***** Silver Surfer (Skyrider) *****

Blahahah

They changed it? Oh Jeez.

Polares

So basically SS is quite bad compared with the other 5s. Phoenix it is not very good before the transformation, but after she comes back her green, and her red being cheaper than before she becomes so much better.

SS can do nothing great. Red is a really bad power until he is 375+ level (and 4 covers), and after that it is just correct, not much better than a 4. Then black, oh black is just awful, the first time I saw a match-4 destroying the black hole all my hopes for this power disappeared. The hole tile NEEDS to be indestructible, just very special skills like Sue could affect it, and of course being immune to match-4s and match-5s is a must, a line destroyed with a match-4 should never destroy the hole :S

Blue is just ok because he has a lot of life to get to its casting cost. Being immune to stun it is the best part.

And then the charged tiles are not even in his colors!!!! So he end up charging tiles just for his opponents !!!! **** ?!?!?!?

Really disappointed in him, and it is the 5 I have more covers for :_(

Unknown

I agree that hes the worst 5*, but this is far from "bad". We've seen his power at 450 vs jean/HN/carnage once, and that still stands.

The one thing that gives him some credit besides that is the power to down the current power creep, jean, in 3 turns. Start with an iso boost for +2 red/yellow AP, make two red matches (3k damage) and fire red (11k total) plus the third turn match damage (blue is 1800). Thats 12.8k without accounting any m4/5, damage boosts (which are awesome on 5*s) or a blue/red/black match involving a charged tile that red could give to you.

Polares

ShionSinX wrote:

I agree that hes the worst 5*, but this is far from "bad". We've seen his power at 450 vs jean/HN/carnage once, and that still stands.

The one thing that gives him some credit besides that is the power to down the current power creep, jean, in 3 turns. Start with an iso boost for +2 red/yellow AP, make two red matches (3k damage) and fire red (11k total) plus the third turn match damage (blue is 1800). Thats 12.8k without accounting any m4/5, damage boosts (which are awesome on 5*s) or a blue/red/black match involving a charged tile that red could give to you.

He is BAD, he is only good because 5s have an enormous hitpoint pool and match damage, he is just a tank. Saying that probably his healing is the less bad power is a lot. And you should not compare a 450 lvl 5 with a 4, that is very unfair.

Let's try to compare apples with apples and now let's compare a JG champion that can be lvl 370 or even 450 when buffed. The difference is now smaller, and he can no longer kill her in 3 turns. What is this SS going to do against a 450 lvl IMHB when he will be able to do 1000 or more per red AP and he will generate strike tiles for 1200 or more with 30k hitpoints? OR a Cyclops that can do 17-20k damage for 10 red AP.

We need to see how 5s scale, but I guess getting 100 SS covers is going to be much harder than getting 100 IMHB covers

We also need to see how is the next 5, but SS is really underwhelming as a 5. And he is SS Galaktus first herald! He should be REALLY good.

simonsez

Polares wrote:

He is BAD

This game is so tinykitty'd when a "BAD" character is the one that can beat maxed Jeanbuster/Carnage by himself and leave the fight with no damage.

Polares

simonsez wrote:

Polares wrote:

He is BAD

This game is so tinykitty'd when a "BAD" character is the one that can beat maxed Jeanbuster/Carnage by himself and leave the fight with no damage.

He is bad as a 5. I dont know why you keep comparing 5s to 4s. Do you compare unboosted 4s to 3s? Or 3s to 2s? Yeah his match damage is inmense and has a lot of hitpoints, but his powers are really bad COMPARED TO THE OTHER 5s.

rbdragon

All I know is ever since I started playing with my level 375 3/4/1 Silver Surfer, my PVP experience has become a lot better (PVE of course has been frustrating with the scaling, but so be it).

Saying Silver Surfer is bad is ridiculous. He might not be as good as the other 5*'s ( I don't know as I only have 1 cover in each), but he isn't bad. His charge tiles tend to go on colors needed by someone on the team, intentional or not. His match damage is awesome. His health is huge. He can't be stunned once you have a single blue. His red isn't the strongest, but it's not weak either, it's simply middle of the road. His black is.....well, yeah, that's underwhelming, but somewhat useful in a pinch (not that use it much since I only have 1 cover for it).

Saying SS is bad is like saying this filet mignon is terrible because the other 2 filets are wrapped in bacon.

simonsez

Polares wrote:

He is bad as a 5. I dont know why you keep comparing 5s to 4s.

Because they're part of the same **** game. If I have to skip past a dozen OMLs and SS to find something I can beat with a jeanbuster, do you think I give a **** that that OML opponent would beat me in 1 minute and the SS opponent might take 90 seconds? They're ALL broken beyond absurdity. Who gives a flying **** how broken each one is??

Polares

simonsez wrote:

Polares wrote:

He is bad as a 5. I dont know why you keep comparing 5s to 4s.

Because they're part of the same tinykitty game. If I have to skip past a dozen OMLs and SS to find something I can beat with a jeanbuster, do you think I give a tinykitty that that OML opponent would beat me in 1 minute and the SS opponent might take 90 seconds? They're ALL broken beyond absurdity. Who gives a flying tinykitty how broken each one is??

