***** Silver Surfer (Skyrider) *****

Polares

Jaedenkaal wrote:

cyineedsn wrote:

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Isn't this like arguing that 3* Daken is bad because his skill damage is low?

That would make sense. If we didn't have another 5* with a huge passive heal and strike tile generation, and also happens to have good skill damage

Ok I guess that's fair... (SS also presumably generates resources)... but that has nothing to do with Green Goblin, unless we were hoping GG would be so bad that SS would merely be second worst?

Let's look on the bright side... he's still 5th best

Daken was a very good 3 char until they started nerfing his strike tiles, and until last 3s came out (luke,if,cyclops). He is a char with regen, who also creates strike tiles for free and who has a cheap/fast attack. Now, in what regard is he similar to SS?

The 5th better 5, yes, and probably when a new 5 is released he will be the 6th, and then 7th, etc. If you have any other 3 5s at the same level you would never use him, that's the problem. He does nothing well, nothing, no real reason to use him. Match damage? Like other 5s. Life? Just a little bit more than other 5s. Regen? Yes, but you need AP, OML heals himself for free, Phoenix resucitates. Damage? Very subpar with other 5s. Create AP? Yes, but you need a lot of AP first (black) or he creates a few charged tiles in random colors. The only good thing is that he cant be stunned.

So why would anybody use him over any other 5?

Devs need to fix him ASAP, we dont want to wait like we did for chars like IM. It is really hard to get 5s, so if anybody gets enough SS covers it should be a force, like the other 5s (some more than others thats true).

Jaedenkaal

Polares wrote:

Now, in what regard is he similar to SS?

Well, they both have a healing power a resource generation/board denial power, and a single, cheap attack power that does some damage, but nothing exciting. Strike tiles are obviously not directly comparable to charged tiles, although Daken consumes attack tiles when attacking while SS generates yet more charged tiles.

Polares

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Polares wrote:

Now, in what regard is he similar to SS?

Well, they both have a healing power a resource generation/board denial power, and a single, cheap attack power that does some damage, but nothing exciting. Strike tiles are obviously not directly comparable to charged tiles, although Daken consumes attack tiles when attacking while SS generates yet more charged tiles.

Yeah I know what you meant, and the similarities, the coment was more about, that one is a good 3, the other one is a trash 5

The only real reason to use him over any other 5 is that he has been out for far more time, so people usually has more covers for him than for other 5s.

And we all agree that ant 5 is better than any 4, but a buffed 350+ IMHB or iceman is quite close to him in quality (except for the match damage). My buffed IMHB to 355 has 32k hitpoint, does 1155 damage x red AP, and overdrive is 1300 in strike tiles. Any 5 still has more life at max, and does more match damage, but these powers are far better than the SS ones (with 100 levels of difference!!!), SS is just better because is has a ton of life. If we consider IMHB with a 350 level SS then there is no comparison at all, IMHB is far better! And devs have stated over and over again (specially with the 3 'nerf') that 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 (at the same level) which is not the case here.

Man I would really like to hear what devs think about this...

Crowl

rbdragon wrote:

I defended Silver Surfer earlier but with Goblin's stats out - yeah he's definitely gotten the short end of the 5* stick.

He's still awesome, but needs to be bumped up a bit to be on par with the rest of the 5*s.....

A better option would be a slight nerfing of the other 5*'s so the game is a little less broken.

Unknown

Crowl wrote:

rbdragon wrote:

I defended Silver Surfer earlier but with Goblin's stats out - yeah he's definitely gotten the short end of the 5* stick.

He's still awesome, but needs to be bumped up a bit to be on par with the rest of the 5*s.....

A better option would be a slight nerfing of the other 5*'s so the game is a little less broken.

An even better option would be nerfing 5*s a lot and make them have a real "5* level" of power compared to the previous tiers instead of an equivalent of 7*.

Crowl

ShionSinX wrote:

An even better option would be nerfing 5*s a lot and make them have a real "5* level" of power compared to the previous tiers instead of an equivalent of 7*.

A big nerf would cause more outcry and they have a history of overdoing things, so better to adjust the others down to the level of SS first and then see about another adjustment later.

