Wondering how many of use are Stuck at 3 star level

SnagglePuss

If you haven't leveled your roster then do so and forget about PvE.
1k PvP, after a few tries becomes easier and you don't need to spend HP/spend very little once you work out the system.

Back to PvE... sure it get's a little harder but unless you are pushing for Top 10 then it's not that difficult to rank and get a cover. There isn't even anything left in PvE apart from new releases. You're never going to hit top 2, you have most of the covers so you might as well go all in for PvP.

Unknown

I gotta say the same- the "work for it" mantra is fine for grinding to make it faster to transition- but it shouldn't be impossible to advance without grinding for 5 hours a day. And the .5% chance of hitting 4* from heroic and event tokens basically qualifies as impossible.

I don't think it's their intention to force people into being "stuck" in 3* land unless they spend $$ on a regular basis- I think they just haven't hit the balance for making that transition.

When they made the 3* DDQ the best part was it was possible to achieve with low covered 3* characters. the 4* DDQ does not. I'd garner to say you need at least 7-8 covers and be fully leveled to have a shot at it. I was in a similar place before that point trying to build up 3* characters. I had a huge stockpile of ISO with no characters to put it into and at that point placing high enough to get top 100 in a PVP or PVE Was a grind for me. I was losing faith. And then DDQ made it possible and I was re-hooked into building my 3* characters because it felt attainable all of a sudden.

Now I'm to the point where I have 100K ISO stocked up again and occasionally level up some of the buffed 3* characters I haven't bothered to move past 120 or so. I have about 13 3* characters at 166 and the rest of them are with a couple exceptions fully covered just not leveled.

I wouldn't care if there were more 3* characters coming out- I could still have fun as a casual player. But with every new character in the last like 5-6 months being 4* or 5* which are so slow to attain, it's making me lose faith again.

Maybe the new game play feature being discussed will help.

BlackSheep101

I get a legendary token near the end of every pve. I need anything that comes out of those, so those are a totally worthwhile target for me. My most recent from DPvMPQ yielded Ant Man . I got a HB today for reaching 1k in the R&G event. Falcap and Devil Dino are waiting to be rostered, and some time next month I will get 3 more DD covers for reaching 365 days played.

I anticipate getting the JG from Cover Squirrel. With the above Ant Man cover, I have a realistic shot at winning his rotation in DDQ.

The thing that's slowing down my 4* transition the most is the rate at which new characters are released. All these new characters dilute my chances of legendary tokens yielding covers on the same characters, which I need to make them useful. The fast release rate also lengthens the amount of time between appearances of specific characters as progression rewards. Case in point, the 4* reward in this season's shield sim is Cyclops. I don't even have one cover for him, so grinding out 2000 points will only net me another character that will sit on my roster unused except as an essential in pve.

firethorne

I absolutely feel like my progress has slowed to a crawl. 1000 isn't "easy" as so many are claiming. I just skipped a 270 Hulkbuster/166 Iron First, it was replaced by a 270 Hulkbuster/350 Jean Grey. Sorry if I'm failing to understand how constant fights where the opponents are 100 levels above mine are easy. It must be my fault.

As for the work for it, I have a job. If I'm going to work, I'm going to work on work. This is a **** match 3 game. It shouldn't be a soul sucking demoralizing slog. The game used to be fun. It lost that along the way somewhere.

Orion

firethorne wrote:

I absolutely feel like my progress has slowed to a crawl. 1000 isn't "easy" as so many are claiming. I just skipped a 270 Hulkbuster/166 Iron First, it was replaced by a 270 Hulkbuster/350 Jean Grey. Sorry if I'm failing to understand how constant fights where the opponents are 100 levels above mine are easy. It must be my fault.

As for the work for it, I have a job. If I'm going to work, I'm going to work on work. This is a tinykitty match 3 game. It shouldn't be a soul sucking demoralizing slog. The game used to be fun. It lost that along the way somewhere.

Then skip that team too until you find one you can beat. It's not that hard. There will almost always be teams worth decent points that you can beat. I hit 1k in every PvP last season without using a single 4* character. Most of the time it only required 1 3-hour shield. Sometimes it required an 8-hour as well, but you get all of the hp back with progression and placement awards.