Yeah they are part of the same game, but not part of the same tier. Of course when he is 375+ level, he is better than any 4, as it should, he is a 5 and has 100 more levels than any 4 !!! (We will see what happens when we have 4s that are 370-420 level against a same level SS).

If you see a 2/2/2 SS level 315, would you have any doubt in attacking him? I wont, I would attack him even for 40 points. I would attack a 3/3/3 SS level 360!

And instead, if you see a 2/2/2 OML level 315, would you have the same doubts? I would probably skip it (not if 70+ points). And I would never attack a 3/3/3 OML level 360.

greenglove

On my SANDBOXED account (so no one need be nervous) I have levelled up SS to 550, and here are his stats:

Health: 102636; 147; 1266; 160; 1125; 135; 985; 636

lvl 3 heals 30552; lvl 4 heals 35179; lvl 5 heals 35703 (and 4 charged tiles)

lvl 3 13437; lvl 4 15606; lvl 5 17717

Buret0

Polares wrote:

Yeah they are part of the same game, but not part of the same tier. Of course when he is 375+ level, he is better than any 4, as it should, he is a 5 and has 100 more levels than any 4 !!! (We will see what happens when we have 4s that are 370-420 level against a same level SS).

If you see a 2/2/2 SS level 315, would you have any doubt in attacking him? I wont, I would attack him even for 40 points. I would attack a 3/3/3 SS level 360!

And instead, if you see a 2/2/2 OML level 315, would you have the same doubts? I would probably skip it (not if 70+ points). And I would never attack a 3/3/3 OML level 360.

I tank OML with surfer, leave OML for last. The AI is terrible with OML tbh. Once he's the last one left, I deny black and he dies.

A much higher level OML is another story. Like any 9+ cover OML is a much tougher fight.

kensterr

SS is still good in PVE against Venom or Gorgon or any characters that stun. If you don't have any 5* covers other than SS then his match damage alone makes it good for general PVE and seeds in LR.

Polares

Well after Green Goblin, I think we should start the first petition to buff SS

7AP - 8k + 2 charged tiles

8AP - 22k , wait two turns to double cast

In what universe this feels in the same league?!?!?!?!? Almost three times the damage, and basically no disadvantage!!! He is so lame compared to the best 5s...

And again, the black hole tile should be far harder to destroy, and never with a with a match-4 !!!

Buff the powers or buff his life and match damage, so at least he is a very good tank!


PS: Yesterday I just got my 9th cover for him, and he had to be the worst of all 5s
PS: It is obvious than being the first 5 has not helped SS at all ... ( the same thing happened to the first 3s and 4s )

SangFroid

Polares wrote:

Well after Green Goblin, I think we should start the first petition to buff SS

7AP - 8k + 2 charged tiles

8AP - 22k , wait two turns to double cast

In what universe this feels in the same league?!?!?!?!? Almost three times the damage, and basically no disadvantage!!! He is so lame compared to the best 5s...

And again, the black hole tile should be far harder to destroy, and never with a with a match-4 !!!

Buff the powers or buff his life and match damage, so at least he is a very good tank!


PS: Yesterday I just got my 9th cover for him, and he had to be the worst of all 5s
PS: It is obvious than being the first 5 has not helped SS at all ... ( the same thing happened to the first 3s and 4s )

I agree he is underpowered but as a correction GG can lose his black power if the countdown tile gets matched away so he has to have really high damage for cheap as a trade-off for a power that can be locked the whole match. With the new tile "locking/protecting" ability that GG has I would really like to see this applied to SS's black hole it should not be able to be destroyed.

Polares

SangFroid wrote:

Polares wrote:

Well after Green Goblin, I think we should start the first petition to buff SS

7AP - 8k + 2 charged tiles

8AP - 22k , wait two turns to double cast

In what universe this feels in the same league?!?!?!?!? Almost three times the damage, and basically no disadvantage!!! He is so lame compared to the best 5s...

And again, the black hole tile should be far harder to destroy, and never with a with a match-4 !!!

Buff the powers or buff his life and match damage, so at least he is a very good tank!


PS: Yesterday I just got my 9th cover for him, and he had to be the worst of all 5s
PS: It is obvious than being the first 5 has not helped SS at all ... ( the same thing happened to the first 3s and 4s )

I agree he is underpowered but as a correction GG can lose his black power if the countdown tile gets matched away so he has to have really high damage for cheap as a trade-off for a power that can be locked the whole match. With the new tile "locking/protecting" ability that GG has I would really like to see this applied to SS's black hole it should not be able to be destroyed.

Yeah it is true I read GG black too fast, I thought it was like redwing countdown, buuuut GG also fortifies tiles so, it is not as bad, basically the other team just has one turn to destroy the countdown.

But anyway, you need like 21AP in SS case to do the same damage, I doubt you are going to get more red AP in a normal match, so cast it 3 times, yeah, four probably not, and you need A LOT more time to get all this AP. So even if you cast GG black just once it is still better than SS red (if you can cast it twice then there is no comparison at all).


