Lethal Intent Versus Matchmaking Poll

Demiurge_Kabir

Hey everyone,
The last update to our Versus matchmaking was during the Kingpin event on Monday 4/13, and the feedback has died down since then. If you've played the current Gamora (or Thor) events, can you chime in and let us know how it's working for you?

If you think the experience is worse than before, please follow up with a post that describes how long you've been playing, and what you're experiencing. If you can include a shot of the characters you're using and their levels, that would be awesome.

Update: Added clarification for 'before'; I'm interested in hearing if our changes have made the matches you're playing more fun.

Thanks,
Kabir

orionpeace

Kabir,

Can you clarify the "before" aspect of the poll?

Do you mean before you started tweaking MMR?
-OR-
Do you mean is it better/worse than it was in the previous Event, but after you started tweaking MMR?

I want to be sure my response is accurate and in accord with your defined terms.

Thanks!

EDIT: Also, you may want to PIN your poll.

Nonce Equitaur 2

There should be an option "I can't tell the difference"

I mostly see nothing but blockbuster superteams as soon as I clear the seed teams.

Unknown

"Better than before" but now there is a new problem. It's possible to enter into point deserts where the matching will only return people worth 5 points or fewer.

sinnerjfl

Running into a wall of maxed featured/270 ****/166 *** right after seed teams. I have to skip a lot to get any matches that wont take 10 minutes. This is awful and makes PVP a chore.

Im on day 482, 12 maxed ***'s, 2 ****'s at 220, plenty of other ***'s sitting around 100.

simonsez

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

If you think the experience is worse than before, please follow up with a post that describes how long you've been playing, and what you're experiencing. If you can include a shot of the characters you're using and their levels, that would be awesome.

It's way worse than it was before you started screwing around with it, and slightly better than the very first event after the change.

I'm using maxed LT, XF, and either Hood or Loki. Unless I'm extremely lucky, I don't leave any matchup without needing health packs. PvP shouldn't be this tedious. And the nerf and health buff is only going to make it even more tedious.

GrumpySmurf1002

I agree about needing clarification on 'before,' but even then I'm not sure how to answer.

Between 0-600, Hostile Takeover was definitely much better than Heavy Metal/Smash Hit.
Equilibrium points for the new MMR are still much lower (100-150 points) than Kamala, so that's not good, but it's at least manageable.

After 800 pts, H.T. was worse than Teenage Riot relative to finding targets worth 10+ points. But that could be a time slice thing, I'm not sure.

1000 pt progression seems impossible with any of the new changes.

I have a 220ish XForce, max Thor/Cap/Grocket/Hood, and 15-20 others between 110-163.

sinnerjfl

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Um... yes they should. Because they are new. How else are they to progress? And PvP isn't handing them anything, they have to work for it. Now that you also have to work for it isn't a bad thing.

New player's shouldn't have to deal with constant PvP oppression and not being able to even score 300 points because they are mostly just farm fodder for the point ladder.

My placement before and after the MMR change has been basically the same, it just takes more time/health packs/effort to get there.

Also the name of the thread and the content of the post pretty clearly shows that "before" in "better or worse than before" means "Before Kingpin".

DrStrange-616

simonsez wrote:

It's way worse than it was before you started screwing around with it, and slightly better than the very first event after the change.

This. Not sure how to answer the poll.

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Im sorry that you cant stomp us new and transitioning players anymore. I understand your frustation. Must be hell

fmftint

Kingpin matchmaking was great
Thor matchmaking was terrible
Havent played Gamora yet

eaise

As a 2*-3* transitioner I have gotten higher points and better rankings thanks to the new MMR. I used to see 166/270 teams at 400. Now I can get over 500 every PvP.
The new MMR is better than any previous MMR. I do get attacked quite a bit more. But overall come out with more points
Please keep the new MMR!

elvy75

For me its also worse than before. Before Lthor pvp i had non maxed 3* until some 500, then maxed 3*/4* teams, after 700 was mostly maxed 4*.

Now i started off with maxed 3*/4* teams, with occasional non maxed 3* team. I am currently at 800 points, but its been tedious to get there.

