Lethal Intent Versus Matchmaking Poll

whitecat31

skippytx wrote:

I'm much happier with the changes to PVP. Now I feel like the only thing stopping me from being competitive is how much time and strategy I put into the game. I have a 57 man roster but everyone is level 94 or less and now instead of hitting a wall I get matched with teams around my own roster strength. I haven't hit a wall of 166/270 characters at all in the last few PVP's. I usually only go for 500 points or so though, I'm sure the wall will show up if I go for say 800 pts or whatever.

Congratulations you have gamed the system. The matchmaking rating system makes you invisible to almost every other player in your bracket and time shard. You get to enjoy using any of your characters you want climbing, while veterans have to use a specific roster to advance. You of course will have fun. Keep your roster the way you have it. You are one of the lucky ones. You already have it made in PVE as well, since the scaling will be easy for you as well.
I am actually rather envious.

Phillipes

skippytx wrote:

I'm much happier with the changes to PVP. Now I feel like the only thing stopping me from being competitive is how much time and strategy I put into the game. I have a 57 man roster but everyone is level 94 or less and now instead of hitting a wall I get matched with teams around my own roster strength. I haven't hit a wall of 166/270 characters at all in the last few PVP's. I usually only go for 500 points or so though, I'm sure the wall will show up if I go for say 800 pts or whatever.

It is horrible that you can score 800 with 2*, without too much effort, while I have (previosly) end-game PVP roster and I´m struggling and fighting to last minute to achieve just the same score as you - 800.

Enjoy it while it last. You will make mistake and level some of your characters and you will sudenly be in veteran bracket, where you won´t score even 500.

You know, this is really the worst thing of the game.
I was able to score 1000 regulary, now I´m needed to play 2x more to score just 800. Where is progression in that ?

SnagglePuss

Reporting in from the Thor and Gamora event

Thor - Similar to KP MMR, ran out of time/Health pack but pushed up. Mix around/under 94 up to about 250, from their it's mainly max 2* land to about 400pts. From their it started to ramp up to amix of 2*/3*.

Gamora - The MM in this was worse than Thor/KP in that almost every team faced was some type of max 2*. It's doable but health pack, just long and heavy process. This was compounded by a run of very bad boards/lucky cascades... It's a conspiracy i tell you.

Elayne

I had to say worse, but I am not sure if it is because of the MMR or because of the character changes and Health point increase to characters making matches longer. I have 13 maxed three stars and one maxed four star - Xforce who was drastically changed. I was losing a lot more match and spending a lot more health packs. Previous PVP I almost made 1k. This pvp I made 600. I was using a good deal of my 13 maxed 3* characters in various combinations and once I hit about 500, I was losing about a third of my matches when I had to rotate characters to low to no health packs. I could not play more than 2 to 3 matches at once which makes PVP a slow climb or a slog. I am not enjoying the expirence.

dr tinykittylove

Vet: Day 444?
Have played all the pvps this season through the various tweaks. Average score (+/-800) unchanged.

In brief: New mmr does not work as intended.

Apart from the first event, was it Smash Hit? in which everyone was facing 270/270/290 matchups after the seed teams and getting attacked aggressively, I'm finding the new tweaked versions (up to and including Lethal Intent) indistinguishable from the old mmr.

That is to say, my offered matchups run the entire range from 2*s to mixed early to late transition teams to 166s and some 270s at the high end of scores, through most of the event up to about 700.

In Shield Sim, out of 5 nodes, on average 1 is maxed 166/high level 4*s, 1 is mixed 140-166 late transition teams, 1 is mid-transition, and 2 are 2* mixed with low level 3*s.

For reference, my roster: (Not counting Quicksilver)

- I have 2 x 11-cover 3*s and 3 x 12-cover 3*s, levels between 94 to 153.
- All the rest of the 3*s are max-covered. Meaning all of the existing 3*s in the game. Out of this rabble, 16 are level 153. The rest range between 94 to 141.
- My highest leveled characters are max-covered Fury and XF at 155.

