Lethal Intent Versus Matchmaking Poll

fmftint

After some time on Lethal Intent I voted worse than before. Reason being it's just inconsistent, where your maximum difficulty cap is based upon how leveled your feature character is

we’re reducing the maximum difficulty of opponents we send you, when there are enough available opponents to allow that. Players who were already seeing only opponents of their level and below in Heavy Metal won’t notice much difference here, but this will help players that are between the 2-star level cap and the 3-star cap, or between the 3-star cap and the 4-star cap.

esoxnepa

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey everyone,

Update: Added clarification for 'before'; I'm interested in hearing if our changes have made the matches you're playing more fun.

I'll base my feedback on the Gamora Event.

I'm still digesting the 4/17 update. Since I didn't have a useable X-Force, and like variety, the health buffs seem like a boost so far. I don't like how much they have slowed down shield hops, because you can get hit by way too many teams during a push, and lose much more than you gain. I feel like with this change, the shields should now be locking in your points, so there is a bigger incentive to play, shield, then come back and play multiple matches. Knowing that in these later pushes the only progress you risk is your current progress from your push. I know there are some drawbacks to this, but it seems like you are trying to crush the Blitz Ultra High Risk PvP anyway.

MMR:
I am not seeing the ridiculous wall right after seed teams. This is a nice plus.

I still can't risk play lower level (under 150) characters, because they will cause auto retaliations. I think the ISO change coming will help me level more people to 150+.

I am seeing more MMR bubbles once I hit 650. By bubbles, I mean a total of only 5 teams available to hit, often for less than 15 points, where I know I will lose more points on the retaliation than I gain. I can sometimes break this bubble with a force quit, but that is really annoying.

I am seeing more team variety, which is really nice. I am concerned that PvP Defense will be come about fielding the most annoying team you can field. Teams, where if you attack them, you may not lose the match, but it will take you so long to win, that you will lose dramatically more points than you gain for the win. I'm expecting some DD/KK/LC teams for example.

Unknown

TLCstormz wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

elmasmejor wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Im sorry that you cant stomp us new and transitioning players anymore. I understand your frustation. Must be hell

The fact that this post has 6 downvotes is essentially the problem. Curb stomping noobs somehow became intrinsic to the game, and that ain't cool. And speaking out against it gets you tossed out of the thread, and that ain't cool either.

Yes, moderators, why are they allowed to do that? Isn't THAT an instance of "people afraid to voice their opinions, because they'll be ridiculed".....by veterans?

To answer your question..... they are allowed because (assuming nothing abusive in the text box for those downvotes) they aren't breaking any rules. The quoted bit is, currently at least, somewhere between an opinion and an aim, nothing more.

It's kind of a somewhat bad post taking a shot at new players(if only it didn't have the last sentence....), then a worse post escalating an argument since it's basically an unsubstantiated attack (no opinion or justification offered at all and I can see why people might have chosen to downvote it) then a less bad but ultimately unhelpful post telling ppl off for downvoting a bad post.... then your post. It's a shame ppl couldn't just say how they found the matchmaking. In fact, of all 4 posts the first one is the only one of any real value to the thread because it actually references the topic directly, even if more info as to why it's ruined the player's experience would be nice (and my post sure isn't on topic either to this point.....)

In order to redeem my post somewhat....

I think there are a number of ppl who play MPQ ultra casually for a bit of time wasting, then there are people who want rewards. 2* rewards have been made so throwaway that it tends to be 3*/4* rewards ppl are after.

A lot of what colours people's perceptions of whether a change is good or bad is how it impacts them getting said rewards. For ppl who place particularly highly they will bust through whatever matchmaking you give them then hop to their placements, so for them if it's quicker and easier it's good, if it's longer and harder it's bad. There isn't so much of an issue about being able to get stuff at all.

For the next lot of players it's about whether they can get the rewards at all within the constraints of their playstyles/times. For these ppl any change that stops them getting the reward is bad, anything that helps them get it is good. Unfortunately these people obviously zero-sum because everyone suddenly getting a reward they couldn't before also represents another person who is now missing out.

Then you have ppl who judge the MMR by variety of teams faced or curve of difficulty faced because that matters more to them than rewards. Dunno how prevalent they are but I know they exist.

What this adds up to is anything that makes games longer/harder is probably getting an overall negative response in a poll because ultra casuals probably aren't here to give an opinion and wouldn't care either way if they were, it is less fun for highly placing players because it feels grindy, the reward driven players are zero sum (see above) and in my experience the pure play experience guys aren't all that common (and who knows if they would like it anyway, you would need to ask one!).

IMO find a way to have the stronger rosters facing each other NOT increase the grind in PvP and you'll get less push-back. Maybe scale points reward to average target roster strength as well as relative score ie. give a scaling points multiplier over 1.0 once the targets' average levels exceed a given number? They'll be facing the same stronger rosters but less times, thereby balancing out the total time required to be as before the MMR changes.

