Is the Vault Working for You? Vault Efficiency

scottee

IceIX wrote:

turul wrote:

So what happens when you buy a 40pack when there are less than 40 contents left in the Vault?

You can't. The 40 pack option simply isn't available. Same for 10 packs when you have 9 or less remaining.


Also, with this upcoming 4th of July Versus Event running, we're going to be trying out a different Vault. Deadpool Daily Vaults will still be running with this one alongside.
This Vault will be set up to run during all 3 Versus Events (Captain America, Falcon, and Captain Marvel). It'll have 50 items total as opposed to 300.

We're still working out the precise contents. Expect similar to the Deadpool Dailies, but with less Health Packs.

Wait! You mean to tell us that the first iteration wasn't the final, gonna-be-exactly-like-this-forever version and people were freaking out for nothing?? Oh the humanity! You should have said something like, "we're testing it."

Oh wait, you did.

IceIX

turul wrote:

I suggest not randomising high-end rewards so it will be equally rewarding for anyone.
There is Iron Fist Shortage btw. Devil Dino could also have a spot there!

Will there be 3x3 earnable tokens as usual?

Dino won't be making an appearance here, but if I were a betting man I'd say he'd be included in any Anniversary Vault when that comes around. And yes, the progression tokens will still be available. So assuming you can get the score to get them, that's 9/50 rewards without any attendant Daily Deals or the like.

GrumpySmurf1002

IceIX wrote:

Also, with this upcoming 4th of July Versus Event running, we're going to be trying out a different Vault. Deadpool Daily Vaults will still be running with this one alongside.
This Vault will be set up to run during all 3 Versus Events (Captain America, Falcon, and Captain Marvel). It'll have 50 items total as opposed to 300.

We're still working out the precise contents. Expect similar to the Deadpool Dailies, but with less Health Packs.

Safe to assume the 300/650/900 tokens will become Vault tokens?

udonomefoo

I usually don't push to 900 for that last vault token, but now....

IceIX

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Safe to assume the 300/650/900 tokens will become Vault tokens?

'Tis the plan, yes.

Dauthi

scottee wrote:

IceIX wrote:

turul wrote:

So what happens when you buy a 40pack when there are less than 40 contents left in the Vault?

You can't. The 40 pack option simply isn't available. Same for 10 packs when you have 9 or less remaining.


Also, with this upcoming 4th of July Versus Event running, we're going to be trying out a different Vault. Deadpool Daily Vaults will still be running with this one alongside.
This Vault will be set up to run during all 3 Versus Events (Captain America, Falcon, and Captain Marvel). It'll have 50 items total as opposed to 300.

We're still working out the precise contents. Expect similar to the Deadpool Dailies, but with less Health Packs.

Wait! You mean to tell us that the first iteration wasn't the final, gonna-be-exactly-like-this-forever version and people were freaking out for nothing?? Oh the humanity! You should have said something like, "we're testing it."

Oh wait, you did.

I don't know about everyone else, but that is why I am giving so much feedback.

halirin

Dauthi wrote:

El Satanno wrote:

Raffoon wrote:

El Satanno wrote:

I'm going to back up Ducky on this one. Dauthi, you seem to be griping because this system doesn't meet your expectations. That doesn't make it "inaccessible" nor does it make it any less than what we were told. Your claims in this thread are either misleading or outright false.

300 things in the vault is too many. Removing a token barely increases your odds to pull something that you want. Does it increase it? Yes, technically. When you walk outside, do you increase your chance of being hit by a meteor or a piece of jettisoned airplane poop? Yup! But not enough to warrant any consideration.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Vault is the answer to our prayers. It's an improvement over the prior Taco thing, which in turn was an improvement over standard tokens. That much, I think, is not really subject to rational argument. My big gripe here is that we already have enough people who post thread after thread of misleading and/or outright false complaints about how the game works. The original post here strikes me soundly as one of those. I'll piss and moan about stuff as much as the next guy, so long as it's not based on a lie or erroneous logic.

If my logic is erroneous and I am lying, please explain how. I would love to be able to refute it, but I can't refute claims by themselves.