Polares

Things is I think he should be fairly easy to 'fix'

Blue: He should be able to almost completely heal himself at 5 covers, so raise to 30k the heal at 5 (If I remember correctly in one comic he even restored himself from being disintegrated ala Dr. Manhattan).
Red: 11k damage should be the minimum, being his only attack ability (he would still need to cast it 4 times to kill any other 5 or twice for 4s...)
Black: Lower the cost to 11AP. The tile is now completely indestructible, for god sake, it is a black hole!!! No ability in the game should be able to destroy it (and this tile just does a little bit of damage and gets some AP, it is not like it is going to win the game if it reaches 0 or something like that).

With these changes he would be quite usable, and still less powerful than OML or GG.

PS: This is enough to fix him, but probably it would be better if he would be just completely reworked. SS should have the biggest nukes in the game after Phoenix. It is a pitty we have now a power for GG glider and not for Silver Surfer board

Hoho69

I love this character, use him with Luke cage and Old Man logan, to kill off hordes of cheap thugs and enemy character lvls 100 and below( combo: Silver surfer 345 lvl, old man logan 285 lvl, Luke cage 173 lvl. strong hand to hand damage kills off the cheapos within a few rounds.

Vhailorx

Hoho69 wrote:

I love this character, use him with Luke cage and Old Man logan, to kill off hordes of cheap thugs and enemy character lvls 100 and below( combo: Silver surfer 345 lvl, old man logan 285 lvl, Luke cage 173 lvl. strong hand to hand damage kills off the cheapos within a few rounds.

I think you should love OML in this scenario and not SS. OML is head, shoulders, chest, stomach, groin, thighs, knees, ankles, and feet above every other character in the game right now. Only GG comes close and its not really that close (he does more damage faster, but cannot heal and isn't as good a teammate).

Hoho69

Unfortunately my Old Man logan is the lowest level with one yellow power.

jjfyahpowah

This..

-Silver Singularity should have AP drain. Since it is a black hole random AP drain is fine. Something like 4 random enemy AP drained per turn. And since the like including negative affects 1 random AP drain from your own AP stash with it maxed out. The AP drain would start from level 2.
Level 2: Creates a 3 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 3 tiles per turn. Drains 3 random enemy AP and 3 of your own AP per turn.
Level 3: Creates a 3 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 4 tiles per turn. Drains 3 random enemy AP and 2 of your own AP per turn.
Level 4: Creates a 4 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 4 tiles per turn. Drains 3 random enemy AP and 1 of your own AP per turn.
Level 5: Creates a 4 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 5 tiles per turn. Drains 4 random enemy AP and 1 of your own AP per turn.

-Silver Singularity should not be affected by board destruction or shake moves like Sniper Rifle. That's just silly.

-Silver Surfer should be immune to Rocket Man. Sorry Nova, you still have a long ways to go before you can go toe to toe with the Sentinel of the Spaceways.

Plus..
Perfect Being - 11 AP
The Silver Surfer glows bright with a halo of cosmic energy, removing any imperfections from himself and spreading cosmic radiation across the battlefield. He heals himself for 2745 and creates 2 Charged tiles.

(PASSIVE) Silver Surfer cannot be stunned. Dev note: Yes, this means you need this power for the stun resist to kick in.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Heals for 10% of total health and creates 2 Charged tiles.
Level 3: Heals for 17% of total health and creates 3 Charged tiles.
Level 4: Heals for 28% of total health and creates 3 Charged tiles.
Level 5: Heals for 45% of total health and creates 4 Charged tiles.

And..

Cosmic Beam - 7 AP
Silver Surfer focuses the Power Cosmic into a powerful beam, blasting his enemies and radiating cosmic energy throughout the battlefield. Deals 1321 to the target and creates 1 Charged tile.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 1547 damage and creates 1 Charged tile.
Level 3: Deals 1747 damage and creates 2 Charged tile.
Level 4: Deals 2197 damage and creates 2 Charged tiles.
Level 5: Deals 3040 damage and creates 2 Charged tiles.
Max Level
Level 3: Deals 6217 damage and creates 2 Charged tiles.
Level 4: Deals 8220 damage and creates 2 Charged tiles.
Level 5: Deals 1097 damage and creates 2 Charged tiles.

