Lethal Intent Versus Matchmaking Poll

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Um... yes they should. Because they are new. How else are they to progress? And PvP isn't handing them anything, they have to work for it. Now that you also have to work for it isn't a bad thing.

New player's shouldn't have to deal with constant PvP oppression and not being able to even score 300 points because they are mostly just farm fodder for the point ladder.

My placement before and after the MMR change has been basically the same, it just takes more time/health packs/effort to get there.

Also the name of the thread and the content of the post pretty clearly shows that "before" in "better or worse than before" means "Before Kingpin".

You have PVE that favors heavily new players, no need to have that advantage in PVP as well. You probably don't get it but *when/if you become a veteran*, you'll understand why this sucks for us.

It's not about stomping noobs, it's about PVP has become 3 times harder for veterans and it takes much much longer to climb in PVP. This is our reward for making progress, a harder end-game. That makes no sense no matter how you want to spin it.

Man, that made ma laugh so hard.

The devs have stated that roster strength is still integral to placement with the top spots going to the best rosters basically. My own personal experience holds this to be true as my 270s and (15) 166s placed easily in the top 25 before and can place easily in the top 25 now.

A "harder end game" for veteran players might not be good. But it's a far cry better than a point ladder built on the backs of 94 transition teams. I ain't sccerd of your 166 teams, bring em on. That you feel entitled to beat up on transitioners and then downvote someone for "noob entitlement" speaks volumes.

Also, what "3 times harder" are you referring to? The fact that 94 teams have to fight other 94 teams which is basically just as hard to come out the other side alive as your 270 teams fighting 166s? Yes, PvP is 3x harder than it was when you could coast to 600 points by oppressing transitioners. Too bad, get use to the new order.

The changed MMR from Kingpin is great my by estimation, except for the high point value point desert that exists above about 950 points (where I guess everyone is shielded). Can't find a match worth more than 5.

Unknown

elmasmejor wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Im sorry that you cant stomp us new and transitioning players anymore. I understand your frustation. Must be hell

The fact that this post has 6 downvotes is essentially the problem. Curb stomping noobs somehow became intrinsic to the game, and that ain't cool. And speaking out against it gets you tossed out of the thread, and that ain't cool either.

udonomefoo

I'm a transition player, mostly playing the Thor event with a 120 thor and 2 maxed 2 stars (ares & obw/daken).

I voted "worse", but that's with an asterisk. I can place higher than ever before, and can get top 100, maybe. That's an improvement over before when I had no chance at all, but the reason I voted "worse" is that it takes FOREVER to get there. This may just be a product of 3 pvp events in a row where the featured character is one of the highest health characters in the game, but every one of my matches takes a long time. It's just not worth sinking that kind of time into the matches so that I can maybe make top 100.

Best of both worlds to me would be to have easier matches for the first couple hundred points and then get into the group with people with same rosters as me instead of getting there right after seeds. This only works though if the point losses for the other team in those "easy" matches are negligible for that player so they don't get discouraged from playing at all.

Scoregasms

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

DrStrange-616 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

It's way worse than it was before you started screwing around with it, and slightly better than the very first event after the change.

This. Not sure how to answer the poll.

The best way to answer would be feedback on what you're experiencing, with screenshots of the team you're taking into matches.

Is this really a good idea with these pending character changes inc? I literally have no idea who I am going to use yet and will need a good bit of experimenting. It'd be nice if the team I chose to use actually mattered for those who queue me instead of looking at my MMR? Otherwise, it's the best I have on my roster to slog through other max teams.

Agree with others though, Kingpin was an oasis amongst the chaos of pvp's around it, will check back in once I join lethal intent though.

spydoorman

I voted "i cant play pvp anymore" heres why since you tinkered with the MMR I generally get all max all the time teams. Every once in a while one member will be under leveled. This of course turns into longer fights, draining my roster faster, (i can only field about 2.5 teams that wont get ravaged by the masses). And the cherry on top is I have to shield earlier and more often in order to shoot for top tier rewards. So technically, i can still play pvp but it is much more costly in all facets of the game and I am not interested in that. The upcoming changes may add a few playable characters from my roster to the a squad so that may help.

Edit for clarification: i am not interested in spending more cash to compete in order to adjust to the changes. I dont care that the fights are harder. Maybe its time to up the amount of health packs players are allowed.

DrStrange-616

Lerysh wrote:

elmasmejor wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Please scrap this new MMR and just go back to before your week of testing... This is straight-up awful, you have managed to ruin the one game-mode that was still fun. New players shouldn't have everything handed to them just because they're new.

Im sorry that you cant stomp us new and transitioning players anymore. I understand your frustation. Must be hell

The fact that this post has 6 downvotes is essentially the problem. Curb stomping noobs somehow became intrinsic to the game, and that ain't cool. And speaking out against it gets you tossed out of the thread, and that ain't cool either.