Do you believe a .1% increase in drops is significant? From a statistical standpoint, a drop going from 1% to 1.1% has virtually no sway in your drop rate. That is what you get if you wait 2 months. That is a 1/1000 bonus chance to pull the desired cover, meaning if you had 1000 tokens, you are likely to get it (I am not sure how else to explain this). The point we are both trying to get through is that if a system has a ridiculously low effect rate, .1% in that case, why should it be there at all?

It was a great idea that they pitched to us, and it's perfectly fine to complain when you are advertised something and not get it.

I have to disagree. A .1% increase in drop rate is significant if you remember that you're talking about opening multiple tokens at once. These small differences add up to much bigger chances in getting at least one 4* when you look at cumulative probability instead of marginal probability. I have a post with some calculations that shows you the numbers behind that claim.

Also, I wanted to point out a mistake that people keep making. This change to the vault didn't increase the odds of a DDQ 4* in a given week (if you spend all 10 tacos) from 9.56% to 9.7% (because yes, the difference between drawing with/without replacement is small for ten tokens). The change increased the odds from 0% to 9.7%. Wowza!

Vhailorx

scottee wrote:

IceIX wrote:

turul wrote:

So what happens when you buy a 40pack when there are less than 40 contents left in the Vault?

You can't. The 40 pack option simply isn't available. Same for 10 packs when you have 9 or less remaining.


Also, with this upcoming 4th of July Versus Event running, we're going to be trying out a different Vault. Deadpool Daily Vaults will still be running with this one alongside.
This Vault will be set up to run during all 3 Versus Events (Captain America, Falcon, and Captain Marvel). It'll have 50 items total as opposed to 300.

We're still working out the precise contents. Expect similar to the Deadpool Dailies, but with less Health Packs.

Wait! You mean to tell us that the first iteration wasn't the final, gonna-be-exactly-like-this-forever version and people were freaking out for nothing?? Oh the humanity! You should have said something like, "we're testing it."

Oh wait, you did.

You seem to be conflating constructive criticism with mindless complaining.

I am sure that my own posts are not always as constructive as I want them to be or think that they are (/understatement). But I do try to bring something to the table when I post about something disappointing in the game.

In this case I and several others noted that the vault setup wasn't final, and we also noted that the system wasn't particularly bad, it just didn't quite match our expectations (which were set a little higher by the dev comments pre-release). What's the problem?

Also, if the devs said they are testing, shouldn't we provide feedback so that we can get the improvements we want?

Dauthi

halirin wrote:

I have to disagree. A .1% increase in drop rate is significant if you remember that you're talking about opening multiple tokens at once. These small differences add up to much bigger chances in getting at least one 4* when you look at cumulative probability instead of marginal probability. I have a post with some calculations that shows you the numbers behind that claim.

Also, I wanted to point out a mistake that people keep making. This change to the vault didn't increase the odds of a DDQ 4* in a given week (if you spend all 10 tacos) from 9.56% to 9.7% (because yes, the difference between drawing with/without replacement is small for ten tokens). The change increased the odds from 0% to 9.7%. Wowza!

I pat you on the back, sir. As I stated to begin with, math isn't my forte, but at the very least I got those more capable to pull out their calculators

If that all checks out the numbers aren't as bad as expected, though (if I am reading your numbers right) saving 170 tokens is not only the sweet spot for maximizing the Vault, it also gives you a 90% chance to get a 4*. That is pretty safe overall. The problem now is saving tokens, because we have to save double. 170 tokens is 5 1/2 months to hit that sweet spot

TxMoose

wow - an event vault with 50 things in it. if they still sell 42 packs, I want to see what's in those vaults (iso/hp/****) - it could be a money machine for them. and for those who like spending, when, say, fist comes around - chaching. maybe that's why we haven't seen fist/cage/Cyclops in pvp since their intros. they're waiting to convert all token pages to vaults. I actually love the vault idea with less health packs and less items.

Unknown

One thing I don't like in the vault is how we don't have all cover colors for all 3*s on it. For example, I'm missing one blade green cover, and he's in my vault, but only the purple and the black covers are there.

