**** Carnage (Cletus Kasady) ****

simonsez

Why are we still debating this? We've all had the chance to play him in essential PvE nodes, and in PvP. We've all learned he's terrible to play with. The only correct build is 5/5/3, and the only correct use is to annoy the **** out of people in PvP.

Unknown

He's not terrible to play with though, especially on certain PVE nodes. He's single handedly helped me soldier through some incredibly difficult nodes that I would otherwise wipe on, and that's with only one black cover.

simonsez

Haetron wrote:

He's not terrible to play with though, especially on certain PVE nodes.

I envy your scaling. The last thing you'd want on a node where the opponents have double the health you do (which describes most nodes for most people) is an ability that drains health from both sides equally.

CaptainFreaky

Malcrof wrote:

Dedwrekka wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

It means loki had enough black for his power, but no tiles to use it on, so the AI tries to use it and gets an error message.. Works for you as well if you try to use a power (like loki black) and get the error message, Carnage goes off like you used it anyway.

Actually I tested that using my own Loki and it never triggered alien instincts, even when spamming the ability with no valid target.

Did they fix it? i did see a data push last night.

Who knows? Maybe they did...or not.
The reds have rapidly become ghosts on this site. It's quite sad.

Unknown

I just absolutely REKT'D a level 300+ Carnage and 270 IMHB with his buddy 290 C.Mags for 75 points. It wasn't that hard even. Used XF/IF/C.Mags. Saved up 15 purple, and like 9ish black, cast IF 3x, once for AP, twice for 8k damage, used SS to finish off Carnage. Now there are 12 / on the board, but who cares. 5 turns later there were 0 thanks to board degradation.

Killing Carnage is very easy. 1) Take most of the red, 2) Don't sweat the Attack tiles, 3) Beat him in the face with powers until he's down. Same as anyone else.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

I have 5/0/5 225 carnage, personally he makes PVP hilariously fast, doing 5600 damage boosted to 300 for 7 ap is insanely fast, he really is sentry 2.0, he's not overpowered like most people believe, he's definitely not sustainable for a climb cause of the 2k health to teamates, learned the hard way that hood doesn't do well with him #RIPHood

Voltemuse

DrDoom purple, Daken heal or Patch heal passives are properly done, as they are just announced by a very quick text message.
All other frequent passive that triggers all the time are itchy. especially in mirror matchs.
It would be great to give a maximum time very small for passive animations.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Haetron wrote:

He's not terrible to play with though, especially on certain PVE nodes.

I envy your scaling. The last thing you'd want on a node where the opponents have double the health you do (which describes most nodes for most people) is an ability that drains health from both sides equally.

Yeah, its not great, and I feel the 1 cover black is just, terrible. Which is why I have said its better to probably scale black up, since it's self damage doesn't rise, but the red cover does.

It doesn't drain health from both sides equally, either, because the AI doesn't really play smart, and will match away its own attack tiles, and you can aim for their tiles first as well. I mean, you will definitely be taking damage, don't get me wrong, and he can be a death sentence on goon nodes because of their rapid fire abilities, but in other match ups? With an average board and some careful play he can definitely be leveraged to your advantage.

And while Im at lower levels than most, my scaling has still went insane ever since I unlocked Carnage, so Im seeing double hp in opponents as well.

ayatorahxephon

So what's his best build for pvp tanking only? i guess 5 red is a must? how about maxing black or green? or even making 5/4/4 ?

ayatorahxephon

Well, Hulk Buster and Prof. X is still out there. They are so ridiculously OP that they have a huge gap between them and the rest of the other characters

Oldboy

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Well, Hulk Buster and Prof. X is still out there. They are so ridiculously OP that they have a huge gap between them and the rest of the other characters

They're not exactly OP. It's just that when you compare the 4*s they have a higher value in usage than the rest.
3* Thor is the 3* equivalent of Hulkbuster. Accelerate to Green/Yellow and you can deal out a ton of damage. But it takes time.
Prof X is like Hood in the sense that he's a major irritant if you leave him to last and you're better off taking him out first. He has no real active powers but generates a lot of support to screw you over. Leaving a max Prof X alone could very likely cause you to lose.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

simonsez wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Or maybe ever. Are we sure that 5/0/5 isn't the best build?

No, because you still wouldn't want to use him. Way too slow. I said it from minute one; his best build is 5/5/3, and his only use is as a scarecrow.

Having played with him extensively, his best build is definitely 5/3/5, only a difference of 34 damage on 2 tiles, meanwhile 3>5 green goes from max 4500 damage, to over 13k....kind of an obvious choice here, plus once you start putting out attack tiles it's not hard to hit 10+ tiles cause it doesn't differentiate between friendly and enemy tiles.

simonsez

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

once you start putting out attack tiles it's not hard to hit 10+ tiles cause it doesn't differentiate between friendly and enemy tiles.