SangFroid

Honestly I don't want to minimize the struggle but building a 3* roster these days is not that hard. Invest your ISO into the solid 3* and you will be able to hit the 1K mark pretty much everytime either for free or for 75hp. That gets you 3 4*per week from PVP and you can easily hit the PVE throughout the week to pick up the Legendary Token and build up ISO to level your roster.

If you are serious about doing this as easily as possible you should be reading Hayek's guide under MPQ Tips and Guides!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33283


This is coming from someone well into F2P 4* transition who has only bought 2 slots with real money (note please support the game, I have spent money in the game to support the game just never used the HP I bought)

SangFroid

BlackSheep101

firethorne wrote:

I just skipped a 270 Hulkbuster/166 Iron First, it was replaced by a 270 Hulkbuster/350 Jean Grey. Sorry if I'm failing to understand how constant fights where the opponents are 100 levels above mine are easy. It must be my fault.

People play fistbuster because it's fast, not because it's unbeatable on defense. Down IF quickly and HB slows way down. Down HB and the rest is just mop up. Especially in an event where you can have a featured character that can take a repulsor fist to the face, match yellow and be back at full health, HB should not be scaring you away. Use AP boosts to accelerate whatever you're trying to do. The 2 color ones only cost 200 iso for five.

firethorne

Orion wrote:

firethorne wrote:

I absolutely feel like my progress has slowed to a crawl. 1000 isn't "easy" as so many are claiming. I just skipped a 270 Hulkbuster/166 Iron First, it was replaced by a 270 Hulkbuster/350 Jean Grey. Sorry if I'm failing to understand how constant fights where the opponents are 100 levels above mine are easy. It must be my fault.

As for the work for it, I have a job. If I'm going to work, I'm going to work on work. This is a tinykitty match 3 game. It shouldn't be a soul sucking demoralizing slog. The game used to be fun. It lost that along the way somewhere.

Then skip that team too until you find one you can beat. It's not that hard.

I just skipped 15 in a row. 12 had 350s.

The other three were all the same guy, (which in itself is **** that I'm wasting ISO to get the same matches over and over). He only had non-boosted 270s. Not a single match where it would be even footing, 3*s vs 3*s.

BlackSheep101

When I see an "even footing" match up late in an event, I skip it because it's worth 20 points.

Unknown

firethorne wrote:

Orion wrote:

firethorne wrote:

I absolutely feel like my progress has slowed to a crawl. 1000 isn't "easy" as so many are claiming. I just skipped a 270 Hulkbuster/166 Iron First, it was replaced by a 270 Hulkbuster/350 Jean Grey. Sorry if I'm failing to understand how constant fights where the opponents are 100 levels above mine are easy. It must be my fault.

As for the work for it, I have a job. If I'm going to work, I'm going to work on work. This is a tinykitty match 3 game. It shouldn't be a soul sucking demoralizing slog. The game used to be fun. It lost that along the way somewhere.

Then skip that team too until you find one you can beat. It's not that hard.

I just skipped 15 in a row. 12 had 350s.

The other three were all the same guy, (which in itself is tinykitty that I'm wasting ISO to get the same matches over and over). He only had non-boosted 270s. Not a single match where it would be even footing, 3*s vs 3*s.

I agree that it's not "easy". I'm a free player in the early 4* transition too, and I get to 1000 1/4-1/3 of the time. Sometimes what you described just happens and you're screwed. One option is to shield up, and wait for the other players to move their points around so you have different targets. Or just cut your losses and save the HP you earned by getting that high for the next PvP.

firethorne

BlackSheep101 wrote:

When I see an "even footing" match up late in an event, I skip it because it's worth 20 points.

Fair point. Yet another problem with the overall fun of the game.

Unknown

I accidentally opened this site from my bookmarks today and came to this thread (stopped visiting the site after anniversary ended).

But in short. The people at the top of the ladder in this game will always keep clamoring the "work for it" / "put in the effort" line because what it comes down is that the more people at the bottom, the easier time they have progressing, because they have tons of fodder to blow through instead of having to play and "compete". It also means more people to fill PvE brackets so they won't have to work as hard themselves. This is the unspoken subtext that they mean when they keep hammering that point over and over again.