Still going to have angry ppl who can't get their rewards any more (cause other players who's scores have been bumped by the changes are now getting them) but it is literally impossible to avoid that in a competitive, top x receive prizes format.

EDIT: One other thought.... anything that makes progression harder or impossible for a person to reach the same level they are used to will be viewed negatively as well. It's the nature of the rewards driven game the devs have made that a lot of ppl are VERY focussed on getting those rewards and neither like being unable to or, even worse, being able to then having it taken away.

redacted3

Got to say i dont like it. get near max teams after seed teams and just keep losing and skipping. More frustrating than challenging.

sinnerjfl

TLCstormz wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

elmasmejor wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Im sorry that you cant stomp us new and transitioning players anymore. I understand your frustation. Must be hell

The fact that this post has 6 downvotes is essentially the problem. Curb stomping noobs somehow became intrinsic to the game, and that ain't cool. And speaking out against it gets you tossed out of the thread, and that ain't cool either.

Yes, moderators, why are they allowed to do that? Isn't THAT an instance of "people afraid to voice their opinions, because they'll be ridiculed".....by veterans?

People are allowed to downvote whatever they want.

I stand by that last sentence in my post, it's just a fact. This mmr change seems to benefit new players while directly making
the experience of people with more developped rosters worse.

I don't think it's a good idea and it has no relation with "curb stomping noobs". I'm fine with making it easier for new players, just not in a way that screws over everyone else.

sinnerjfl

Regarding the MMR for the current Gamora event, it's fairer than the Thor PVP in the early climb at least (<500). Feels more like
Kingpin's event.

Melevorn

I mostly play PvE - I moved from an all-round Alliance to a PvE one at the end of last season because I was very unhappy with PvP. With the Thor PvP I was very happy - scored about 730 with one 3-hr shield (note, only two in my roster >116 and they're just level 135 and 127), and now with shields I'm at 850 in Gamora and aiming higher.

Happy with the current status of PvP, please don't change it again.

Unknown

Why are we nerfing heros and changing matchmaking anyway?!?! PVP is the problem nothing else.

Here's my idea:

** Create 3 pvp pods: a Max 2*, Max 3* and a Max 4* pod.
** If someone wants to play in all 3, let them.
** Everyone is happy

I can't be the only person who sees this!?

I had 5 covers in 2 wolverine's colors. When I finally received my 1st surgical strike cover I dropped around $200 to buy the other covers and boost him as far as i could. After a ton of grinding I maxed him out. Now I'm down $200 and he's been demoted to a mediocre 3*. What's the point of having any *'s if all the characters are on the same playing field? Let's try to think of solutions here, please D3?

evil panda

Worse than before.

Faced the same maxed teams after seed teams

I can beat maxed teams, but the margin of error is razor thin (heheh). Especially with a fast damager like Gamora buffed, you will always take a huge amount of damage and health pack drains, so combined with a slow grind starting at 70 points,it gets exceedingly frustrating to go above 500 points plus. And I have a roster of enough 4 and 3* to field at least 4 effective teams. So I'm having to shield at 500-700 and I'm not sure if 1000 is reachable

evil panda

Btw, on the side conversation regarding downvoting, I thought that a downvote for rudeness is legitimate. And there are some rude tinykitty comments out there. Transitioners should realize that vets are getting totally **** and are very sensitive to it. Rubbing their faces in it is likely to evoke a strong reaction. There's a way to say "I like the changes" without coming across as "ha ha, f you vets".

Now In complete fairness I see some condescendingcomments from entitled vets to transitioners, and those should be downvoted too. A little sensitivity on both sides will keep the downvotes away

lokiagentofhotness

i'm frustrated because i have to beat 15k teams without a viable 4*, since you've essentially taken away my favorite toys.

thanks!

Flume

The whole point of the nerfs was to even the playing field to increase play in other roster characters.
Then at the same time, you changed matching to basically force you to play your best team ALL the time.
I think it'd be fun to get to blend in the not-quite-as-viable characters once in a while.
I used to do this in pvp from 0-500 and cannot do that anymore.
My guess is that lots of others climb with max 4* for speed and those guys beating on 2* rosters is what you're trying to fix?

9fingers

So my XF is not useable anymore and I have no other 4*s yet Im facing teams with maxed KP prof x NF 4hor... Doesnt make sense to me. Do I need to sell my shiny ornament not to face these teams? Kinda hoping you guys realise youve made a mess of it and buff him again. Or shall I complain they're overpowered because hood and lthor cant win everytime? Is it more fun? No. Has this game become a lot less fun? Yes. Do you need to fix your errors? Yes. Will you? I doubt it very much.

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

sinnerjfl wrote:

People are allowed to downvote whatever they want.

I stand by that last sentence in my post, it's just a fact. This mmr change seems to benefit new players while directly making
the experience of people with more developped rosters worse.

I don't think it's a good idea and it has no relation with "curb stomping noobs". I'm fine with making it easier for new players, just not in a way that screws over everyone else.

