

You aren't even making points your kinda just saying things.

It'd be a horrible idea to face a team that takes you too long to hit because you literally will lose points from being in the battle, even in victory. Not even speaking of the most focal part of gameplay, the giant randomized board.
The pvp in this game is based off the idea of hitting fast and moving forward. The match making is meant to punish you for rising too far up by making players fight it out over limited resources. Hence and being the defacto way to get higher.

Dragon_Nexus

I'm happy hitting 1000 in PvP. Getting a 4* on nearly every PvP is a lot better than staring at "Get 1st place to get a 4*!" and thinking "Nope. Never happening." Or staring at the less-tha-1%-odds in an event token and sighing.

Though I'll grant you, looking at Enemy of the State and seeing I need to spend a whole week gathering points just for one legendary token is not something that excites me. If you can get one legendary token for a 3.5 day event, why do we not get two for a 7 day event?

Either way, yeah I'm trundling to a halt on my 3*s, there aren't meany left to level up and I only need 4 covers before they're all perfected (or 17 if I decide to make another Kamala Khan. Might not bother though since she'll be slightly less useful when I move onto levelling my 4*s). I'm already hitting the point where I save up tens of thousands of ISO because I don't know what to spend it on. Just waiting it out for now, I've got so many 1-4 covered 4*s that are essentially useless.

Unknown

Sadly that's how the game is designed, if you want to transition from 3==>4, you either have to play religiously for it or pay your way to 4* land. I don't think by playing casually/mid-casually you can achieve it, you can transition from 2==>3 playing in that way but is not gonna happen when making the transition to 4*.

Just because things have always being like that it doesn't mean they shouldn't change, I do hope devs will heavily ease the transition to 4* in a way that non-hardcore ftp players CAN get there. I suscribe to the idea that players who spend more effort in the game get rewarded in proportion to their effort, but that argument is pointless when we talk about 4* transition, given that the only way to get there is by heavy money expenditure or playing at a really hardcore level

HustyReaps

Just call it what it is and say that you want something for nothing. No time, no sweat, no money. Just gimme, gimme, gimme because I want it. Somebody else has it, so I deserve to have it, too. Only in Obama's America.

You nailed it, though, on the fact that those at the top don't want the competition. They are shaking in their boots over the threat of you in their queue. Pure terror. Night sweats.

Lame. Same old argument over and over. Either pay up to boost your roster, put more quality time into the game, or find another free game that strokes your bruised ego.

fmftint

HustyReaps wrote:

Just call it what it is and say that you want something for nothing. No time, no sweat, no money. Just gimme, gimme, gimme because I want it. Somebody else has it, so I deserve to have it, too. Only in Obama's America.

You nailed it, though, on the fact that those at the top don't want the competition. They are shaking in their boots over the threat of you in their queue. Pure terror. Night sweats.

Lame. Same old argument over and over. Either pay up to boost your roster, put more quality time into the game, or find another free game that strokes your bruised ego.

spatenfloot

I picture Slidecage as a Mafia Don.

Use guys is stuck? Wassamatta wit yoots dese days, huh?

Seantw05

Omega Red wrote:

Daiches wrote:

Except I have horrible, horrible pull luck, so I only get covers from winning PVEs. And ISO flow is sooooooooooo slow

Your luck is not set in stone to be terrible for eternity. It's statements like these that make me think that "stuck" players either aren't playing that much or don't know how to play optimally. Tokens eventually deliver a few four star covers and the iso flow is not that bad, but you have to play the game, earn those tokens, win that iso. The more casual you play, the less you get and the slower your progression.

Daiches wrote:

I'm having a hard time getting the 4* that are reasonably covered to useable levels without neglecting my 3*s

Then this means you haven't completed your three star transition, which implies that your four star transition should be slow.