SangFroid

BlackBoltRocks wrote:

Lol since we're on the topic of how we'd remodel Silver Surfer, here's my two cents. I'll also be borrowing ideas from posters above which I feel can help put this guy on par with Phoenix at least

Silver Surfboard 12 AP

Silver Surfer commands his board to roam through the battlefield, striking his target. Deals 1019 damage and creates a 3-turn Countdown tile that deals 931 damage to the enemy team, then creates a new Surfboard Countdown tile. If the Countdown tile is matched or destroyed in any way, Silver Surfer heals 1342 health. Silver Surfer cannot be stunned.

2 covers: 1673 damage to target, 1345 damage to enemy team.
3 covers: Surfer heals for 1873 health.
4 covers: 2157 damage to target, 1874 damage to enemy team.
5 covers: 2864 damage to target, 2583 damage to enemy team, heals for 2391 health.

Cosmic Beam 8 AP
Silver Surfer focuses the Power Cosmic into a powerful beam, blasting his enemies and irradiating the battlefield. Deals 1956 damage to the target and creates 3 Charged tiles.

2 covers: Deals 2589 damage and creates 3 Charged tiles.
3 covers: Deals 2871 damage and creates 4 Charged tiles.
4 covers: Deals 3274 damage and creates 4 Charged tiles.
5 covers: Deals 4062 damage, destroys a chosen row (dealing damage but not generating AP) and creates 5 Charged tiles.

Silver Singularity 13 AP
Silver Surfer creates a miniature black hole which engulfs everything. Turns a chosen basic tile into a 3-turn Black Hole tile which cannot be matched or destroyed whatsoever. Every turn it consumes 4 random tiles in a 3x3 radius, dealing damage and generating AP.

2 covers: Also drains two random opponent AP colours by 1.
3 covers: 4-turn Black Hole tile.
4 covers: Consumes 5 random tiles. Drains 3 opponent colours by 1.
5 covers: Consumes 8 tiles in a 5x5 radius, and reduces all friendly AP by 1.

?????? This would be a way worse version than what we have now?

Polares

SangFroid wrote:

BlackBoltRocks wrote:

Lol since we're on the topic of how we'd remodel Silver Surfer, here's my two cents. I'll also be borrowing ideas from posters above which I feel can help put this guy on par with Phoenix at least

Silver Surfboard 12 AP

Silver Surfer commands his board to roam through the battlefield, striking his target. Deals 1019 damage and creates a 3-turn Countdown tile that deals 931 damage to the enemy team, then creates a new Surfboard Countdown tile. If the Countdown tile is matched or destroyed in any way, Silver Surfer heals 1342 health. Silver Surfer cannot be stunned.

2 covers: 1673 damage to target, 1345 damage to enemy team.
3 covers: Surfer heals for 1873 health.
4 covers: 2157 damage to target, 1874 damage to enemy team.
5 covers: 2864 damage to target, 2583 damage to enemy team, heals for 2391 health.

Cosmic Beam 8 AP
Silver Surfer focuses the Power Cosmic into a powerful beam, blasting his enemies and irradiating the battlefield. Deals 1956 damage to the target and creates 3 Charged tiles.

2 covers: Deals 2589 damage and creates 3 Charged tiles.
3 covers: Deals 2871 damage and creates 4 Charged tiles.
4 covers: Deals 3274 damage and creates 4 Charged tiles.
5 covers: Deals 4062 damage, destroys a chosen row (dealing damage but not generating AP) and creates 5 Charged tiles.

Silver Singularity 13 AP
Silver Surfer creates a miniature black hole which engulfs everything. Turns a chosen basic tile into a 3-turn Black Hole tile which cannot be matched or destroyed whatsoever. Every turn it consumes 4 random tiles in a 3x3 radius, dealing damage and generating AP.

2 covers: Also drains two random opponent AP colours by 1.
3 covers: 4-turn Black Hole tile.
4 covers: Consumes 5 random tiles. Drains 3 opponent colours by 1.
5 covers: Consumes 8 tiles in a 5x5 radius, and reduces all friendly AP by 1.

?????? This would be a way worse version than what we have now?

I think those numbers are just for 255, at 450 he is better than right now (specially red which is doing like two times more damage for just one AP more, around 16k at 450).

I like using the surfer board, but I guess now it is too similar to GG black

What it is obvious is that SS needs a buff.

