***** Silver Surfer (Skyrider) *****

Polares

He is now a much better 5, but I still think that Devs were a bit undecided of what role they wanted for him while doing the buff. He can be a battery, but not a great battery, his powers are still too expensive. It can be an offensive char, but not a great one, not strong enough. It can also be a tank, with the healing, etc. but not a great one.

As a battery his powers are still a bit to expensive. 9 AP for his blue is ok, but the problem is that it is still generating charged tiles, so you need to match them before you get the AP, and they can always be matched by the AI. And even though you can select one tile, this is just for the color, this tile might not be transformed, so all tiles might end up in hard to match positions. Then black is still too expensive to act as a battery. 12AP is still too much for that, and now it just produces 15AP instead of 20. If we compare this to great batteries like IM, switch, IF, Rhulk, etc. the cost of their powers is much smaller and the amount of AP you get much higher.

Then as an offensive char, his red is much better but it is still far from other similar costed powers like GG black or PH red. Black has been improved a lot in this regard, the final damage it is big. But again 8k is still far away from the 16k+ powers of other 5s for that cost.

As a tank, his blue is now cheaper but it heals less, and it is the power that you might have at 3, so it is hard for him to be as good as OML or Hulk in this category.

I think specially black power now is a bit like Cap's yellow (even thoug this one is worse), it tries to do too many things without doing any of those greatly. It gets AP and it also does damage, but for 12AP other 5s are doing double the damage or more. An for getting AP it would have been much better if it was much cheaper.

So, he is much much better char, he is far from bad now, he might be better than Hulk / BW, and of course Cap, who is now the clear worst 5 there is by a far margin. He is now worth the iso BUT he is still a character that tries to do too many things without doing any of those great. So for me it was a good buff, but not something like the IM40 buff, I think It might been much better if they assigned a role to him to fill.

Crowl

It would have been better if they had given red more damage rather than tacking it onto black and made black just a battery at a much lower cost, something in the 6-7 ap range seems more than reasonable for 15 random ap.

Vhailorx

The entire concept of black is wrong. A 4- or 5- match power is only going to be cast more than once in very long games. It should be devastating with a single cast. A small ap generating power should be A 2- or 3- match power.

Either singularity should be a cheap battery power that does small damage (say 8 ap, for 2x 2-turn black holes that each generate 3ap a round and deal 3-5k. That would be a dangerous power, making it hard to keep special tiles out against SS, and generating lots of ap (but randomly over several turns so it's not devastating).

Or it should be a devstating world ender. Say 13 or 14 ap, for a 3 turn singularity that destroys 8-12 tiles each turn and collapses for 16k aoe damage.

Demi is trying to split the difference, and as is generally the case with grab-bag-of-stuff powers in this game, the results are poor.

His other two powers are solid now (though red could use a bit more damage or a few more charged tiles. They still overvalue charged tiles). Fixing the black is really all he needs.

TxMoose

well, when a black hole collapses, shouldn't that thematically be an aoe? it'll damage everyone

notamutant

People need to remember you can't consider a character in a vacuum. Yes, SS still isn't incredible, but he is now an awesome teammate for BB. Pretty much guaranteed to always have BBs 5k damage a turn activate once it gets rolling with SS creating charged tiles. With other teammates, it might only work half the time, which means giving up that 5k free damage a turn. Throughout a match, that could mean anywhere from 25-50k damage extra by having these two as teammates. That is incredibly hard to calculate since it is somewhat random and it isn't a direct skill description since they gain this advantage together.

Polares

notamutant wrote:

People need to remember you can't consider a character in a vacuum. Yes, SS still isn't incredible, but he is now an awesome teammate for BB. Pretty much guaranteed to always have BBs 5k damage a turn activate once it gets rolling with SS creating charged tiles. With other teammates, it might only work half the time, which means giving up that 5k free damage a turn. Throughout a match, that could mean anywhere from 25-50k damage extra by having these two as teammates. That is incredibly hard to calculate since it is somewhat random and it isn't a direct skill description since they gain this advantage together.

It is true, a pity most of us won't have a champed BB in a year Even IM, Spidey and SS can be a deadly team now, with IM doing full damage with his red, but almost all of us are still very far from champing IM.

The problem is that his teammates for most people are going to be OML, PH and maybe Spidey, and none of those benefit that much from charged tiles or any of the other SS powers. If 4hor powers were not in the same colors than SS they could go together when she was buffed but not like this.


I agree with the sentiment that Singularity should be AoE, and for that cost (and time to wait) it is very reasonable, 8k AoE is not that strong.

TxMoose

not sure if this is typical, but played lots of matches in fist bump and played lots of leveled OMLs and SSs. and I typically took more damage against SSs. especially if they got black rolling. my closest wipe was to a SS. that one took 3 health packs and I only used like 6 climbing from 0 to 1100s. If I can ever finish covering him and oml, I don't think i'll hesitate champing him. at least i'll consider it more now.

Polares

TxMoose wrote:

not sure if this is typical, but played lots of matches in fist bump and played lots of leveled OMLs and SSs. and I typically took more damage against SSs. especially if they got black rolling. my closest wipe was to a SS. that one took 3 health packs and I only used like 6 climbing from 0 to 1100s. If I can ever finish covering him and oml, I don't think i'll hesitate champing him. at least i'll consider it more now.

He is not super dangerous, but he is very hard to deny 7AP for his red and almost always fires one blue too. But his 'dangerousness' depends a lot with who you play, if you use OML, he is not dangerous at all, you will easily self heal that, but if you use 4s or GG or IM it can annoy you a bit more.

He is decent now, but still lacks a bit of push.