We can't just stockpile knowing what's next too, because some 3*s have only one cover on the vault (six of them). Even when someone we need has the cover we want, the chances to get it are exactly 1/30 (5 days times 2 tokens out of 300).

Malcrof

Horrible idea, but putting it here anyway.. can you please put Bagman in the vault and remove duplicates of some of the other 2*s? my poor baggie is 0/2/2 and slow going on building him!

TxMoose

Malcrof wrote:

Horrible idea, but putting it here anyway.. can you please put Bagman in the vault and remove duplicates of some of the other 2*s? my poor baggie is 0/2/2 and slow going on building him!

lightning rounds man. I've probably sold 4 baggies this week and always keep on in my waiting room 'just in case'

Malcrof

TxMoose wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Horrible idea, but putting it here anyway.. can you please put Bagman in the vault and remove duplicates of some of the other 2*s? my poor baggie is 0/2/2 and slow going on building him!

lightning rounds man. I've probably sold 4 baggies this week and always keep on in my waiting room 'just in case'

just got one from the dd LR, seems to be the only place to get them anymore.. nothing from any other pvp or shield sim

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

This Vault will be set up to run during all 3 Versus Events (Captain America, Falcon, and Captain Marvel).

There are other characters in the game besides Captain Marvel. This will be the fourth set of rewards for her in just over a month and third time in 2 weeks. Season 15, Event 1; Season 16, Event 5; Ultron PvE; Simulator PvE.

Yet there hasn't been an Iron Fist reward since his release in Season 12... Some people would put on a tinfoil hat and scream that it is a conspiracy to get us to buy IF covers. Not me, tinfoil makes my head itch, but some people would.

Maybe it is time to rotate Marvel out of the Mohawk Storm Preferred Treatment Slot in the rewards rotation. With 40 characters, there is no reason to have a character be rewarded more than once in two seasons, much less 4 times. It would be really simple (I would imagine) to not allow the rewards during Season 17 to include any character rewarded during Season 16. There are only 16 to 20 rewards possible per season, so this would allow most characters to have a moment in the sun every couple of months.

TxMoose

papa07 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

This Vault will be set up to run during all 3 Versus Events (Captain America, Falcon, and Captain Marvel).

There are other characters in the game besides Captain Marvel. This will be the fourth set of rewards for her in just over a month and third time in 2 weeks. Season 15, Event 1; Season 16, Event 5; Ultron PvE; Simulator PvE.

Yet there hasn't been an Iron Fist reward since his release in Season 12... Some people would put on a tinfoil hat and scream that it is a conspiracy to get us to buy IF covers. Not me, tinfoil makes my head itch, but some people would.

Maybe it is time to rotate Marvel out of the Mohawk Storm Preferred Treatment Slot in the rewards rotation. With 40 characters, there is no reason to have a character be rewarded more than once in two seasons, much less 4 times. It would be really simple (I would imagine) to not allow the rewards during Season 17 to include any character rewarded during Season 16. There are only 16 to 20 rewards possible per season, so this would allow most characters to have a moment in the sun every couple of months.

cage or Cyclops would be nice too... they're in the witness protection program too apparently.

Hayek

When DDQ started, I only needed about half of all covers on 3*s. I remember that I used to hoard tokens for the weeks that would give me the biggest chance of getting a cover I needed, spend 30 tokens, and they would all be 2*s. It was infuriating until I resigned myself to the fact that tokens = ISO.

The added bonuses of this new system that no one is mentioning:

If you needed a BP black before, even if you pulled a BP, there was only a 33% chance it was going to be black. Now the colors are pre-rolled for you, so you can check if there are 4 black and 1 yellow, or 0 black and 5 blue BPs before committing.

If you do hoard 300 tokens, and start spending them to get that one thing you need, there's a very small chance that you'll need to spend all 300 to get it, and an equal chance you might pull it within the first 10. Meaning you have 300 tokens next go around again.

The vault should eliminate your need for ever buying health packs again. Hoard your tokens, and when you run out but really need to grind that PvE some more, spend a few for a very good chance of +5 health packs.

This aside from the fact that for people with established rosters, there were weeks where there was absolutely nothing you needed from taco tokens.