It's fairly obvious that the new mmr has no idea what to make of my roster. Wasn't it supposed to be protecting the 2*s and early transitioners from me? Presumably, if they're being handed to me to be crushed underfoot, I'm also being planted in their way as a roadblock.

The whole problem with this notion of matching players by level is simply that because of rarity tiers, it really isn't the levels that count. A softcapped 111 4* is very much not equal to a softcapped 102 3* who is in no way equal to the humble max-covered 94 2*. Conversely, a max-covered level 140 3*/4* can readily go toe-to-toe with any number of 166/270 teams, just more vulnerable to bad luck.

Match players by scores, not roster levels, have separate mmrs for each event to prevent tanking, and let the player tiers sift out naturally. Reducing the point loss at lower scores is a step in the right direction in reducing the negative impact on new players, as is adjusting the progression rewards.

Thank you for continuing to try and make adjustments to help players, but this artificial segregation is not the way.

darkmagearcanis

My issue with the Matchmaking is that I get boxed in with the same 5 people on all three nodes when I hit 650+ points. I'm not sandboxed. If I skip I will see another of the 5 people. This makes it hard to compete when I have a slower team that it takes me 5-10 minutes to do one match and then come out with a +14 points and then at the same time get hit for -93 from 1 enemy because they attacked me 3 times before I got done with 1 match. So I net a -79 points. I can then only retaliate one time of the person who attacked me 3 times and for a measily 15-20 points. Where is the balance in that?

Unknown

darkmagearcanis wrote:

My issue with the Matchmaking is that I get boxed in with the same 5 people on all three nodes when I hit 650+ points. I'm not sandboxed. If I skip I will see another of the 5 people.

That's something I've noticed as well - I've gotten on tiny, tiny MMR islands much more frequently with the new system.

famousfoxking

Lethal Intent match making was good, but different. I see difficulty "peaks" at various places, but then troughs of high-value low difficulty targets after I cross the peak. So, I would see an ocean of 166s/250+s right after the seed teams were clear, then once I'd cleared about three of those and hit 200, I'd see reasonable, even easy matches. Then I'd hit another peak, then see reasonable matches. The "troughs" definitely increased in difficulty as I progressed, but I was able to hit 800 for the first time since the MMR changes, with fairly minimal hopping.

Edit: OH! I forgot to mention I saw MASSIVE variety during the entire climb, which was good. Maybe even worth the harder climb. Pretty much the only time I fought the same team over and over again was if I was hitting the same guy (which I try not to do, but points is points).

simonsez

Assuming you guys will be tweaking matchmaking again, can you STOP showing me battles worth 3 points? I'm not going to fight those people. EVER. And if anyone else thinks it's a good idea to take those fights, you need to protect those people from themselves. I waste way too much ISO having to skip past fights you shouldn't be showing me in the first place.

puppychow

Phillipes wrote:

skippytx wrote:

I'm much happier with the changes to PVP. Now I feel like the only thing stopping me from being competitive is how much time and strategy I put into the game. I have a 57 man roster but everyone is level 94 or less and now instead of hitting a wall I get matched with teams around my own roster strength. I haven't hit a wall of 166/270 characters at all in the last few PVP's. I usually only go for 500 points or so though, I'm sure the wall will show up if I go for say 800 pts or whatever.

It is horrible that you can score 800 with 2*, without too much effort, while I have (previosly) end-game PVP roster and I´m struggling and fighting to last minute to achieve just the same score as you - 800.

Enjoy it while it last. You will make mistake and level some of your characters and you will sudenly be in veteran bracket, where you won´t score even 500.

You know, this is really the worst thing of the game.
I was able to score 1000 regulary, now I´m needed to play 2x more to score just 800. Where is progression in that ?

I think you misread. The poster said he doesn't hit pass 500 in pvp. He theorized that the max wall will show *IF* he decides to climb higher, to like 800. I'm sure he places well in pvp/pve (relatively speaking), but limiting his team to 94s mean that he has NO CHANCE EVER at taking the top slots of any pvp/pve event.