PS: Nice touch that it is probably a bug, Singularity remains in the board after SS dies, and when it reaches 0 it does the 8k damage.

TxMoose

should singularity process when he's sent airborne? I figured no, but he just did. wondering if its intended or not.

spectator

singularity acts independently from silver surfer once its on the board. You can kill surfer and it will still keep counting down

Blahahah

I find it funny. I mean it makes sense that if he died a black hole wouldn't suddenly disappear

sambrookjm

Silver Surfer is the required 5-star in the latest PvE.  I've been using him with 4-star Star Lord and Scarlet Witch, mainly to make the Brute's tiles area overwritten with Star Lord's Purple or zapped with Scarlet Witch's Green (Yes, I changed her to 3/5/5 for this fight so Hex Bolt could take out Count Down tiles.)  In any event, I had a huge trove of black AP thanks to RNG and Star Lord's countdowns, and decided to try putting two of the Black Holes next to each other.  Sure enough, one of them destroyed the other.  Is this how the Black Holes are supposed to work?

hopper1979

Black Hole can now be destroyed it was changed with his update.  Watch match 4s they will destroy it as well, I honestly cannot remember is tiles destroying powers effect it I do not run him on those kinds of teams.  It does stay on the board if SS dies though which is nice.  Just don't put your Black Holes next to each other and you are all set.

Rick_OShay

As has been stated elsewhere, SS is now a good partner for Gambit. Use SS blue to charge tiles of your choice, Gambit red does good damage and collects the 6AP from them. I brought along 5SL as well, since I needed a yellow-green user, plus the charged tiles from SL yellow. Fun team and actually pretty efficient in the SS essential node. BB was obvious and worked well too, but the charged tile colors is quite random unless you can plan the most prevalent color on the board. Plus, SL green was good to destroy enemy specials (too bad I couldn't use his purple because of Gambit).
Need more levels in these guys to test out in other battles though.

Vhailorx

Black holes don't fall and can't be matched.  They have always been subject to destruction and match-4s or 5s.

sambrookjm

hopper1979 said:

Black Hole can now be destroyed it was changed with his update.  Watch match 4s they will destroy it as well, I honestly cannot remember is tiles destroying powers effect it I do not run him on those kinds of teams.  It does stay on the board if SS dies though which is nice.  Just don't put your Black Holes next to each other and you are all set.

I had seen the Match 4/5 destroy the Black Holes before, so that wasn't news.  I never had one destroyed by Scarlet Witch, but she only targets non-friendly spaces...maybe an enemy SW could take out a black hole?

ValekBoss

BlackBoltRocks said:

Rick OShay said:

As has been stated elsewhere, SS is now a good partner for Gambit. Use SS blue to charge tiles of your choice, Gambit red does good damage and collects the 6AP from them. I brought along 5SL as well, since I needed a yellow-green user, plus the charged tiles from SL yellow. Fun team and actually pretty efficient in the SS essential node. BB was obvious and worked well too, but the charged tile colors is quite random unless you can plan the most prevalent color on the board. Plus, SL green was good to destroy enemy specials (too bad I couldn't use his purple because of Gambit).
Need more levels in these guys to test out in other battles though.

Hmm Starlord might actually be a better third horse for Surfer-Gambit, than Black Bolt. For one, as you mentioned, Starlord's Charged tile creation is more predictable, and thus easier to plan, than Bolt's. Also, Starlord's Green leaves any Charged tiles and Gambit's countdowns on the board, compared to Bolt's Green. Of course, those countdowns still have a chance of being matched away once the three columns are replaced and the board has settled, but much less than when using Quasi-Sonic Whisper

No.....BB-SS-Gambit is the better team by far! Even BB-HE-Gambit is better then the team with SL and maybe even better the the SS team.
Why? it is all about speed and damage....SL is just to slow.

BlackBoltRocks

ValekBoss said:

No.....BB-SS-Gambit is the better team by far! Even BB-HE-Gambit is better then the team with SL and maybe even better the the SS team.
Why? it is all about speed and damage....SL is just to slow.

Haha just trying to find a use for Starlord. And with Charged tile spammers in Surfer and Gambit, it might be the best use of him.

Good shout on the Bolt-Hawkeye-Gambit trio, with Clint fortifying Remy's countdowns (along with his own). And now that you mention it, I wonder how a Gambit-Hawkeye-Goblin (at 5/3/5) team would fare

ValekBoss

BlackBoltRocks said:

ValekBoss said:

No.....BB-SS-Gambit is the better team by far! Even BB-HE-Gambit is better then the team with SL and maybe even better the the SS team.
Why? it is all about speed and damage....SL is just to slow.

Haha just trying to find a use for Starlord. And with Charged tile spammers in Surfer and Gambit, it might be the best use of him.

Good shout on the Bolt-Hawkeye-Gambit trio, with Clint fortifying Remy's countdowns (along with his own). And now that you mention it, I wonder how a Gambit-Hawkeye-Goblin (at 5/3/5) team would fare

Hahaha no worries, i know the feeling having a champend SL myself and no uses for him.

Also what i like with HE when any of the countdowns reach zero you get 3 Blue and 2 Red Ap. Fire Gambit purple and wait for the AP to roll in...

sambrookjm

Vhailorx said:

Black holes don't fall and can't be matched.  They have always been subject to destruction and match-4s or 5s.

I just noticed that they can also be moved around by Medusa's Purple.  It shoved Silver Surfer's Singularity into (where else) a corner space.  I know it's not supposed to fall or be matched away, but is it supposed to be movable by board manipulation?

Edit - The Singularity can also destroy a critical tile. I'm guessing you get no AP for that?