I started this game pretty early on, but late enough that I was stuck behind a lot of people. Back then, 1* progression took a very long time (no 1* or 2* rewards from matches in PvP, so entirely reliant on event tokens and grinding through prologue with an inadequate roster for the vastly OP enemies - playing, and usually losing the same matches 15-20 times for a single cover). My 2* progress also took a long time (first 2*'s were Moonstone and Storm that I was able to fully cover). Eventually I was able to fill out with 2Thor and MNMags. OBW I had a lot of trouble getting covers for, but eventually completed after buying several covers (although in typical MPQ fashion they nerfed her before too long). This was still before PvP match-covers. You had to actually place back then to earn 2* covers, and that was a massive grind. The grind coming from 2*-3* was exponentially worse playing against fully leveled 3*'s (absurd amounts of shield hopping, and time management throughout the day to be able to place). 3*'s actually were something of a deterrent back then, so there was a brief period that they made the game actually playable, then they implemented death brackets to punish those of us who'd grinded like hell to get to the top to be able to play casually again. The older vets didn't understand what we were complaining about, as it didn't mesh with their experience (your MMR will always be much lower if you don't have to make up ground by winning more matches).

The unrelenting, permanent amount of grind required to progress at all made me quit mid-last year. I came back for DDP, and started playing again, occasionally opting for a PvE or PvP. Of course this meant that I started getting put in progressively tougher brackets so my measly 3* roster became insufficient against fully covered 4*'s for placement. It also meant I missed the 4* bandwagon. I had some covers for XF and IW through my prior wins and token pulls, but even now my 4* roster is pretty useless outside IW (XF not fully covered, HB missing red covers, Carnage almost usable, have the beginnings of a DD), and just taking up space for the most part (beyond being featured).

People keep saying grind harder as a solution anytime someone complains (as a counterpoint, I ALWAYS advocated for making rewards more obtainable by everyone, not just the top end or bottom end), but that's not a good solution. The people advocating this are almost exclusively people who've been playing so long they have maxed rosters, and established / reliable shield hop groups that they can count on to be able to earn new covers without much work, or they represent people who've joined more recently, seen the benefits of people like me and other vets who've complained enough to cause changes in the game (making 1*/2* easier - they replaced bagman with Marvel, and added cover drops in PvP matches, getting DPD to begin with, moving to 8 hr refreshes from 2-3 hr or insane rubberbanding, lowering progression points needed for rewards in PvE/ PvP, giving out higher placement rewards), and aren't yet into burn-out mode from grinding like hell to advance. I should note they're still stingy with their rewards, as Anniversary proved before the unilateral outcry about how bad it was forced them to make amends (although they still didn't bring back the 20-player LR's many were looking forward to).

But really, every time someone makes that same tired argument, what they're really saying is "I want an easy, stress free way to stay at the top so it should be obscenely hard for anyone below me to get anywhere even remotely close to my roster. In fact, I much prefer being able to constantly beat down people below me to feel better about myself, despite the fact that time and roster strength replace skill in this game. I prefer it in lieu of the devs actually fixing core mechanics (like a game parading as a casual/ semi-casual being in reality a cutthroat competitive slog [unless you're at the top], or reward structures that only reward the top 1% of players, or require an obscene amount of grind to keep progressing - unless you're already at the top). The game would be a lot healthier if progression were unlinked from competitive elements of the game so players could earn new heroes and had some other trophies to lord over the plebs, preferably ones that were legitimately related to competitive skill (high end rosters don't actually represent this, they way the people at the top keep trying to pretend - at least beyond a baseline average).

The reality is that it's not a very good life decision to devote obscene amounts of time to playing a video game on a regular basis, when you could spend that time on more productive pursuits, whether athletics, the arts, work, family, etc.. The people at the top in this game understand this, and are happy to see everyone else work / grind twice as hard for no reward to generate points for them to win in PvP, or maintain ratios of players who don't win rewards in PvE so that they have an easier time. This is the reality. They can lie all they want about it being a case of "working harder / playing smarter" and all those common trickle-down economics talking points, but that's what it really comes down to. I've been on both sides of the fence over the ~2 years I've played this game on and off. There've been many players come and go (including very influential vets) who've pushed the devs to make their systems more friendly across the board so that the game is more of a game and less of a competitive grind-fest. Sometimes they've listened (when there's been a large enough negative outcry, as with anniversary), but usually they simply shuffle things around and say "problem solved", and they're able to do this because there's a large enough base of dedicated players who're already at the top, and want to stay that way.

