Changes To Scoring In Versus Events

lukewin

Demiurge_Will wrote:

There was a loophole in the scoring system that allowed players to coordinate to gain lots of points very quickly, by intentionally losing to one another. We’ve closed that loophole by reducing the amount of points gained from a defensive win to ⅓ of what it was previously. The defender currently wins in a Versus match only about 10% of the time, so this has a small impact on players who weren’t intentionally losing to one another. We’re taking that into account with the next change:

Changes we made to Versus matchmaking in Season XIII increased average Versus fight times by about 30%. We want to reduce the time that it takes to climb the leaderboards and add some additional points into the system to make up for those lost from the change to how defensive wins are scored. We’re increasing the points value of each Versus mission by 50%.

....

I’m excited to make Versus faster and fairer, and I’m looking forward to getting these changes into your hands!

Glad you closed the loophole, wish I had been able to use it while it was around. I am shielded til the end in Falcon PVP, might break for one last fight, don't know yet, but I do think you have acheived your goal of wanting to reduce the time that it takes to climb the leaderboards.

lukewin wrote:

I've played the Falcon PVP, and so far, I have to say I'm loving the changes. Could just all be coincidental, but I don't know. Yesterday I climbed and got the token at 650. Was going for the HP at 725, but got attacked and ran out of healthpacks before I could grab it. Knocked down over 200 pts overnight, I think. Since I've cleared the Gauntlet, and no PVE to grind or hit a refresh (awesome break to have), I went back to PVP. I climbed again, got the HP at 725, and would've had the cover at 800 but my tablet froze. By the time I restarted, I had been hit a couple times, so gave it a break. Fell back down to 586. Took another break, then went back. Within an hour of being at 586, I was able to grab the cover at 800 and the HP at 850, and then an attack came in, and I got knocked down to 811. Since I'm only trying to use 1 shield / PVP, to conserve all my HP for roster slots, I'm not gonna shield til the last 3 hours, but nice to know I can climb off retals and get above 600/700 to finish.

When I started my final push, I had got knocked down to 499. I started my final push with 2.5 hrs to go in the event. First retal was worth 72 (did not know that til I won), so up to 571. In a little over an hr, I think, I was able to climb off retals and matches I found, to get up to 852. Used all 5 healthpacks, but only Falcon, Patch/Loki or LDaken/Blade. If I would've used other characters, I probably could've played longer. If I had won my final match, I'd be around 890. But I lost, and shielded with 823.

It was a great feeling to see my score climb that high, with such few matches, as opposed to the old system, where it took a long time to get to a similar score. I did lose 55 pts in one attack to someone in the 200s, and while that would've upset me a lot in the old system / frustrate / demoralize me to want to take a break, it would only take one or two matches to make it up, and I was already at a pretty good score, after the hit, so I didn't mind it.

Would also like to reiterate that it was awesome to have a break from PVE.

puppychow wrote:

lukewin wrote:

I'm not gonna shield til the last 3 hours, but nice to know I can climb off retals and get above 600/700 to finish.

The problem is no longer finding high value targets, because the score inflation has eliminated that issue. The remaining problems as I see it are: a) do you have the time to make the final push? b) are you willing to buy heal packs when your 5 runs out? The answer to both will determine how high players can realistically climb.

I was happy with where I've finished. I didn't have a problem finding high value targets. Previous seasons, I'd end up with scores in the 600s/700s. Going for the 800 cover was not too realistic an option, without using at least 2 shields and coordinating targets for hops. This PVP, I didn't use any outside communication to line up targets, and I didn't need to.

puppychow wrote:

My fear is that when the data comes in on how many players (as a %) reach the 1,000 points reward for falcon, and the developers feel the number is too high, they will revise scoring DOWNWARD. Not a prediction. My fear.

My fear too. Please don't alter the progression reward score requirements.

johnaaron33 wrote:

Salgy wrote:

Agreed with all that have played falcon's pvp that points are easier to come by... Climbed to 850 and with one hop hit 1010... My fear is that we will see the progression rewards moved up, if not back to their old levels, then pretty close to it... It just seems easier now

It they do that, then the Forum will not be a nice place to be for a while after that.

