Black Widow (Original) - 2*

Unknown

Please add 1 or 2 more for every level of this skill. This char is able to defeat an whole 166 team... being just 94.

Another idea would be to put a countdown of 1 or 2 turns randomly on the board to let a chance to the enemy to do something.

MarcusGraves

kitkiller8732 wrote:

Please add 1 or 2 more for every level of this skill. This char is able to defeat an whole 166 team... being just 94.

doubt she can take down three HP pools of 6800+ by herself through her match damage alone with no help from the rest of her team....

kitkiller8732 wrote:

Another idea would be to put a countdown of 1 or 2 turns randomly on the board to let a chance to the enemy to do something.

enemy's chance to do something is to kill her before she uses AR

Unknown

kitkiller8732 wrote:

Please add 1 or 2 more for every level of this skill. This char is able to defeat an whole 166 team... being just 94.

Another idea would be to put a countdown of 1 or 2 turns randomly on the board to let a chance to the enemy to do something.

Sure, a dumb cascade can get you, but she is so easy to eliminate, especially if you can do it fast.

Unknown

Sure, but what can you do when she takes 14 purple in the first turn and uses her skill in second and fourth turn ? suffer in silence for 5 turns ?
I tried collecting teamups, but couldn't do it enough to manage to counter her... so...

Even if it's not her that deals damage, it's still her the problem, not her mates.

Don't forget she's only 2*... what will happen when a 3* stealer will be released ? 6 purple to steal 3 AP of all color ? No joke...

MarcusGraves

kitkiller8732 wrote:

Sure, but what can you do when she takes 14 purple in the first turn and uses her skill in second and fourth turn ? suffer in silence for 5 turns ?
I tried collecting teamups, but couldn't do it enough to manage to counter her... so...

yeah i'd rather take that over any of the following happening

Early enemy cascade into:

-windstorm
-call the storm
-supernova
-rage of the panther

also your example is a really weak argument since big early cascades like that are not a frequent occurrence.

kitkiller8732 wrote:

Don't forget she's only 2*... what will happen when a 3* stealer will be released ? 6 purple to steal 3 AP of all color ? No joke...

3* stealer already exists, see Hood

Unknown

Cascades aren't a problem. Taking damages, luck or not, is part of the game and can't be changed. But not being able to do anything like this, isn't what I called a balanced char...
As I said, put her 1 or 2 more to use her skill and give her 500hp more, and then she will be far more balanced.

I can't compare Black Widow and The Hood, with the first you will get your 3 purple really fast, and for the second one you have to get far more luck to get it, same for Blade who's just released or even a psylocke who steals only 1 color AND with a countdown => Her steal is too powerful. (1st point)
And the fact is that stealing can be beter with Black widow than with The Hood cause you can steal 3 or 4 AP of all colors with a single skill every 2 or 3 turns.
That means she should steal less or use more purple to be able to steal, like the 1* version but using less than her, of course, but not that much. (16 purple 1* -> 8 purple 2* ? No. 16 :purple -> 9 or 10 and then it will be more balanced.) (2nd point)

I don't have any problem with The Hood who's balanced in my opinion. But he's a 3*, which means a 2* shouldn't have the same power than him.

BTW, it isn't logic that the 2* version can defeat without any problem her 3* version. (3rd point)

MarcusGraves

kitkiller8732 wrote:

Cascades aren't a problem. Taking damages, luck or not, is part of the game and can't be changed. But not being able to do anything like this, isn't what I called a balanced char...
As I said, put her 1 or 2 more to use her skill and give her 500hp more, and then she will be far more balanced.

once again there are things you can do to stop her

1) take purples from her; no purple matches, no AR or espionage procs
2) kill her, 3430 HP is glass, break it.
3) bring at least one character with a cheap damage ability or two. ares green which does 1380 damage for 6 AP or torch's max red which does 1654 for 8 AP are both excellent at shaving her HP down fast.

kitkiller8732 wrote:

I can't compare Black Widow and The Hood, with the first you will get your 3 purple really fast, and for the second one you have to get far more luck to get it, same for Blade who's just released or even a psylocke who steals only 1 color AND with a countdown => Her steal is too powerful. (1st point)

if anything OBW's is more luck dependent and risky than hood's for the following reasons

1) purple matches have to line up on the board
2) AI needs to have some purple AP for the +1 for espionage
3) is moved to front of the team when you make your purple match with her putting her in danger

for hood's steal

1) 9 of a color on board (super super easy)
2) enemy has 1 AP of that color
3) hood doesn't need to make any matches

kitkiller8732 wrote:

And the fact is that stealing can be better with Black widow than with The Hood cause you can steal 3 or 4 AP of all colors with a single skill every 2 or 3 turns.
That means she should steal less or use more purple to be able to steal, like the 1* version but using less than her, of course, but not that much. (16 purple 1* -> 8 purple 2* ? No. 16 :purple -> 9 or 10 and then it will be more balanced.) (2nd point)

I don't have any problem with The Hood who's balanced in my opinion. But he's a 3*, which means a 2* shouldn't have the same power than him.

can be, but isn't, in the turns you were trying to make matches to get towards AR, hood's passive was already denying AP in everything but purple freeing up your team to make the matches they need for powers with his steals on top of them. Hoods passive is also better in the fact that AR is kinda wasted early in a match if the enemy doesn't have 3 of the color you want but hood's passive doesn't care, it just goes off as long as there is 9 of a color on the board and he doesn't bring himself to the front. it's also good on defense vs players that bring +AP boosts into a match because it can potentially start stealing from them right on the AI's turn

kitkiller8732 wrote:

BTW, it isn't logic that the 2* version can defeat without any problem her 3* version. (3rd point)

that really has nothing to do with anything considering GSBW is designed to be a slow offensive character that ends games with sniper rifle while OBW is a support character designed to slow down the enemy, different characters with different roles.