SangFroid

Ah ok I see now. Well then my answer is exactly the opposite that version would be pretty OP Blue alone would be the best skill in the game by a wide margin. 16+K heal, 16k+ single target and an additional 16K+ team Damage for 12Ap. Maybe switch it up to 16K heal plus stuns an opponent for 2 turns as they are so in awe of the "perfect being". Since D3 way overvalues charged tiles I would rather they just remove them from the skill and give a different bonus. Same for Red maybe put it at 6ap and keep the dmg at 8K then also destroys a row but destroyed tiles do not do dmg. For black the biggest drawback is it can be destroyed so I would make it permanently fortified, drop the cost to 12AP and add one tile so it returns double the cost to cast it so its 4 turns and 6tiles.

So Blue 5 covers same heal 16.5K plus a two turn stun
Red at 5 covers 6ap for 8K dmg and a destroyed row.
Black Hole at 5 covers 12AP indestructible black hole 4 turns 6tiles

He will still play much more as a support character and in the meta things are skewed towards dealing damage as fast as possible but I think like this he would still be very playable as a partner for any of the other 5*'s.

With OML he is a healer tank that stuns and his red gets to benefit from OML strikes
With Phoenix he can use all of his skill effectively (his red after Phoenix has fired hers first)
With BSSM his red and black are are both good outlets to add to BSSM's blue and green attacks plus when you need a heal his blue can be fired instead of BSSM
With GG his Red and blue will be his main additions but if the glider is lost black hole is a great AP generator

He would not be the best 5* given these changes but I think he would be the most versatile which would give him his niche.

Polares

I fought in a recent PvP a 405 level SS with buffed 4 against my 370 level OML + buffed 4 and that team barely scratched my chars, SS is so lame, I just killed the enemy buffed 4 as fast as possible and then SS was not able to do anything at all against my OML (45 levels lower!!! and with less covers then the SS). Not one scratch, both chars were above 95% health in the next fight, and I didn't need that much time.

Please devs buff SS, he doesn't deserve to be so lame

laughingMAN

Some possibly interesting fixes for this guy without changing his (theoretical) role:

- Give some control over the charge tile creation. Maybe like KK, where you select one tile to create a charge tile and it creates the other charge tiles on identical colors. Would at least give him some more reliable ap generation utility if the devs want to keep him in the tank/support role. If loopability seems too strong, maybe tweak the formula so you select one tile but the rest of the charges get put on opposing color tiles.

- make it a passive similar to SW, but which grows on each turn. If one doesn't exist, automatically create a random black hole that only sucks up one tile, then on the next turn sucks up two tiles, then on the next three. Cap it depending on the number of covers. Would probably also need to make it matchable to avoid being super OP. Again, the aim is to make him a more useful support rather than a direct damage dealer.

sambrookjm

Does Silver Surfer take more ISO to level up than the other five stars? I ask because, thanks to the huge boost in ISO because of the Shield Rankings, I've got a good chunk of ISO. I brought my 5-star Jean Grey (currently at 2/1/1) up to LVL 277 (in line with my two 4-star Champs), and at LVL 277 she needs 1834 to get up to the next level. My Silver Surfer (at 2/1/3) is at LVL 271, but he needs 3668 ISO to go up another level. My other (very low covered) 5-stars all seem to be more in line with Jean Grey's ISO needs. Any reason for this, or is this a bug?

Crowl

sambrookjm wrote:

Does Silver Surfer take more ISO to level up than the other five stars? I ask because, thanks to the huge boost in ISO because of the Shield Rankings, I've got a good chunk of ISO. I brought my 5-star Jean Grey (currently at 2/1/1) up to LVL 277 (in line with my two 4-star Champs), and at LVL 277 she needs 1834 to get up to the next level. My Silver Surfer (at 2/1/3) is at LVL 271, but he needs 3668 ISO to go up another level. My other (very low covered) 5-stars all seem to be more in line with Jean Grey's ISO needs. Any reason for this, or is this a bug?

The iso amount per level is not linear for some weird reason known only to the devs.

amusingfoo1

Crowl wrote:

The iso amount per level is not linear for some weird reason known only to the devs.

Yeah, it's closer to a sawtooth graphic than a monotonically-increasing one. Very weird.

GrumpySmurf1002

Overall I'm happy he got a boost but to me it still looks like a 500k iso for what amounts to mostly a (very good) PvE character. One who will destroy your MMR and scaling with that investment.

I'm still passing on him now, but at least I'm more inclined to level him when I am ready to bring a bunch of 5* up together.