Lethal Intent Versus Matchmaking Poll

Unknown

I have a roster of maxed 2 star characters, plus a handful of 3 stars in the level 70–80 range that can be playable if they are featured and boosted in an event. There is no realistic hope of me earning any 3 star covers from PvP, so I mostly play for the event progression rewards at 300 and 400 points and just try to accumulate as many point as possible for the season 10 pack reward. My experience in the last few PvP events since as follows:

Teenage Riot (4/8): This was the last event before the MMR change, and I ended with 416 points at rank 172. As usual, the climb involved a long chain of 10–20 point matches against easy opponents, as anyone worth more than 20 points to me was likely to have a maxed 3 or 4 star team. Once I got over the 400 points threshold after a few lucky matchups, I just stopped playing as all the skipping was too costly in iso-8. Some battles were very hard in this event due to the Kamala infinite healing bug.

Smash Hit (4/11): Matchups seemed to be harder in this event, and I was only able to reach 315 points with my roster using a 3/1/0 Hulk. I gave up trying for the 400 points progression reward once I ran low on health packs and got tired of the skipping.

Blind Justice (4/13): This event felt even harder than Smash Hit, and I ended with just 287 points at rank 229 using a 3/3/1 Daredevil. I managed to get the 300 point progression reward after skipping many battles, but there was no hope of keeping those points with the number incoming attacks. Perhaps this was just a more competitive event due to Kamala being offered as a placement reward however.

Hostile Takeover (4/15): Match making was noticeably better in this event, though it may be related to me joining late in a half filled bracket. There were several 30–40 point battles that I actually had some hope of winning in this event, and that was immensely helpful during the climb. I ended with 502 points at rank 118, which was my highest point total ever in a season PvP event. My hopes of breaking into the top 100 were dashed when MPQ crashed in the last hour of the event however, giving me an automatic loss that not only sunk my points but also consumed my remaining health packs.

Lord of Thunder (4/18): I joined late in this event again. The climb was very smooth with several 30–40 point battles against opponents in my level range. More importantly, there were far fewer high level 3 and 4 star teams that I had to face during the climb, so I did not have to spend as much iso-8 and time just skipping battles. The game was definitely more enjoyable without this extra frustration factor. I ended with 431 points at rank 159 using a 1/3/2 LThor.

Lethal Intent: Have not played yet.

One pattern I noticed in both Lord of Thunder and Hostile Takeover is that the matchups presented to me after I cleared out the seed teams were noticeably easier and of lower point value when compared to previous PvP events. For the first time ever, I actually skipped a few battles coming out of the gate because their rewards seemed too low. In previous PvP events, winnable battles were so rare that I could never justify skipping any of them at all.

Overall, the matchmaking changes have markedly improved my PvP experience. During the climb, there are now high point value matches I actually have a chance of winning and I see far fewer opponents with impossible to beat teams. The phenomenon of a high level wall still exists, and though I would prefer a game that always allows me to actually play it (i.e. give players some playable matches to win iso-8 in even if the point value is low or zero), this is at least an improvement over the old system where I would have to spend more time skipping battles than actually playing in them.

Unknown

I think it's gotten slightly easier. However, I think the main issue remains the same: it's incredibly difficult for even 3-4* transitioners to hit 1000 now, compared to before.

Unknown

JVReal wrote:

My team is Gamora 4/3/1 lvl 102 (not buffed), Luke Cage 3/2/3 lvl 102, Groot 4/4/3 lvl 140 (my highest character, next highest are 102).
Up against Gamora lvl 96, DAreDevil lvl 113, XForce 164

In order to fight them I have to use 3 health packs because the last fight brought them all down very low in health.

Hmm... in that case mmr work wonderfully. This is not hard team at all IF the Xforce don't have lvl5 abilities (and if he does, you better know how to deny black). Groot should never need pack with 4 covers in yellow. For Gamora you could even field loaner since she is so bad AND undercovered. I think the problem is using wrong chars - undercovered 3* are really, really ****. That Luke Cage barely tickles. Groot is doable as tank, but isn't really offensive character, and only source of major damage (strike tiles from undercovered Groot) will be hard countered by DD. You will never be able to kill opponent before they got their powers online, you have tile that will halve match damage but you have so little damage that you will end up taking twice as many matches AND powers. Or to put it bluntly, that team sucks,
Now that team you've been given, that's easy pickings for 2* Wolv/oBW/Loaner, can even use Wolvie green to disarm DD trap if he puts it down.