Daiches finishes t2-10 every single pve. He knows what he's doing

GurlBYE

OJSP wrote:

I quoted these sentences, as they kinda contradict each other (and they were in a sequence).
I'll just emphasize on the underlined words, as I agree with those an i'll expand a bit more.
Between Tuesday and Thursday's Lightning Rounds, we can gain quite a lot, actually. Granted, it's difficult to participate in most of them due to the timing or even compete in them (if our roster is weaker compared to everyone else's). But, if we have the time, roster and luck.. we can get a lot of iso and the tokens can give us 4*s. (I've found the Heroic tokens have better odds than the Lightning Round tokens, but I've got them from both in the past few weeks)

Most people in lightning rounds do it for iso.
So on a technicality. Sure their roster can potentially be leveled higher. But thats not the topic at hand.

Lightning round placement is even more difficult then usual placement because it isn't even bracketed. So once again those rewards and potential 4 stars right their out of reach of the players who started this thread. Because a truck runs through and makes it to the top faster then the aforementioned 3 star players can.
100 out of 100,000 receive a heroic token.


The only 'work' involved that people are talking about is time.
Not time as in effort, but the literal passage of the lifespan of the game.

The argument falls on deaf ears though, I bend i stretch I pull and try to see it from other sides, but work harder literally isn't an argument.

Take for example the shaking in boots comment. No not fear, not my roster will trash yours kinda ****. it's evident by the thread no one is going for ego here.
The competition for rewards. No one's strategies in this game are even really unique enough to warrant holding any sort of status over.

In fact even pandering to that level of argument is insulting to the mind.

"hey how about a better distribution of awards, like maybe move the 3 star down from 800 to 600 or so. They don't have the same power and thats no longer the equilibrium point for 2 star players"

"work harder, why do you want everything given to you. I had to make it to 800 when 2 stars were strongest and there was literally no tier above it. Use DDQ and get over it"

Daiches

Orion wrote:

You say that you have the 3*s covered, but are they level 166? To reliably reach 1000 in PvP with a 3* roster, you have to be able to use 3 boosted 3*s that are at least level 150. All of my 3*s are at least level 140, and only a handful of them are under 150. That's especially useful in an event like this SG PvP, where the boosted 3*s aren't the top tier.

As Sean said:
I have 10 166, multiple 140s, rest 120. I have gotten 1k in every PVP in the last two seasons. I just can't progress to the next tier because I get the wrong covers and ISO comes too slow.

Ebolamonkey84

GurlBYE wrote:

"hey how about a better distribution of awards, like maybe move the 3 star down from 800 to 600 or so. They don't have the same power and thats no longer the equilibrium point for 2 star players"

"work harder, why do you want everything given to you. I had to make it to 800 when 2 stars were strongest and there was literally no tier above it. Use DDQ and get over it"

In the history of the game, the 3* progression reward in PVP has never been attainable by a 2 star player, so you chose a bad example here. Back when I was a 2* player, the 3* cover was actually at 1100, which was impossible.

Born2DieNPvP

DuckyV wrote:

If you aren't willing to put in work then you aren't going to transition. It's as simple as that. Lots of people hit 1k with the boosted 3*s. Do they have to hop to get there? Most of the time, yes. Again, they are putting in effort to actually transition. If you don't want to spend HP to get to the targeted progression in PvP and you don't want to play PvE, then you are going to be stuck in 3* land. It's as simple as that.

This is why I lose to u on MPQ but absolutely destroy u on twitch based fps.

JamesV

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

In the history of the game, the 3* progression reward in PVP has never been attainable by a 2 star player, so you chose a bad example here. Back when I was a 2* player, the 3* cover was actually at 1100, which was impossible.

I remember looking at that when I was just starting my 3* transition and thinking how insanely impossible that was and how anyone could even possible get that and how nonsensical it was to have that reward that high.

JamesV

I think the idea that this game has end-game content is pretty incorrect and I think it informs a lot of the debate that goes on in these kind of threads. Games that have end-game content actively have a progression for the player that challenges them on their level and pushes them up the chain -- while providing accurate rewards. But MPQ isn't WoW or a progression based game.