So the taco system went from a system where I hoarded my tokens with a very slim hope of anything useful (and definitely not as rare as a 4*) and in reality just got a lot of free +250 ISO (which is better than nothing) to a system where I'll hoard my tokens like I did before, but have an immediate use for them if I run out of health packs, know the exact odds of every available prize, have at least a chance to be surprised by a really nice prize, and if I wait long enough - am guaranteed a really nice prize.

firethorne

I think for me, the root problem is still the riduculous prices that are completely out of line with the rest of the market. It exists in everything you can buy in the game, and the vault is just a continuation.

I can pay $50 for a 40 pack and get zero cards I want. If I'm lucky, and get all 4* character cards, I essentially get 23% of a character I want.

The best case scenario is $50 for a fourth of a character? That's a full price game. Either Witcher 3, GTA 5, or Fallout 4 preorder.

Now, I know there are whales paying that. I just wonder what makes for a more healthy game in the long run, one where thousands of people are willing to spend a few bucks, or one where just a few spend thousands.

Hayek

firethorne wrote:

I think for me, the root problem is still the riduculous prices that are completely out of line with the rest of the market. It exists in everything you can buy in the game, and the vault is just a continuation.

I can pay $50 for a 40 pack and get zero cards I want. If I'm lucky, and get all 4* character cards, I essentially get 23% of a character I want.

The best case scenario is $50 for a fourth of a character? That's a full price game. Either Witcher 3, GTA 5, or Fallout 4 preorder.

Now, I know there are whales paying that. I just wonder what makes for a more healthy game in the long run, one where thousands of people are willing to spend a few bucks, or one where just a few spend thousands.

Just ignore event packs like the rest of us. Unless you've got at most 2* roster and need pretty much every 3* there is, buying packs of any event is always a REALLY bad deal. The only time you should consider it is if you need that 1st cover to get through a DDQ or essential node, but every other 3* is profit, and even some 2*s. It's always much cheaper (albeit less exciting) to just buy the cover with HP.

The exception being 1 pack daily deal for ultron events featuring a 4* for instance, where the chance to get the 4* is higher for 50hp than the 2% of the cover cost of 2500hp.

If you need EVERY 4* cover, a 42 pack for Venom Heroic would give you 4.4% chance on every token to get a 4* for 15800 HP. A 5% chance is 1/20, so on average you'll be pulling 2x 4*s. For 15800 HP you can buy 6 4* covers that you actually need and for the same character, so that you have a useful 4* rather than 2+ unusable ones. And you're leaving all this to chance, which is what people seem to hate about the vault.

Malcrof

Hayek wrote:

firethorne wrote:

I think for me, the root problem is still the riduculous prices that are completely out of line with the rest of the market. It exists in everything you can buy in the game, and the vault is just a continuation.

I can pay $50 for a 40 pack and get zero cards I want. If I'm lucky, and get all 4* character cards, I essentially get 23% of a character I want.

The best case scenario is $50 for a fourth of a character? That's a full price game. Either Witcher 3, GTA 5, or Fallout 4 preorder.

Now, I know there are whales paying that. I just wonder what makes for a more healthy game in the long run, one where thousands of people are willing to spend a few bucks, or one where just a few spend thousands.

Just ignore event packs like the rest of us. Unless you've got at most 2* roster and need pretty much every 3* there is, buying packs of any event is always a REALLY bad deal. The only time you should consider it is if you need that 1st cover to get through a DDQ or essential node, but every other 3* is profit, and even some 2*s. It's always much cheaper (albeit less exciting) to just buy the cover with HP.

The exception being 1 pack daily deal for ultron events featuring a 4* for instance, where the chance to get the 4* is higher for 50hp than the 2% of the cover cost of 2500hp.

If you need EVERY 4* cover, a 42 pack for Venom Heroic would give you 4.4% chance on every token to get a 4* for 15800 HP. A 5% chance is 1/20, so on average you'll be pulling 2x 4*s. For 15800 HP you can buy 6 4* covers that you actually need and for the same character, so that you have a useful 4* rather than 2+ unusable ones. And you're leaving all this to chance, which is what people seem to hate about the vault.

40 pack of heroics give decent odds on all 4*'s now, and are 3k HP cheaper.