Contrast that with my approach. I have every character in the game in my roster, most having max covered. My highest character is a 553 xf at 180, and then maybe a half dozen max 3*, plus another bunch of 130-140s 3*, plus some maxed 2* and 1* (yes including IM35, jug, venom, etc.). For the last two pve events, I placed 2nd and 1st. For Lethal Intent I placed top 25 with mid 800s. For the season, I'm expecting at least 10,000 season points with a shot at top 25 in my season bracket.

If the guy wants to game the system and not live up to the potential of his roster, that is his choice. On the other hand, I have set my roster to put myself in a position to take top slots in pve, as well as pvp events. Which is the better approach? You tell me.

puppychow

famousfoxking wrote:

Edit: OH! I forgot to mention I saw MASSIVE variety during the entire climb, which was good. Maybe even worth the harder climb. Pretty much the only time I fought the same team over and over again was if I was hitting the same guy (which I try not to do, but points is points).

The reason for the variety is because people are still feeling their way adjusting to the character changes of 4/17. Depending on the roster, people will either sell off their xfs to buy covers for other characters or stay the same. It remains to be seen which combo is the new "IT" team a la gt/xf.

puppychow

Phantron wrote:

In the Gamora event I still see a lot of X Forces even though doubling up on green/black is an incredibly bad idea in terms of team composition, but you can't make those guys use Nick Fury instead who has a much better complimentary color to Gamora, and I wouldn't be surprised if I got attacked quite a bit because I had Nick Fury and most people had idea how he worked even though he's probably the best 4* to use that event since his colors are completely complimentary to Gamora's.

While it's true that Fury's colors are complimentary to Gamora's, you also need to look at it from a dmg tanking perspective. If I have xf/gamora teamup, bk and gr will be tanked by gamora, who will probably have more health than xf. So if you focused on making gr/bk matches, it's more likely gamora will take the bulk of the dmg from the enemy rather than have it split between the 2 characters. I'd rather use 1 heal pack (on Gamora) after a match than 2 packs (on xf too). So strictly from a heal pack conservation perspective, xf/gamora combo is better fury/gamora to split the dmg.

I personally have no hesitation in attacking a max fury team. he takes a while to get his colors/abilities going, and as long as you can play denial for his colors you could even save fury for last in terms of targets to attack.

Unknown

puppychow wrote:

Phantron wrote:

In the Gamora event I still see a lot of X Forces even though doubling up on green/black is an incredibly bad idea in terms of team composition, but you can't make those guys use Nick Fury instead who has a much better complimentary color to Gamora, and I wouldn't be surprised if I got attacked quite a bit because I had Nick Fury and most people had idea how he worked even though he's probably the best 4* to use that event since his colors are completely complimentary to Gamora's.

While it's true that Fury's colors are complimentary to Gamora's, you also need to look at it from a dmg tanking perspective. If I have xf/gamora teamup, bk and gr will be tanked by gamora, who will probably have more health than xf. So if you focused on making gr/bk matches, it's more likely gamora will take the bulk of the dmg from the enemy rather than have it split between the 2 characters. I'd rather use 1 heal pack (on Gamora) after a match than 2 packs (on xf too). So strictly from a heal pack conservation perspective, xf/gamora combo is better fury/gamora to split the dmg.

I personally have no hesitation in attacking a max fury team. he takes a while to get his colors/abilities going, and as long as you can play denial for his colors you could even save fury for last in terms of targets to attack.

Just want to mention a LOT more ppl have a covered and levelled (some way if not fully) XForce than a Fury. That alone probably explains what Phantron saw for obvious reasons.... just cause you change the balancing of characters doesn't mean everyone gets a free max cover near-max level Fury to start using instead of their Xforce and we all know the laughable Xforce sale rate doesn't let you simply move your resources over to a usable alternative in one go.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Assuming you guys will be tweaking matchmaking again, can you STOP showing me battles worth 3 points? I'm not going to fight those people. EVER. And if anyone else thinks it's a good idea to take those fights, you need to protect those people from themselves. I waste way too much ISO having to skip past fights you shouldn't be showing me in the first place.