For my experience - very positive. Top chars 150, 120x3 (including 3* Thor). Not seeing single underleveled 2* (in fact, I don't think I saw single 2x94 with loaner, it always came with bonus levels) but also not hitting wall of 270 even up to 750. Fought mainly with other transitioning teams with occasional single 166s or with loaners. Even in high points territory, while I was being hit way more, most of those hits were from full 166 players, don't think I had any attack from 270. Ended in t50 with one shield. Main change between mmr tweaks seemed that I had slightly more 'lower' teams to fight and that point values went significantly up (Kingpin ended up in t50 but just needed like 550 points for that).

Ryz-aus

For me, it's worse. The climb is a bit harder, even though I've been able to push over 1000 and can reach similar scores to those I've had in the past. This is with many maxed 3*s and 3 maxed 4*s.

More importantly, the game is less fun - instead of a progressive increase in difficulty for each event with a final push for a high score, it's a tedious climb from the start.

mhorham

I've been playing this game for470 plus days and put my vote down as disliking the change. First of all there is no gradual increase of opponent level after the seed teams . suddenly its bam,your hit with 4 star teams immediately and i mean immediately. Even a robust 3 star roster as mine can have problems when confronted with teams that are heavily weighted by 4 star characters. This i think goes against the expressed purpose of the change.in other words you have not hit the sweet spot between challenging and enjoyable gameplay. Second while maintaining a excellent 3 star roster i still maintain a decent 2 star roster, by changing the format i am no longer able to realistically use them as i was in the first part of a pvp and utilizing my 3 stars in the latter part of the competition.so those are basically my objections

Vohnkar

I voted as "better than before the MMR changes" if this means that its better than the first few changes you did. For me the MMR was best a couple of months ago when you didn't touch a thing and chars were untouched too.

I've managed to climb to 700 points on Thor event. 0-200 was easy seed teams plus a mix of 70-110 chars. from 200 to 400 or so I was fighting 120-150 mostly, with the odd 100 if I skipped enough, but they were all 20 points or so. I prefered to skip until I found some juicy 30+ points, and thats usually a maxed 3*.

From 400 all the way to 700 I fought maxed thors+2x166. Without my X-Force I was having problems with some teams, but having myself a 166 thor I managed to do fine. It will be more painful on Gamora event where I have her around lvl 60 or so. The only positive thing about the nerfs is that my x-force is quite weaker now, but I can destroy teams with a non-maxed X-Force, I deny them black and I can delete them usually. The nerf to green was maybe necessary but it has been too severe, now does really low damage for a 4* character.


I'll have to wait for a couple more events and see if the changes are really good or not, overall I think you messed up the system doing a mix of MMR changes and hard nerfing a lot of people rosters, so its dificult to now if the changes are going well because people still doesn't now what combinations work well on PvP or simply can't fight back on PvP because all they had was 4*Wolve. I only have 2 166, one of them is X-Force, so I'm still trying to get a working team on PvP.

SpiderKev

Terrible. I can't/don't want to play PVP anymore.
Day 531 player here. I've paid my dues. I've hit the 3* and 4* wall. I've struggled to hit top 100 in the Vesus' ranking. I've ground down PVE trying to gain exclusive 4* covers. I've played the Lightning rounds to try and gain ISO to level my players up.

This was all taken away. 531 days of countless hours.

I can't play PVE because the scaling is ridiculous especially with the XF Wolverine downgrade, I can't play lightning rounds because of the MMR and now I can't play PVP because of the MMR and "balancing". Why bother playing your game? You took the best part of the game - trying to build your roster to be an elite player and threw it all away. The only reason I'm still playing are the friends I've made during my playing time - which I guess I can thank you for, to give one positive review.