It depends on what you mean by "worse". "More difficult" surely. Possibly even "more fair", but I dunno about "worse". I've been able to hit my placements (or nearly due to lack of time) and progressions I wanted so far. Going to put time into Lethal Intent tonight and tomorrow hoping to hit 1000, we will see how it goes.

For me, "more difficult" and "less fun" are totally not the same. I am the kind of person that goes straight to hard mode on video games and beats the challenge modes for fun. Not the kind that leaves the slider set to "easy". I still say bring on the 166s, I am totally fine in that arena.

If you could come up with a way that was easier for new players WITHOUT making it harder for not new players, I would be very impressed. Taking away the ability to hit 94s from rosters with boosted 290s and 270 XFs and 16 other compelted 3*s sounds like a good thing on paper to me. The best idea I've heard so far is to match in the 94s but don't have them lose points if attacked by a significantly stronger roster, so they are essentially extended seed teams to high level rosters.

Unknown

9fingers wrote:

So my XF is not useable anymore and I have no other 4*s yet Im facing teams with maxed KP prof x NF 4hor... Doesnt make sense to me. Do I need to sell my shiny ornament not to face these teams? Kinda hoping you guys realise youve made a mess of it and buff him again. Or shall I complain they're overpowered because hood and lthor cant win everytime? Is it more fun? No. Has this game become a lot less fun? Yes. Do you need to fix your errors? Yes. Will you? I doubt it very much.

Depending what else is on your roster, yes it's highly likey XF is hurting you right now more than helping. Although he's not terrible (he's just not The Best There Is which is sad), you give him black and repeatedly slash face the "high color match" enemy so you progress through colors.

If you had like 212 Gamora, 270 XF, a 166 someone, and some 140s then yes XF is totally totally hurting you. If you have 3-5 166s he's not hurting you THAT much to the point you should sell him I'd think.

fmftint

Simple fix that will benefit everyone, make shields lock points so you don't move backward.

Unknown

fmftint wrote:

Simple fix that will benefit everyone, make shields lock points so you don't move backward.

Um... that's exactly what they already do. Other people pass you, you don't move back.

dider152

I voted better than before the MMR change, but only because there isn't one along a scale (ie. just barely better). I mean, it's okay, but I totally hate that you immediately jump into the "high level featured plus two 2* at 94" phase after the three starter matches. I would like for there to be more of a buffer. Plus, this greatly limits the characters you can use. If I didn't have LThor, XForce, 3* Torch, OBW and sometimes Blade, I would have been SOL. I think you are heading in the right direction, but more changes need to be made. As a PvE player, I've noticed that I enjoy playing more and I've already reached the Heroic 10 pack award, which is unheard of for me at this point in a season.

But still, if an appropriate option was given in the poll to express my feelings, it would be "Changes are good, but further changes needed."

Unknown

Is it me or with the health changes (because matches take longer), does it seem like it's easy for unlucky cascades to just totally end you?

DrNitroman

Lerysh wrote:

It depends on what you mean by "worse". "More difficult" surely. Possibly even "more fair", but I dunno about "worse". I've been able to hit my placements (or nearly due to lack of time) and progressions I wanted so far. Going to put time into Lethal Intent tonight and tomorrow hoping to hit 1000, we will see how it goes.

For me, "more difficult" and "less fun" are totally not the same. I am the kind of person that goes straight to hard mode on video games and beats the challenge modes for fun. Not the kind that leaves the slider set to "easy". I still say bring on the 166s, I am totally fine in that arena.

If you could come up with a way that was easier for new players WITHOUT making it harder for not new players, I would be very impressed. Taking away the ability to hit 94s from rosters with boosted 290s and 270 XFs and 16 other compelted 3*s sounds like a good thing on paper to me. The best idea I've heard so far is to match in the 94s but don't have them lose points if attacked by a significantly stronger roster, so they are essentially extended seed teams to high level rosters.

My opinion about current MMR is not definitive yet and I think I'll need a few more PvP but Lerysh expressed most of my feelings quite well (except that I don't actively seek the difficulty for the challenge! )

The first versions of the MMR changes were awful, I was facing maxed 3* and 4* straight after seed teams, let's forget that and let's compare the current changes with old MMR
My team is generally composed of the featured char (leveled or not) plus maxed 3* and I can field a 270 XF if necessary. I have a roster deep enough to use several different 166 3*.
Before changes, I started climbing by slaughtering 2* teams at level 94. The level of opponent's teams raised progressively and I faced maxed XF - 4Thor around 600.
Now at the beginning I am matched with teams of underleveled 3* and I progressively see maxed 3* around 500.

In summary, as Lerysh said, PvP is now definitely more difficult but I wouldn't say it's worse. Beating all those 94 teams wasn't challenging (and pretty unfair) while starting against underleveled 3* still means a relative easy start for me. So I think I'm relatively happy with the changes at least for the 0 - 600 pts part of the climb. Above I'm more reserved as currently I don't know if I'm still able to score consistently above 600.