It is basically a constant Street Fighter tournament where in order for the top people to get the rewards that they need they have to push down on the people beneath them -- in many cases stopping them from getting the rewards they need. This destroys the notion of progression and end-game content. This creates frustration in the lower levels because progressing through the tiers isn't rewarding, it becomes a slog and in turn it belittles the length of time that the higher end has played.

And this isn't just a PVP problem, though PVP is where it is the most directly observed. The idea that PVE every other week is specifically geared towards 4* content and that every PVE requires a 4* star directly promotes the notion that this is not a game wherein you are expected to progress through levels until you reach the end-game content. For comparison, let's say that each star is the equivalent of a character level in a progression based game. I can think of no dungeon in any game that rewards say level 30 (3*) rewards but requires a level 40 (4*) to be part of the party.

I mean the game hints at having some structure (oh 1* leads to 2*, etc), but the actual in-game reality is much to blurred. The stars -- we've been told -- represent rarity but that rarity is actually power. And I think your background determines how you view that. If you view it from more of an MMO background that has notions of end-game content and level progression, it's a structure of progression. But if you view it from more of say a CCG background, they just represent rarity so of course I need the rare cards to be able to compete at high levels.

TL;DR: IMO, there is no end-game content or clear progression content in MPQ. And the mixed competing systems of fighting games, RPG leveling and CCG collectibility is what fuels these threads.

GurlBYE

JamesV wrote:

I think the idea that this game has end-game content is pretty incorrect and I think it informs a lot of the debate that goes on in these kind of threads. Games that have end-game content actively have a progression for the player that challenges them on their level and pushes them up the chain -- while providing accurate rewards. But MPQ isn't WoW or a progression based game.

It is basically a constant Street Fighter tournament where in order for the top people to get the rewards that they need they have to push down on the people beneath them -- in many cases stopping them from getting the rewards they need. This destroys the notion of progression and end-game content. This creates frustration in the lower levels because progressing through the tiers isn't rewarding, it becomes a slog and in turn it belittles the length of time that the higher end has played.

And this isn't just a PVP problem, though PVP is where it is the most directly observed. The idea that PVE every other week is specifically geared towards 4* content and that every PVE requires a 4* star directly promotes the notion that this is not a game wherein you are expected to progress through levels until you reach the end-game content. For comparison, let's say that each star is the equivalent of a character level in a progression based game. I can think of no dungeon in any game that rewards say level 30 (3*) rewards but requires a level 40 (4*) to be part of the party.

I mean the game hints at having some structure (oh 1* leads to 2*, etc), but the actual in-game reality is much to blurred. The stars -- we've been told -- represent rarity but that rarity is actually power. And I think your background determines how you view that. If you view it from more of an MMO background that has notions of end-game content and level progression, it's a structure of progression. But if you view it from more of say a CCG background, they just represent rarity so of course I need the rare cards to be able to compete at high levels.

TL;DR: IMO, there is no end-game content or clear progression content in MPQ. And the mixed competing systems of fighting games, RPG leveling and CCG collectibility is what fuels these threads.

I play fighting games, thats the least accurate comparison. Literally night and day.

If I play street fighter, it's all in strategy. There's no seperate reward for number of wins or losses outside of pro tournaments for money, even then you throw in money and train enough on your on the results are in your control.
There are character match ups, but it won't be say, yelena vs Silver Surfer.
In street fighter or any other fighter, we're all at an equal playing field. If you've been playing for 10 years, you don't start the match hitting harder with 10 times the health. You come with a mindset and experience but the same resources.

I don't disagree with your points about trading cards etc, just kinda thrown way off by the comparison to fighters.

The progress like you said isn't set in stone but it's hinted all over the game, from the characters power, level caps, the pves, the characters power within those star levels (having a common iron man that can reach level 270 and a rare jean grey that has stronger skills that can also reach 270, fits the rarity idea a bit better to me).

Threads like these come because the message isn't translated clearly everywhere. If people could just put work into whoever they want and just deal with whomever they happened to collect, I kinda think there'd be less expectation of advancement along the star spectrum. While I can find hints of the TCG aspects, the game seems to fight it at every turn.