The Devs specifically said they wanted more people to hit the progression rewards. Well, they got what they wanted. If they take it back now, I will be helping hand out the pitch forks and torches for all those interested.

If they move the Progression targets back to higher amounts, then it will show just how little they think of this game and its playerbase.

This is the one way that they can mess up this change. I really hope that they do not alter the progression reward score requirements. If they do, I will take one pitch fork and torch for myself, and also help you hand them out.

Final thought, I do like the change. It has made the climb easier, and more progression rewards obtainable, both of which improved my morale in regards to PVP. It has swapped how things used to be, in regards to placement / progression rewards. It used to be harder to gain progression rewards and easier to place higher. Now it seems to be easier to gain progression rewards and harder to place higher. I think my current score would've definitely got me T25, if not in the teens, but I will be happy with getting T50. Currently 34th with 823. T10 all have over 1k.

Oldboy

It was a glorious event for me. I flew high on Falcon's wings and for the FIRST time ever broke past 750 pts and hit 1017 with 20 minutes to go. I was number 1! It was magnificent!...

... Alas I foolishly basked in the glory of being so near the sun that i forgot to shield and in 2 minutes the first waves of attacks/retal hit. First for 45 pts, then 80+ and finally 140+ pts. Like Icarus i crashed to earth as quickly as i went up the leaderboards to finish at rank 30.

Unknown

Oldboy wrote:

It was a glorious event for me. I flew high on Falcon's wings and for the FIRST time ever broke past 750 pts and hit 1017 with 20 minutes to go. I was number 1! It was magnificent!...

... Alas I foolishly basked in the glory of being so near the sun that i forgot to shield and in 2 minutes the first waves of attacks/retal hit. First for 45 pts, then 80+ and finally 140+ pts. Like Icarus i crashed to earth as quickly as i went up the leaderboards to finish at rank 30.

Pay them or suffer

vinnygecko

This was a much easier climb for me as well with Falcon PVP. I hit 1000 for the first time since before any of the mmr changes were made to pvp (months/seasons ago). I also greatly lucked out in that I did not get attacked once, and I was able to find matches all worth 35 pts or higher (though it took some skipping).

Also hoping for no changes to the progression rewards, but we shall see...

Konman

Makes shields more critical than ever. Losing so many more points than previously, and a score that would have had me top 25 before, I am not even top 100. Got a higher progression than usual, but that is counteracted by the loss of placement rewards.

So far, not a fan.

Azoic

I don't know what changed, but there seems to be a greater disparity between listed and earned points. I queued up a few matches before breaking my shield. The 41 node gave 20, the 38 node gave...7. I was about to break 900 with that last one and just got screwed, then hit for a loss I wouldn't have risked for a **** 7 points.

snlf25

I have a team perfectly suited for the Falcon event. Fully covered Falcon, fully covered and 166 Captain Marvel and Lazy Cap on PED so I decided to go for it. I was doing this between 1 and 3 AM figuring that is when I'd have my best shot. I was around 650 points when I made my final push which was super easy to hit. Got up to 940 and started getting and ended up back in the 700 range because I was out of health packs. Waited a bit to get a couple and surged back up to 875. Decided to buy 5 packs. got to 978, fought one last battle which should have put me over 1000. Somebody had hit him while I was fighting him so I got stuck at 999! Bought two more health packs and swapped out Carol for Thor and passed the mark ending at 1032 and getting my first StarLord. Didn't care about placement so I didn't waste money on shield with a little over two hours left in my slice. I woke up this morning to find I'd finished with 638 points. I didn't keep exact numbers so my best estimate is that I had to earn 1400 or so points to end with 638. I only had two defensive wins in the entire event for a paltry 35 points.

So my observations one event in:

I can do it, given the right circumstances and the willingness to spend between 300 and 500 hero points. Spent 300 this time.