I think the powers-that-be must lie awake at night in fear of anything that puts too many points into the system. Because losing 50 points to an attack and being offered a 1 point retaliation makes a lot of sense too, right? There should probably be a minimum number of points that are always available in battles, particularly at the high end where everyone is shielded 99% of the time. Why should you be penalized because you're the only one who is playing when everyone else around you in the standings is turtled up? Just so you can be the one with the giant neon target on your back that allows everyone within 500 points to take a run at you when you stick your head out?

And you wonder why people have resorted to using out-of-game communication to trade wins. It's the only way to game another broken system that conspires to prevent the vast majority of the populous from reaching those tempting progression rewards, without which it really wouldn't matter how many points were injected into the pool. It all comes back to them aggressively protecting cover rarity, because that's what all their revenue streams are wrapped up in. If they would stop stubbornly refusing to explore other means of making their money so much of this tight control would be unnecessary.

mrflopwelligan

The first 2 events of the season I did ridiculously well - like crazy, awesome well. But then, yeeesh. It was awful. I would get 3, maybe 6 seed teams then everything was maxed out super teams.

I have had decent luck jumping in with less than 24 hours left on a shard.

Malcrof

What happened those last couple hours??? I went to bed sitting at #77, shielded, woke up.. and did not finish top 100 for a cover

Spent about 1500 Iso on skips last night, could not find any fights i had a prayer at winning to help me get a higher rank, first time ever, went to bed with 4 heals left.. this event was going great until yesterday..

GuntherBlobel

Is the Blue Shift MMR the same as Lethal Intent?

Unknown

Many good arguments made on both sides of the new matchmaking issue.
Leaving "fairness to vets or newbies" issues aside, I think I can see the way this is going to develop for me.
I have two 270's ( Xfor & Dino ), 10 166 lvl 3 stars, and about 50 1,2, & 3 stars at various lvls, played 375 days.

The new changes mean I will have to invest a lot more time , a lot more game resources, and possibly
hard cash to earn anything like the rewards in PVP that I used to. Which were somewhere in the 600-700
range usually, but I rarely use shields, saving that HP for the ever more expensive roster slots.

I'm in a fairly weak 8 man private alliance with 1 player who is a long time vet, and some recent joiners who
are newbies. My vet player no longer getting good rewards, while our newbies are placing top 10 in many
events, even a #1 finish. They are pumped, and I'm happy for them. It is nice to be excited about the game.

For me it will probably come down to an unwillingness to spend any more time than I already do ( about 2 hrs / day )
on this game. I'll hit the Daily Deadpool, and then , who knows?

As for my poll question answer, new system is bad. Seed teams immediately followed by max, max, max & I'm getting
attacked regularly as soon as I hit 200 now, instead of 400-500. I think the new system will feel like a total slogfest.

Stax the Foyer

simonsez wrote:

Assuming you guys will be tweaking matchmaking again, can you STOP showing me battles worth 3 points? I'm not going to fight those people. EVER. And if anyone else thinks it's a good idea to take those fights, you need to protect those people from themselves. I waste way too much ISO having to skip past fights you shouldn't be showing me in the first place.

Agreed, there's clearly some kind of cutoff, since we're not able to queue down the same way people can queue up. It'd make sense to set that cutoff higher.

Also, when you're at the top of your bracket and everyone's shielded, all of your nodes should be replaced with the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ guy.

Unknown

I used to be able to get up to 400 points in most PvP events to earn the 25 HP and end the event somewhere in the top 200. Now I'm lucky if I can get 300 points for the event cover and end in the top 300.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong as I typically run a 5/2/5 Hulk, 1/5/5 X-Force Wolverine and the featured character. I'm now seeing super high teams after the initial 3 lowbies and buring health packs like nobody's business.