I still don't get why you'd want to use a character that's going to lay out 1k+ in enemy attack tiles. That's not sustainable, and he's not part of the fastest hop combo.

TheOncomingStorm

I grow tiresome of trolls and those lacking true knowledge trying to pass off their little gleams of so called insight as wisdom.

This thread makes it really to easy to point these people out. The ones saying carnage is op should all have their posting privileges pulled until they get a better understanding of how this game works, or in the case of trolls, until they can leave their caves and bridges and join other people in real and intelligent conversation.

Unknown

Oldboy wrote:

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Well, Hulk Buster and Prof. X is still out there. They are so ridiculously OP that they have a huge gap between them and the rest of the other characters

They're not exactly OP. It's just that when you compare the 4*s they have a higher value in usage than the rest.
3* Thor is the 3* equivalent of Hulkbuster. Accelerate to Green/Yellow and you can deal out a ton of damage. But it takes time.
Prof X is like Hood in the sense that he's a major irritant if you leave him to last and you're better off taking him out first. He has no real active powers but generates a lot of support to screw you over. Leaving a max Prof X alone could very likely cause you to lose.

Ehh....I'd give hulkbuster and X a little more credit than being "4* version of CHARACTER"

Unknown

Anyone try out Doom SG and Carnage yet? Its complex and costly but her yellow into Doom blue then black into Carnage red then green? That's a whole lotta hurt (yeah for a whole lotta AP but whatever, details.)
Anyway, the goon thing is no different than Beast or Grocket blue. It's set up but costs the AP. You don't spend the AP after the tile resolves do you?

Unknown

Im wondering why a conversation about Carnage's PVP viability is occurring on a thread about his impact on goon nodes. O.o

With a little luck, and a little skill, he punches way above his weight class on goon nodes, and with the right partners to mitigate his downside, I'd say he'd perform even better, but I don't have those characters sufficiently leveled/covered to check it out. He's gotten me through a few tough pve nodes however, by tossing him in with 2 expendable friends. Im really liking Groot teamed with him, personally. Im sure there's even better pairings, (DD, SG, Loki come to mind, but I haven't been playing long and so not sure of the perfect pairings.)

I still am of the opining the at 1 cover is terrible due to being near equal damage, but maybe 3 is it's best cap. I hadn't taken into consideration the possibility on the higher end green breaking more likely hitting the tiles, and the possible damage increase. I know at 1/1/1 his Green is probably my least favorite of his powers, because the payoff just isn't there most of the time.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

ayatorahxephon wrote:

So what's his best build for pvp tanking only? i guess 5 red is a must? how about maxing black or green? or even making 5/4/4 ?

His best build is 5/3/5 cause there's barely a difference between 3>5 black, 34 damage per attack tile.
3>5 is a HUGE difference, 10 tiles destroyed for 451 damage each special tile destroyed vs 16 tiles destroyed for 651 damage per special tile destroyed.

simonsez

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

His best build is 5/3/5 cause there's barely a difference between 3>5 black, 34 damage per attack tile.
3>5 is a HUGE difference, 10 tiles destroyed for 451 damage each special tile destroyed vs 16 tiles destroyed for 651 damage per special tile destroyed.

This seems like a compelling argument, but if you work out the math, under any assumption of n special tiles on the board, the damage difference (not including extra cascade potential) between green3 and green5 can be equalled by about 5.7 turns of black5 vs black3. And the damage per AP of green is awful. Even if you assume half the entire board is special tiles, it's only doing about 500 damage per AP. Then you've got the downside that it's indiscriminate and can leave you worse off by killing more friendlies. I don't want to end up in a situation where I'm getting killed in a battle of attrition, and black5 and using someone else's green makes sure that doesn't happen.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

simonsez wrote:

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

His best build is 5/3/5 cause there's barely a difference between 3>5 black, 34 damage per attack tile.
3>5 is a HUGE difference, 10 tiles destroyed for 451 damage each special tile destroyed vs 16 tiles destroyed for 651 damage per special tile destroyed.

This seems like a compelling argument, but if you work out the math, under any assumption of n special tiles on the board, the damage difference (not including extra cascade potential) between green3 and green5 can be equalled by about 5.7 turns of black5 vs black3. And the damage per AP of green is awful. Even if you assume half the entire board is special tiles, it's only doing about 500 damage per AP. Then you've got the downside that it's indiscriminate and can leave you worse off by killing more friendlies. I don't want to end up in a situation where I'm getting killed in a battle of attrition, and black5 and using someone else's green makes sure that doesn't happen.

If you let the game on for an extra 6 turns, then you're increasing your chances of dying or carnage getting his red off, id rather maximize my damage potential to kill of a character about to use an ability than play a game of attrition.