Loses on defense are too costly and I believe this effectively ends the ability anybody had to finish "above their weight class" I used to pull top 100 wins when I was a two star all the time. I don't know if that would even be possible now. Three loses can cost 150 points now. It will be really interesting to see how lower powered rosters do and if 2* to 3* transitioners will still be able to place and earn season 10 packs.

Seems like the glass ceiling just got lowered for people not willing to spend on health packs. Going to be a lot harder to retain points from this point forward but it's easier to hit progression hp rewards now so maybe that will help wash it out.

The last hour or two of every event will be an absolute feeding frenzy and I bet while median and average scores go up less people will be able to hold on and get the 1000 point progression. I would not have had a chance in hell even if I spent a million dollars if I hadn't done it in the dead of the night because with elevated health and boosted characters you can't earn anywhere remotely as fast as you lose.

aesthetocyst

Azoic wrote:

I don't know what changed, but there seems to be a greater disparity between listed and earned points. I queued up a few matches before breaking my shield. The 41 node gave 20, the 38 node gave...7. I was about to break 900 with that last one and just got screwed, then hit for a loss I wouldn't have risked for a **** 7 points.

With the increased pts, faster climbs, and faster falls, there is increased focus on weaker players who are father ahead of the pack than their roster can support. If they aren't shielding they will fall fast.

Pt values in queues have always been outdated, this change have made this problem more acute. If you have someone queued for awhile, or haven't refreshed your queues in a while (by fighting and doing some skipping), you can't trust the points shown.

DrNitroman

With the Gauntlet running, I didn't have much time for Falcon PvP.
With the recent changes to scoring, in the last hour I managed to climb from 300 to 750 points.
Way faster than before and more rewarding, sure!

Therefore I would say it's a positive change.
But I think it's too early to conclude about these changes.
Today I have experienced the positive side: the more rewarding fights.
But I haven't experienced the potentially negative side: the cost of defensive losses

We'll see after a few PvP

jimstarooney

The new pts system is great, got my 1st 1k since mmr was changed so I love it!

DrNitroman

Now I'm really curious to read the experiences of everyone with the new system.

Especially, I wonder what is the best strategy for 1000 progression if you aren't interested in ranking:
Is it possible with fewer shields than before? without shield for the faster ones?
I was never interested in shield-hopping, two much planification for me, and I consequently stop trying high scores.

But I could resume trying if ever the new system allows rushing to 1000 before retaliations....

aesthetocyst

DrNitroman wrote:

Now I'm really curious to read the experiences of everyone with the new system.

Especially, I wonder what is the best strategy for 1000 progression if you aren't interested in ranking:
Is it possible with fewer shields than before? without shield for the faster ones?
I was never interested in shield-hopping, two much planification for me, and I consequently stop trying high scores.

But I could resume trying if ever the new system allows rushing to 1000 before retaliations....

Alliancemates that went in early got there with 1 or 2 shields along the way before shielding over 1K.

Strong 4* rosters with some coordination can get there in one rush.

Players that started last day, and are trying to make 1K in last 12hrs, are having a much harder time of it. Easier than it was, but for many, it was utter hell to get 1K recently.

SO....if you're willing to start early and spend on #s, and are a strong 3* player, 1K is very reachable it seems. If things go your way, it may take less....a 3hr and an 8hr to the end. But I wouldn't plan on it if you REALLY want the 1K. Plan on a 3- 8- and 24hr.

Unknown

DrNitroman wrote:

Now I'm really curious to read the experiences of everyone with the new system.

Especially, I wonder what is the best strategy for 1000 progression if you aren't interested in ranking:
Is it possible with fewer shields than before? without shield for the faster ones?
I was never interested in shield-hopping, two much planification for me, and I consequently stop trying high scores.

But I could resume trying if ever the new system allows rushing to 1000 before retaliations....

I've read in other threads that some people are pushing well into 800-900 points before shielding, letting the retals bounce off for a bit while their health packs regen, then jumping up over 1000. I was looking at the alliance leader boards and the points of those members of the top 10, and I seen A LOT of 1500+ scores earlier.