My roster is consisting of two 4* (270 xforce, 250 4or) and 10 maxed 3*

SnowcaTT

Voted "worse", but worse than the two-weeks ago MMR. Hate the new MMR, since it is "best team, all the time, every time". There is no way I can play lesser teams anywhere after seed teams, must pay the best team if I'm hoping to avoid a counter-attack. Really boring to play the same team the entire event.

I pushed Hulk to max for his event [and listed every single matchup I saw in the Hulk PVP thread] and had Thor at max for his event. Every time I ran the 290 tank along with 250 5/5/2 X-force (finished Thor before XF nerf), 5/3/5 166 Hood (or occasionally 166 5/3/5 loki). [roster 1x 250/5x 166/12x 140/14x 127] So MMR when I had the huge tank fully leveled is much better than the 140 cover-maxed Daredevil, and I expect better than the 5/5/1 127 Gamora. Haven't started yet but I know what -I- was looking for in these PVP's to attack: ANYONE who wasn't max Thor/Hulk + near max X-force. It was very difficult to find anyone without that past 300 points, 100-300 were high leveled transitioners (so no bringing those 140's against them, had to be maxed teams).

However, Kingpin MMR was much, much easier than any other one since the MMR changed to tough matchups only. I assume since everyone was using a loaner/low-level character, it threw us into a lower bracket? I saw easier (transition) teams in KP all the way up to 700 than I have in any other event since change: actually, I never saw transition teams like that past 600 before the MMR changes! Still had to use "best" team throughout, but less chances of losing points when I came back to play again.

sinnerjfl

Lerysh wrote:

Um... yes they should. Because they are new. How else are they to progress? And PvP isn't handing them anything, they have to work for it. Now that you also have to work for it isn't a bad thing.

New player's shouldn't have to deal with constant PvP oppression and not being able to even score 300 points because they are mostly just farm fodder for the point ladder.

My placement before and after the MMR change has been basically the same, it just takes more time/health packs/effort to get there.

Also the name of the thread and the content of the post pretty clearly shows that "before" in "better or worse than before" means "Before Kingpin".

You have PVE that favors heavily new players, no need to have that advantage in PVP as well. You probably don't get it but when/if you become a veteran, you'll understand why this sucks for us.

It's not about stomping noobs, it's about PVP has become 3 times harder for veterans and it takes much much longer to climb in PVP. This is our reward for making progress, a harder end-game. That makes no sense no matter how you want to spin it.

TheVulture

"Better than before" - more diversity & seeing much fewer maxed 4* teams.
Only downside is I keep needing 1-2 skips before each fight because the 1st choice offered is worth 10-11, so way too risky to be worth it.
(So not losing ISO to skipping, just missing out on the bonus ISO.)
Been playing 386 days.

Demiurge_Kabir

DrStrange-616 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

It's way worse than it was before you started screwing around with it, and slightly better than the very first event after the change.

This. Not sure how to answer the poll.

The best way to answer would be feedback on what you're experiencing, with screenshots of the team you're taking into matches.

CrookedKnight

Hostile Takeover was the easiest climb I've ever had - I topped my all-time best score and would have hit 1000 if an incoming attack during my last fight had waited another minute.

Lord of Thunder was very close to my usual experience before the MMR changes. Reasonable climb and mostly 150+ teams with maxed Thors after 600.

Haven't tried Lethal Intent yet.

I have four 166s and a bunch of 3* below that in the (fully covered) 94-110 range.

Der_Lex

sinnerjfl wrote:

You probably don't get it but when/if you become a veteran, you'll understand why this sucks for us.

Just a small hint for the future: you might want to take a look at a person's post history/roster before you make a statement like this...


Although I'm totally going to refer to lerysh as n00b now in alliance chat.


As for the MMR... it's a tough call. For me the climb is better than it has been in the first post MMR change events, I'm mostly getting teams that are in the non-maxed 3* category until I hit 5-600 or so, and that's fine. Attacks are more frequent than before the MMR change, but the reduced loss amounts make them manageable... until you hit 800+ points. Then the 'points wasteland' kicks in, and you get a lot of single digit points value fights... and when you drop your shield to climb, you can expect 6-8 attacks for each match you play. Most of the people still able to hit 1k and over are members of alliances who coordinate outside of the game.

So generally speaking, it's a bit better, but top end play is still a lot worse, and a lot more frustrating.

lukewin

Quotes copied from other thread.
Original thoughts, after DD PVP

lukewin wrote:

Not a fan of the new changes. I thought I was because I scored pretty well in IM40/Heavy Metal PVP and thought the Hulk was the reason that I did poorly in the Hulk PVP.