They're scared of alternatives, like a system where progression occurs naturally across the tiers without insane amounts of dedication or grind to catch up to the top 1%, and where the rewards of placing well aren't required for progression (or severely hindering progression if you don't get them). They're scared of a system where collecting and leveling characters is actually fun, and where the competitive elements don't reward or hinder you in any meaningful way and require real skill beyond roster strength / alliance coordination / playing at the right times. This is what they're all really saying. They just want to keep saying "I'm better than you, because the deck is stacked against you being able to actually compete against me like you would in any honest, legitimate competition".

dr tinykittylove

The most important element of building a 4* roster, shockingly, is building a strong 3* roster. Inconceivable, I know.

Seriously, what's worked best for me is having all my 3*s up and running - my featured 3* is always a cornerstone of my team. It does damage! It tanks! It put people with loaners off! ISO-up one and and get a 4* cover free! Call today!

Even for supposed low-tier 3*s, they can put in a lot of work or at the very least delay attackers until you can rush through your match and shield. People keep talking about saving iso for their 4*s, but if you're not getting the 4*s the iso doesn't earn interest anyway. My 3*s all earn their iso-worth back in covers for me and I like it that way.

fmftint

That's just not true, more people at the bottom mean easier progress at the top, NO ONE at the top ever see people at the bottom

udonomefoo

I have all but Rags covered and all optimal except for one green blade, one black hulk and one red daredevil. Only 5 of them are maxed, but most are 140. Since I rostered SS & OML my progress to 1k has been a lot harder. I can still do it, but it's not fun anymore.

I never see any teams with a loaner anymore, and almost never see any teams that are less than at least maxed 3s if not maxed 4s. I've noticed too that the teams that are hitting me are significantly higher, which makes sense because the basis for the mmr now is that you play against other teams that are "on your level".

I'm thinking about selling the 5*s, which totally blows. I'll stick it out for a while longer, but it feels like it's coming. Worst part is, I don't even know for sure if that will change anything.

Orion

You say that you have the 3*s covered, but are they level 166? To reliably reach 1000 in PvP with a 3* roster, you have to be able to use 3 boosted 3*s that are at least level 150. All of my 3*s are at least level 140, and only a handful of them are under 150. That's especially useful in an event like this SG PvP, where the boosted 3*s aren't the top tier.

Tilesmasher

The problem I have is when you play for hours a day AND spend money, and you still are stuck in the early stages of the 3 to 4 transition.. same as you were 6 months ago.

It's not "put in the work or pay" it's just "pay pay pay pay"

Omega Red

Daiches wrote:

Except I have horrible, horrible pull luck, so I only get covers from winning PVEs. And ISO flow is sooooooooooo slow

Your luck is not set in stone to be terrible for eternity. It's statements like these that make me think that "stuck" players either aren't playing that much or don't know how to play optimally. Tokens eventually deliver a few four star covers and the iso flow is not that bad, but you have to play the game, earn those tokens, win that iso. The more casual you play, the less you get and the slower your progression.

Daiches wrote:

I'm having a hard time getting the 4* that are reasonably covered to useable levels without neglecting my 3*s

Then this means you haven't completed your three star transition, which implies that your four star transition should be slow.

firethorne

Even boosted to 240, Punisher, Storm, or Magneto don't do great against match after match of this.

And even if Ii manage, it doesn't account for the slew of teams just like it who have killed punisher and mags in the time it takes unshielded to take down teams 100 levels above. The bottom line is this simply isn't fun.

Omega Red

firethorne wrote:

Orion wrote:

firethorne wrote:

I absolutely feel like my progress has slowed to a crawl. 1000 isn't "easy" as so many are claiming. I just skipped a 270 Hulkbuster/166 Iron First, it was replaced by a 270 Hulkbuster/350 Jean Grey. Sorry if I'm failing to understand how constant fights where the opponents are 100 levels above mine are easy. It must be my fault.

As for the work for it, I have a job. If I'm going to work, I'm going to work on work. This is a tinykitty match 3 game. It shouldn't be a soul sucking demoralizing slog. The game used to be fun. It lost that along the way somewhere.

Then skip that team too until you find one you can beat. It's not that hard.

I just skipped 15 in a row. 12 had 350s.

The other three were all the same guy, (which in itself is tinykitty that I'm wasting ISO to get the same matches over and over). He only had non-boosted 270s. Not a single match where it would be even footing, 3*s vs 3*s.

Can you see the paradox here? You want to advance and progress in the game, but you only want to face people at your own level. How are you supposed to improve if you don't want to challenge the guys who are at a superior level?