Like FF pulls off the TCG. I get who I can, or who I like, train them up to the same level as others and we fight. Some rarer characters have stronger abilities but I can build a unique team that can still pull in wins.

its still an interesting discussion none the less.

Der_Lex

This game has always had a 'have' versus 'have not' situation, even before 4* became a thing. In the early days, first the people with maxed Ragnarok were the top tier players, then everyone with 5 blue in Spidey, and then everyone with maxed Sentry. The idea that people who have been playing from the start have had it so much easier (remember, back then there was no DDQ, the only way to get 2* characters was as progression or placement rewards, and pvE's weren't even a weekly thing) is as silly as the idea that all people who want changes in the reward system are freeloaders or that everyone with a good roster must be someone with no life or way too much disposable income.

A key factor in a F2P game like this is player investment, which can be either time or money. Players need to feel that they get good returns for what they invest, and right now that is arguably only true for the lowest tier and highest tier players, although the fact that top tier rewards are almost completely random these days will cause frustration in the latter group as well (I've already heard of one player who quit the game after pulling only a single 5* from 40(!) legendaries).

The current placement reward system has not kept up with the evolution of the game and its playerbase and desperately needs an overhaul. The speed of 2-3* and 3-4* progression is glacial right now, and really needs a boost. On the other hand, it's okay for the people who invest the most effort/money* into the game to have an advantage over the rest, and I'm not sure more chances to get a type of token that, for the really advanced rosters, has a 10-15% chance of giving you something useful is enough on that front either.

We'll have to see what the 'new gameplay feature' turns out to be. DDQ was a game-changer as well in a positive way, hopefully they can replicate its success.


* I'm going for 'effort' here instead of time because in MPQ it definitely is possible to work smart instead of work hard. What the best way to play is really depends on your roster and at what point in the game you are, but the only thing that really requires a big time investment is PvE, and most notably the end grind.

JamesV

GurlBYE wrote:

I play fighting games, thats the least accurate comparison. Literally night and day.

If I play street fighter, it's all in strategy. There's no seperate reward for number of wins or losses outside of pro tournaments for money, even then you throw in money and train enough on your on the results are in your control.
There are character match ups, but it won't be say, yelena vs Silver Surfer.
In street fighter or any other fighter, we're all at an equal playing field. If you've been playing for 10 years, you don't start the match hitting harder with 10 times the health. You come with a mindset and experience but the same resources.

Sorry I didn't make that point as clear I should have. Tournament was really the wrong word I wanted to use there. Structurally and gameplay wise yeah they are completely different. I was thinking more from the player base perspective. Going to an arcade and playing Street Fighter, you have no control or say over who you are facing, there's no balance based on skill, etc. You play who puts the quarter in. That's fundamentally different than something like an MMORPG with actual end-game and gated by level content. (Not sure if that makes it any clearer, but it makes sense in my head).

GurlBYE wrote:

The progress like you said isn't set in stone but it's hinted all over the game, from the characters power, level caps, the pves, the characters power within those star levels (having a common iron man that can reach level 270 and a rare jean grey that has stronger skills that can also reach 270, fits the rarity idea a bit better to me).

Threads like these come because the message isn't translated clearly everywhere. If people could just put work into whoever they want and just deal with whomever they happened to collect, I kinda think there'd be less expectation of advancement along the star spectrum. While I can find hints of the TCG aspects, the game seems to fight it at every turn.

I agree that its the lack of clarity and game fighting itself that creates this.

I am sympathetic to the long term players (I'm on Day 630, I have several cover maxed 4*, all but 2 cover maxed 3*, etc) so I understand the feeling of all of a sudden feeling like all of that time/work/money is now trivialized. But on the other hand, I have friends who started playing a few months ago (around Ultron) and are in this place where the transitioning out of the 2* isn't just an issue of time/work, it's an issue of fun. I'm dying for ISO and they can't get covers fast enough to use the stockpile they have. They play and still have some fun, but it's obviously less fun for them when (like you talked about) you can't use characters you like or can't get them. Their situation reminds me a lot of last year when they were doing the vaulting of characters.