DrNitroman

aesthetocyst wrote:

Alliancemates that went in early got there with 1 or 2 shields along the way before shielding over 1K.

johnaaron33 wrote:

I've read in other threads that some people are pushing well into 800-900 points before shielding, letting the retals bounce off for a bit while their health packs regen, then jumping up over 1000.

Interesting.
I went to 750 without any retals and I have an alliance who push just above 800 before suffering (strong) retals. The thing is, at 750 I was seeing very strong 3* teams but nothing impossible.
Like you, my guess is that it should be possible to reach 800 without too much difficulty, shield for a break then resume for 1000 in one streak.

Probably 24h before PvP end I suppose. And I still have to find a schedule that suits me.
...and consider that the competiton (and retals) will be probably higher after Gauntlet.
Well, at the moment, its a 'maybe'!

Der_Lex

All right, I'll take back my reservations: I just did a climb from 0 to 1k in the final two hours of shard 3.

Although this new scoring system might heavily favor late starters, which could be an issue in itself in the long run.

Unknown

This morning, woke up, saw I had been hit for 170 points, down to about 590, and thought "I'm going to hate this."

Didn't climb then - wasn't up to it after one of the biggest drops I've ever had. With about 2 hours left - down another 27 - climbed back up to 750, but wasn't even in the top 50 (maybe not top 100). Figured I should do some climbing at least.

Long story short, didn't get hit once on the back end, didn't shield once, didn't buy one health pack, didn't change my team at all, and crossed to 1004 points with about 1 minute left.

Now I'm thinking I may enjoy the new system. I"ll be curious what happens with a cover people need in the next event.

I will add this though - my initial concerns that this would encourage late climbing appeared to have been at least partially valid. Most of what I did Saturday didn't really accomplish much.

SuperSkrull

So far loving the new point changes. First time for a very long time PvP felt fun and exciting. Normally I score between 550-650 for PvP, before and after MMR change (after felt like a soul crushing grind). Climbed to 860 before shielding. 1 hopped to 960 but got greedy and got slapped down to 905 in last hour of PvP. Even still this is the highest I've got in PvP beating my personal record of 825. I normally play slice 3 where mostly only top 5 reach 1000+, this time at least t20 hit the 4* with an hour still to go.

So here's the thing, the climb was fun and the time it took felt appropriate for a mobile/match-3 game; hitting those higher progression points, whilst trying to navigate the feeding frenzy, felt rewarding and exciting whilst still feeling achievable. This is something MPQ hadn't made me feel in a long time! Even though final placement will be affected, the 3-4* transition has been partially boosted, something the game is sorely missing. Okay, it is only one PvP and it is too early to fully assess the impact, but I've enjoyed it so far. Good job Devs!

SnowcaTT

SnowcaTT wrote:

My biggest concern with the change isn't folks getting points, it is when they'll get them. If matches are worth more, I expect many will go strongly back to "steam-roll everyone in the last four hours" - which makes it hard to find anyone worth points for those without the best rosters that have to climb early, and makes them juicy targets as not ideal rosters with the highest points later on.

Yep. Had three team-mates try out where 1K unshielded would leave them - near the end of their slices they were all hit down to 600 or less.

The high points (and high retall values) will make shielding absolutely mandatory, late pushes will become all the more common.

Dauthi

I used 250 IMHB+ 150 IF, went to bed with about 550 points, and got attacked once over night for 30. I started playing this morning, and walked my way up to 1150 with 2 attacks (one was a defensive win) over about 6 hours (I took hour breaks at 600 and 770 to get healthpacks maxed). It was unreal, even at 1150 I only stopped because I was out of healthpacks and wanted a break.

Judging from comments the system still works as it did before, if you are going unshielded for 6+hours you should only be at about 30% of your maximum points you could normally get. If you don't follow this rule of thumb you will get harder than before the changes.

Unknown

I just shield hopped at 850 points. While I was in the first match that took 4 minutes I lost 280 points.. Why is that possible?!?!