I firmly think devs need to revision SS after new 5s have come out, as I said it happened the same in 3 and 4 space, where first chars were really bad. Then on top of that, for some strange reason devs think charged tiles are the best thing in the world when they are not (it is the same with 4hor), they can be good, but when they are in random colors, and the other team can use them too, they should not be considered that expensive/good. Then they need to 'fortify' the black hole A LOT, the ability is too expensive for what you get OR make it way cheaper, like 10 or less AP (now we have a 3 that can get you 36AP in just two turns for 6AP, how can we compare this ability to a 5 ability and get to the conclusion that the 5 ability is far worse?!?!?!). The only ability is more or less on par with other 5s is blue (it could heal a little bit more or create more charged tiles, but I guess it is ok, the passive is really good).

Jaedenkaal

Isn't this like arguing that 3* Daken is bad because his skill damage is low?

fight4thedream

Polares wrote:

Well after Green Goblin, I think we should start the first petition to buff SS

7AP - 8k + 2 charged tiles

8AP - 22k , wait two turns to double cast

In what universe this feels in the same league?!?!?!?!? Almost three times the damage, and basically no disadvantage!!! He is so lame compared to the best 5s...

And again, the black hole tile should be far harder to destroy, and never with a with a match-4 !!!

Buff the powers or buff his life and match damage, so at least he is a very good tank!


PS: Yesterday I just got my 9th cover for him, and he had to be the worst of all 5s
PS: It is obvious than being the first 5 has not helped SS at all ... ( the same thing happened to the first 3s and 4s )

Agreed.

One of the things that bothers me most is that currently, even if you are to save up 30 red AP you still wouldn't have enough fire power to take down a maxed OML at full health (which is quite plausible considering that ridiculous passive healing).

In order to take down OML at full health, SS cosmic beam would have to do 10,620 damage.

Currently it does 8197 damage x 4 = 32,788
Remember that OML at full health is 42,480 which would leave him with 9,692 HP (plus 1,586 heal if he hasn't popped those claws)

OML on the other hand can do up to potentially 43,355 or more depending if you still have team members or not (and depending on build) leaving the Surfer with roughly 4,000 HP if at full health, plus he still has his move to make match damage and if you are lucky enough for there to be no strike tiles left you might be able to get enough blue to heal

So I think it goes without saying they should raise the damage to at least 10,620.

Or, some other things they can do is:

-Have Perfect Being generate only red charge tiles and cosmic beam only generate blue charge tiles. And by generate I mean transform normal tiles. Silver Surfer is known for his precision and one of his most well known powers is molecular manipulation and yet they make it seem like the Sentinel of the Spaceways is just randomly spewing cosmic energy all over the place.

-Silver Singularity should have AP drain. Since it is a black hole random AP drain is fine. Something like 4 random enemy AP drained per turn. And since the like including negative affects 1 random AP drain from your own AP stash with it maxed out. The AP drain would start from level 2.
Level 2: Creates a 3 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 3 tiles per turn. Drains 3 random enemy AP and 3 of your own AP per turn.
Level 3: Creates a 3 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 4 tiles per turn. Drains 3 random enemy AP and 2 of your own AP per turn.
Level 4: Creates a 4 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 4 tiles per turn. Drains 3 random enemy AP and 1 of your own AP per turn.
Level 5: Creates a 4 turn Black Hole tile which destroys 5 tiles per turn. Drains 4 random enemy AP and 1 of your own AP per turn.

-Silver Singularity should not be affected by board destruction or shake moves like Sniper Rifle. That's just silly.

-Silver Surfer should be immune to Rocket Man. Sorry Nova, you still have a long ways to go before you can go toe to toe with the Sentinel of the Spaceways.

rbdragon

Polares wrote:

Well after Green Goblin, I think we should start the first petition to buff SS

7AP - 8k + 2 charged tiles

8AP - 22k , wait two turns to double cast

In what universe this feels in the same league?!?!?!?!? Almost three times the damage, and basically no disadvantage!!! He is so lame compared to the best 5s...

And again, the black hole tile should be far harder to destroy, and never with a with a match-4 !!!

Buff the powers or buff his life and match damage, so at least he is a very good tank!


PS: Yesterday I just got my 9th cover for him, and he had to be the worst of all 5s
PS: It is obvious than being the first 5 has not helped SS at all ... ( the same thing happened to the first 3s and 4s )

I defended Silver Surfer earlier but with Goblin's stats out - yeah he's definitely gotten the short end of the 5* stick.

He's still awesome, but needs to be bumped up a bit to be on par with the rest of the 5*s.....

cyineedsn

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Isn't this like arguing that 3* Daken is bad because his skill damage is low?

That would make sense. If we didn't have another 5* with a huge passive heal and strike tile generation, and also happens to have good skill damage

Jaedenkaal

cyineedsn wrote:

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Isn't this like arguing that 3* Daken is bad because his skill damage is low?

That would make sense. If we didn't have another 5* with a huge passive heal and strike tile generation, and also happens to have good skill damage

Ok I guess that's fair... (SS also presumably generates resources)... but that has nothing to do with Green Goblin, unless we were hoping GG would be so bad that SS would merely be second worst?

Let's look on the bright side... he's still 5th best