Unknown

2) kill her, 3430 HP is glass, break it.

Let's give her 500HP more, and up his purple of 1 AP for every level and I'm OK and it will be more balanced. Not a nerf, not an up, but more balanced, which is what I ask.



So the real debate, in my opinion, is : what should we up if we increase the purple cost (or put a 1 turn countdown, like 2* magneto's red) if we want her to stay at the same level of efficiency ?
-> 500 HP ? (well, it could)
-> more spy damages ? (50 damages more, maybe ?)
-> 1 more countdown turn (well, not enough to compensate it...)
-> another idea ?

that really has nothing to do with anything considering GSBW is designed to be a slow offensive character that ends games with sniper rifle while OBW is a support character designed to slow down the enemy, different characters with different roles.

2* more OP than 3* ? No point, really ?
In my opinion, there should be no 2* AP stealer.

over_clocked

Marcus, great points. Only thing is Hood requires 10 or more tiles of a colour to steal at 5 blue.

MarcusGraves

locked wrote:

Marcus, great points. Only thing is Hood requires 10 or more tiles of a colour to steal at 5 blue.

has that changed? last time I looked at his page it said "9 tiles at rank 4"

over_clocked

MarcusGraves wrote:

locked wrote:

Marcus, great points. Only thing is Hood requires 10 or more tiles of a colour to steal at 5 blue.

has that changed? last time I looked at his page it said "9 tiles at rank 4"

* more than 9 tiles. Has always been like that. The actual preview for lvl 4 was ambiguous months ago so I asked to change it to 'more than 9' and it was.
I tested that a while ago, ranks 4-5 do NOT trigger when there are exactly 9 tiles.

April 24:

locked wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Saint Matthew wrote:

Hmm....I'll have to check and see if it is 9 or more he steals...or it is more than 9 steal...he's still awesome but that 1 extra does make a difference on the board.

It seems to work as long as there is at least 9 tiles of that color. I think it should have read if 9 tiles or more of that color, but I could have miscounted, but pretty sure you only need 9 of one color.

Nope it's MORE than 9. I have a 5 blue Hood. See here: I made a 4-match, killing a character and gaining various AP. They made a normal red match. Next turn, I steal nothing and there are precisely 9 red on the board.


See, there are almost always 9 tiles of a given colour on the board (64/7 = 9,14). If the Hood stole AP of each colour each turn he'd be considered more broken than Spidey.

Unknown

Hi, I've noticed this bug for a few weeks now and it's carried over since the last update. I have a fully leveled Black Widow (Original) with lvl. 3 Espionage. The power appears to work fine with purple and blue gems, but it no longer steals black gems. I've verified (several times) that my opponent has black gems in their inventory. I'm not sure what to do, but next time I find a BWO black cover I'll try to respec her to lvl 4 Espionage to see if that gets rid of the bug.

over_clocked

Does your oBW still take black colour priority? Is someone else in your lineup taking over? Could be Hood, Punisher, either Daken, either Human Torch, Hulk, X-Force, et cetera. She only procs on Espionage if she has her icon on purple/blue/black tiles. Btw you should go ahead and make Espionage maxed anyway: 3/5/5 oBW is much faster and also procs on Espionage twice when friendly strike tiles are present, making her a sweet partner for almost all strike tile characters (Patch, Punisher, Black Panther, 2* Daken, A.Wolvie, etc.).

Unknown

Yeah, I guess that's the problem then. I was using her with X-Force Wolvy. That leads to another question...why isn't that clarification on the card? Is it really supposed to be like that ("When she attacks..." means it has to be her color priority) or is it a bug that was never fixed?

Unknown

Bladejay wrote:

Yeah, I guess that's the problem then. I was using her with X-Force Wolvy. That leads to another question...why isn't that clarification on the card? Is it really supposed to be like that ("When she attacks..." means it has to be her color priority) or is it a bug that was never fixed?

I think they can include only so much information on the screen before new players are overwhelmed. The game looks like a normal match-3 on surface but it is an RPG also with developing characters. It's not a bug. The Espionage ability works on purple, blue and black at 5 black covers passively when OBW makes a match in those colors. If she doesn't make the match on black for example, and it's XForce, then she doesn't "Espionage". Same thing happens when you pair her up with an adequately levelled 3* Captain America but with blue tiles this time.

Unknown

or 3* Magneto as I've found....oh well, I don't use oBW much anymore, anyway. Thanks everyone for the clarification.

Unknown

Unless you are aware, if you have characters with same values on same colors, you can choose which one will tank that color via placing them accordingly in the character selection screen before battle. Tanking order is middle, left and right. If both characters X and Y have 56 on purple and you want X to tank purple, you place him/her in the middle or left for example while Y goes to left/right or right respectively.

MojoWild

It does say "when she attacks", which says to me that the color must be hers and not one of the other characters.

Unknown

Im not sure how to explain this:

I just won a match and OBW had 2200HP. I went to start my next match and her health was down to 190HP... can anyone help me out with this?

mags1587

Did you use her blue power during the match? OBW's blue isn't 'true' healing anymore, it's just temporary healing within that match. Once you leave that match, the temporary healing disappears and you're left with whatever health you had before you used the power. You can identify this temporary healing because the color of the health bar shows it in a different color.