IM40, I used 1 3hr and was over 700 pts, I think. Yesterday, DD PVP, I finished with 397 pts, for 127th rank. So if not for my alliance, I'd have gotten 0 KK greens, instead of 1. Pretty sure I played for the last hr and a half, minimum, for my final push. All I wanted to do was hit 575 and shield. I think I got to the 540s. I had already climbed to maybe 400, in my initial pushes, I think, but of course, was knocked back down to somewhere in the low 300s. EDIT - I think I might have actually played the last 3 hrs for my final push, b/c I remember thinking once I hit my goal, I could shield to the end. I have a deep enough roster, with enough healers, that healthpacks aren't an issue.

I think I came out twice to see -80 pt losses, and my final screen was -68 point loss. Really haven't changed my playstyle, my roster has gotten even stronger, the only variable, is the matchmaking. The point loss % mitigation does nothing for me, when the amount of attacks rises higher, meaning I'm losing less pts per match, but getting far more attacks, meaning I'm losing a lot more points overall. I'm pretty sure over the course of the PVP, I lost more points than I gained. It would not surprise me if the #s showed that I earned over 1k pts in the event and lost 600, because I played a lot of matches. I really didn't even get to see the matchmaking, b/c I was overwhelmed by retal nodes. And I didn't want to just skip thru all of those, in fear of not being able to find winnable matches.

I'm solely looking to get Top 100, help my alliance get Top 100, and maybe score in the 600s, like I had been doing. With the changes, I don't think that's gonna be possible. I still play this game because of the people in my alliances, but I might have to stop, b/c I can't carry my weight, and don't want to be more of a burden than I already was.

After Kingpin PVP, from other thread

lukewin wrote:

Shielded til the end in Kingpin PVP. 821 pts. The matchmaking was definitely better / easier. I almost made it to 800 on 1 shield, and if I would've, would've just used an 8 hr til the end. Was one match away, but I wiped, was out of healthpacks, then got beat down pretty bad. So I used a 3 hr to shield in the high 600s. Got a few def wins, a lot of bounces off my shield, but all teams that were in my weight class.

Started off my hop with a wipe, but was able to climb to almost 800. Got a few attacks, while climbing, but I managed to finish at 821, some def wins mixed in. Managed to grab my CMags cover, and used an 8 hr to the end. 12 bounces so far, 10 right away, so better experience than last PVP.

After Thor PVP, new content

Slice 1, Finished 749, 0 shields used. I think my initial climb was to the 300s or 400s. My next push got me over 800, which was my goal. Wanted the last yellow I needed to optimally cover Thor. There was 11 hrs left when I hit that, and decided to be stingy with my HP. Lost some battles, got attacked some, stayed unshielded. Played the final climb, with about an hour and change left to go. Climbed on retals, skipped a few matches, saw some attacks, but played all the way til the end, which is usually a bloodbath. I guess people didn't wanna go against a Hulk, Thor, GSBW combo in the last 10 minutes. Finished 36th rank with 749.

Since I think my goals will be grabbing the covers at 800 (if I need them), then this matchmaking really works for me. If it continues, then I will be happy. If I wanted to try for the 4* covers at 1k, I think I might have a rougher time, need to shield hop and either use outside communication to line up targets or constantly watch my top 10 waiting for them to unshield to line them up.

Roster used during Thor PVP

Primarily used
140 Daken 4, 5, 4
140 Luke Cage 3, 5, 5
140 Rocket & Groot 5, 3, 5
140 Thor 4, 5, 5
140 Wolverine 5, 3, 5

Occasionally used in combo with characters above
140 Blade 3, 5, 5
140 Cap America 3, 5, 5
140 Deadpool 5, 5, 3
140 Dr. Doom 4, 5, 4 (might've used)
140 She-Hulk 5, 3, 5
140 The Hood 5, 5, 3 (105)
140 The Hulk 5, 3, 5
140 Cyclops 4, 4, 4
105 Black Widow 5, 3, 5

Not used, but highest leveled characters

156 Nick Fury 5, 5, 3
156 Wolverine 3, 3, 3
140 Thor 4, 0, 3 (127)