My 531 days played are pretty much useless now. I am now back to square one and really don't feel like playing another 500 days to get competitive again. I have tried to be positive through all of your changes but you finally wore me down. It is nice to see this is how you treat long time and loyal customers.

Bravo.

Punisher5784

The higher health changes don't help either! I couldn't even make 300 points in an hour. It ended at 290! I usually hit 500 and I'm only a 3* transitioner.

SpiderKev

I scored 1618 in the Thor PVP I've used 10 health packs and am currently at 383 points for the Gamora event. Great game changes D3!

snlf25

If I can just say this -

Please do not make any changes based on an event where Quicksilver is the placement prize because nobody is trying all that very hard!

If you want an event where you will be able to get true data and feedback, make Iron Fist or something the people actually want as the placement prizes so you get a true picture of what things are actually like.

TLDR: Bagsilver sucks, nobody is pushing for him.

fmftint

There seems to be some connection between the level of your featured character and who you can be matched with.
In Lord of Thunder my Thor was boosted to 255 and i was seeing max 4* teams starting in the low 200s
For Lethal Intent my Gamora is boosted to 142 and I'm seeing a mix of max 2 and mid to high level 3*, currently over 600 points

My roster consists of 166 Loki, Luke Cage, Hood, Patch, 161 L Thor, 140 Rocket and Groot

Unknown

fmftint wrote:

There seems to be some connection between the level of your featured character and who you can be matched with.
In Lord of Thunder my Thor was boosted to 255 and i was seeing max 4* teams starting in the low 200s
For Lethal Intent my Gamora is boosted to 142 and I'm seeing a mix of max 2 and mid to high level 3*, currently over 600 points

If it's anything like the TU average then it's considering your "top 4" characters or something, including buffs. So for Thor you had 255 166 166 166 probably, and for this you have a 142 thrown in lowering the curve. Even more reason why until you are ready to roll with the big dogs keeping your characters at level 100 is probably wise.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

fmftint wrote:

There seems to be some connection between the level of your featured character and who you can be matched with.
In Lord of Thunder my Thor was boosted to 255 and i was seeing max 4* teams starting in the low 200s
For Lethal Intent my Gamora is boosted to 142 and I'm seeing a mix of max 2 and mid to high level 3*, currently over 600 points

If it's anything like the TU average then it's considering your "top 4" characters or something, including buffs. So for Thor you had 255 166 166 166 probably, and for this you have a 142 thrown in lowering the curve. Even more reason why until you are ready to roll with the big dogs keeping your characters at level 100 is probably wise.

On the other hand there seems to be a good amount of anecdotal evidence of people with well-covered but under-leveled 3*s getting thrown up against a wall of maxed characters. I'm not sure that simply not leveling your characters makes you safe from the wrath of this new system.

Unknown

Your MMR system is just too random.
At first I voted "I can't play PVP" because it was max 3/4 * max teams right after the seed teams for the Thor event. So I just don't abandoned at 100 points.

But today I entered in the Gamora event and it was just like the Kingpin event, much more manageable. I can face various teams between 94/130 for 20/40 points and so I can use more various teams too, just not my maxed characters. I am at 400 points and I start to see more maxed 3* teams.

So if I could changed my vote, I would say "it's worse than before", and not "I can't play PVP". But if I can't play half of the time I will just stop to play PVP I think.

Edit : I'm in the same situation as fmftint in fact. My Thor was 250 and my Gamora is just 120 I think. So it's how you reward us to level a character ? The game just say to you "Always use your better team or die !" ?

Unknown

I hadn't started yet, so I figured I'd play a bit while watching some IPL.

Here are some thoughts I have put down previously:
Thoughts on Matchmaking in Season XII, where I initially made the Olympics comparison

Thoughts after the first 4 events of the season

I have finished top 5 in each of the events this season. The only one that felt good and comfortable was Teenage Riot, which featured the old Pre-XIII MMR.
Heavy Metal was a grueling slog. It was unfun, and made me want to stop playing MPQ. I faced nothing but maxed teams from the get go. Spent more on shields, boosts, and health packs (which I rarely need to buy) than I normally would, and had less fun.
Teenage Riot was just that - a riot. Tons of fun. Fun to play, and because every single match from the beginning did not feature maxed teams, I got to try different teams as well. My roster diversity actually got to be utilized. I had a much more enjoyable climb to the points I usually aim for.
Smash Hit - Back to the Heavy Metal style of maxed matches from the beginning. Was getting offered 20 point matches at 70 points against 270s.
Blind Justice - not a whole lot better.
Hostile Takeover - matchmaking was slightly better here and I actually got to fight against a few non maxed 3 and 4 star teams.
Lard Of Thunder - Similar, but again not great. Lots of maxed teams, almost exclusively, from the beginning.

---

Current event, I'll do this slightly stream of consciousness/live tweet method.
Just started Lethal Intent with 36 hour hours left, I'm not running a maxed Gamora, but have other maxed characters to pair with her. Bracket less than half full, leader in the low 500s , decent roster of 10+ maxed characters, already shielded. Second place shielded as well, low 400s, also a player with maxed 3*s.
Beat a seed team, it was replaced by 230+ Gamora, 166 Thor, 220+XF for about 40 points. Beat that.
Replaced with 170+ Gamora, maxed Pun/Hulk for closer to 50 points. Gamora needs a health pack after two fights.

Next offer - 114 Gamora, maxed Spidey/GSBW for 36. Before the fight, go check my bracket standings, and who all is in it.

My top ten currently features a number of players with 3*s in the low to mid 100s, and some with 94s in their top 6 characters. I am not being matched with those players.

Play and finish the Spidey/GSBW match.
Offered a 224 Gamora with maxed Hood/XF. For 28 points. Skip.
117 Gamora 166 Cmags, 250 XF - 26 points. Skip
178 Gamora 142 Rags 166 Spidey - 35 points - FIGHT!
185 Gamora 166 Cyclops 201 Wheels - 39 points - FIGHT!

Fight won, but need health packs for everyone. 5 fights after seeds, 4 health packs used. This is not fun so far. I've crossed 200 in a low number of matches, but they've all taken longer than under the Pre-XIII MMR, so the net result is that I've fought less fights in the same amount of time, but taken much more damage and come out with less points to show for it. In the amount of time these 6 matches have taken, I could usually churn out at least twice as many fights against 94-130 teams without taking a ton of damage. I'd be at closer to 300 instead of just crossing 200.

Do a few skips just to see what else the Q offers.
20 points - 3x 140s
22 - 124/166/166
20 - 115/166/166
21 - 248/270/270
22 - 136/166/166
37 - 138/166/142 (winner, FIGHT!)
23 - 210/153/140 (the extras are fully covered Hood/Loki. No thanks)
31 - 191/153/166 Hood/Blade...maybe.
26 - 70/166/213 SexMagnet
25 -115/166/166

I can see why it's not a great thing for player retention and growth to let 270s mop the floor with 1 and 2* players all the time. But I do not see a problem with limiting it to being able to attack only the 2* players who are in your own bracket. I am in direct competition with them if they are in my bracket, why do they get a free pass? There are people unshielded in my bracket, with higher points than me and yet, I can not queue them or players like them, in spite of spending a significant amount of time and iso skipping, solely because they are invisible by virtue of their roster.


I did not vote on the poll, as I do not know which answer I'm supposed to choose.
But I can answer in my own words regarding Kabir's point for the poll, that he is "interested in hearing if our changes have made the matches you're playing more fun."

Kabir - No. They have not. All of the MMR changes since Season XIII have started have made pvp, and the game in general, less fun. Significantly less fun.

I am going to stick out the season for my alliance, but if this is the new way of things going forward, I won't be playing Season XIV.

Unknown

I'm on day 433 and only have 2 maxed 3★. Before the PvP changes I was able to score about 600 pts per PVP and rank top 100 in almost all. Now I find it very difficult to get to those numbers.
Only could do that on Kingpin PvP.

I usually play with:

- Lv 166 3★ Daken
- Lv 154 3★ Wolverine
- Buffed Hero
In this case it's Lv 80 3★ Gamora (Buffed to 140)

Since the first change of MMR I start seeing maxed teams right after I beat the seed ones.
I think the system was OK before they started the changes. There was a smooth difficulty transition from Seed teams, then some maxed 2★ until I reached 300-400 pts, some not maxed 3★ until 600 and maxed 3★ once I passed the 600 threshold.
Now it's just Seed teams leading to a maxed 3★ wall.

Unknown

Thunder pvp was good for me. Probably would have broke top 100 if I didn't fall asleep lol. I have yet to play lethal intent

udonomefoo

udonomefoo wrote:

I'm a transition player, mostly playing the Thor event with a 120 thor and 2 maxed 2 stars (ares & obw/daken).

I voted "worse", but that's with an asterisk. I can place higher than ever before, and can get top 100, maybe. That's an improvement over before when I had no chance at all, but the reason I voted "worse" is that it takes FOREVER to get there.

Ok, I played for a few hours at the end of the Thor event just to see how it would go (of course Gamora red is one of the only 3* covers I have maxed) and have played a little bit of the new Gamora event. I ended up finishing 39th in Lord of Thunder with 605 points. I have never reached more than 500 on the old mmr and even when I did get that far I'd get knocked back down to about 350 by the time it ended. So all in all, this is much better for me.

Lethal intent seems to be the same. I have seen some talking about how one boosted character can screw up your matches, that has not been the case for me. My lthor is 78 and Gamora is at 104 and I haven't noticed any difference in matches I'm being given. Both are/were paired with two lvl 94 2*s or one 94 and a 104 3*.

It would be really nice if you devs would talk a little bit about what it is you're trying to do here. MY take on it is that you're trying to prevent higher level roster players from joining an event and not playing at all until the last few hours and just steamrolling through all the players that have been trying to climb for 3 days. Make the matches longer and more difficult so you have to spread your play over the length of the event, and if you're willing to put in the work, you can climb without getting stomped. If that's the case, then it seems to be working.

On "fun": those first couple hundred points are a real drag, maybe i'll get used to it but "steamrolling" was very satisfying. You really do need to incorporate some kind of gameplay element that allows the vets to just crush the noobs. Even if it's just lightning rounds or simulator or whatever, it's satisfying and fun and makes it feel like it was worth the work you put in to get there. That being said, the last hour or so when I was scrapping to stay top 50 was more fun than I've ever had in pvp, it used to be just get the progression reward at 400 and don't bother to look at it again.

vinnygecko

I'm not sure how to vote yet as I have not seen enough consistency so far. MMR was considerably better for me in Kingpin's and Thor's events, when comparing to the earlier events in the season (heavy metal was awful). Gamora's event seems a bit off though.

I started Gamora's event today (4th slice) and something seems way off, as in too easy. I was not using any of my leveled and maxed characters, but have seen nothing but seed teams for the first 9 matches (I've played the first 6). Maybe no one is playing? Just seems odd, and to be honest, a bit boring. Matches are only 16 points now, so while it's easy, it's a slow climb. Taking a break now and may skip some of these to see what's waiting behind them.

I've been using Gamora lvl 100 (without buff), 150 hood and 130 loki. I have six 3* characters at 166 and one 4* at 202 that I haven't used yet. I've been getting top 50 finishes most of this season, but honestly haven't been trying as hard. Was consistently in top 25 before the first MMR change and sometimes made it higher. Now I feel lucky if I break 700 in an event. This season took me the longest to get the 10-pack progression reward.

TLCstormz

Lerysh wrote:

elmasmejor wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Im sorry that you cant stomp us new and transitioning players anymore. I understand your frustation. Must be hell

The fact that this post has 6 downvotes is essentially the problem. Curb stomping noobs somehow became intrinsic to the game, and that ain't cool. And speaking out against it gets you tossed out of the thread, and that ain't cool either.

Yes, moderators, why are they allowed to do that? Isn't THAT an instance of "people afraid to voice their opinions, because they'll be ridiculed".....by veterans?