I understand what you're saying but "beating teams that aren't as powerful as mine" is part of any tournament and does nto equal "curb stomping." I think most of the downvotes are a reaction to the snark and *rubs eyes with fists* "boo-hoo" dillweedery.

Unknown

DrStrange-616 wrote:

I understand what you're saying but "beating teams that aren't as powerful as mine" is part of any tournament and does nto equal "curb stomping." I think most of the downvotes are a reaction to the snark and *rubs eyes with fists* "boo-hoo" dillweedery.

So beat up on 166 teams? The entire new MMR system is designed so you can reach 1 tier down. That seems to not be good enough for the masses here tho.

"Beating teams that aren't as powerful as mine" and "taking easy points where I have virtually no threat of damage" are totally not the same.

gmp72

As a 3 transitioning player (level 120s), the matchmaking is far better and I am able to reach higher progression rewards and place higher than before.
The matches are also varied and more fun.

I do however understand the frustrations of the players with maxed rosters ....

spccrain

I'm a vet and I actually voted better. Not because it's actually "better" than it once was but because it's better than im/hulk mmr and that option wasn't available. I'm once again getting to close my usual scores so something was changed.

Spoit

Der_Lex wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

You probably don't get it but when/if you become a veteran, you'll understand why this sucks for us.

Just a small hint for the future: you might want to take a look at a person's post history/roster before you make a statement like this...


Although I'm totally going to refer to lerysh as n00b now in alliance chat.


As for the MMR... it's a tough call. For me the climb is better than it has been in the first post MMR change events, I'm mostly getting teams that are in the non-maxed 3* category until I hit 5-600 or so, and that's fine. Attacks are more frequent than before the MMR change, but the reduced loss amounts make them manageable... until you hit 800+ points. Then the 'points wasteland' kicks in, and you get a lot of single digit points value fights... and when you drop your shield to climb, you can expect 6-8 attacks for each match you play. Most of the people still able to hit 1k and over are members of alliances who coordinate outside of the game.

So generally speaking, it's a bit better, but top end play is still a lot worse, and a lot more frustrating.

March 14? That's totally baby newbs join date

sinnerjfl

Lerysh wrote:

The devs have stated that roster strength is still integral to placement with the top spots going to the best rosters basically. My own personal experience holds this to be true as my 270s and (15) 166s placed easily in the top 25 before and can place easily in the top 25 now.

A "harder end game" for veteran players might not be good. But it's a far cry better than a point ladder built on the backs of 94 transition teams. I ain't sccerd of your 166 teams, bring em on. That you feel entitled to beat up on transitioners and then downvote someone for "noob entitlement" speaks volumes.

Also, what "3 times harder" are you referring to? The fact that 94 teams have to fight other 94 teams which is basically just as hard to come out the other side alive as your 270 teams fighting 166s? Yes, PvP is 3x harder than it was when you could coast to 600 points by oppressing transitioners. Too bad, get use to the new order.

The changed MMR from Kingpin is great my by estimation, except for the high point value point desert that exists above about 950 points (where I guess everyone is shielded). Can't find a match worth more than 5.

I'm not gonna bother answering all your points but here is the gist of my answer.
You shouldn't start an event facing the best teams right away right up until the end. That is incredibly dumb to re-structure PVP just because
new players were having a tough time. Is the first game of any sport or competition up against the best team? For the whole competition? No, because that's idiotic. There needs to be a progression, teams getting tougher and tougher.

They want to make it easier on new players because that way they have a better chance at sticking around. Then they can get them to spend their money. That's pretty much the goal of this MMR change. This is not about fairness or noob stomping.

DrStrange-616

There needs to be a progression, teams getting tougher and tougher.

This is how I see it, too.

Unknown

Sports is a bad analogy because in sports every team has access to the same resources typically. Ownership is steeped in so much cash they can get/do whatever they want. All teams are "supposedly" created equal. You play a season worth of games to see who is actually the best and then you have a playoffs. In MPQ every player does not have the same resources. Or even the same desires. When season rewards went in scores saw a significant jump, because players actually cared about their score again. This made it quite difficult for 2* players to earn 3* covers from PvP because the top of the brackets are full of people who don't even want the 3* covers. They are there for the 1300 (now 1000) points and season score.

It's more like a chess tournament, where you bring your ranking in with you and everyone gets paired based on that ranking so the top 2 rankings have the best chance to meet in the finals. Except people were manipulating their ranking to get easier matches, and the ranking system still didn't take into account player resources (roster strengths), and the best ranked people still don't want the actual top 5 rewards typically and are just there for season score and 1000 point progression.

If everyone joined their slice when it opened, played when they had free time, and didn't use shields to extend their scores, the brackets would settle into a ranking of "who played the most" (effort) and "who got hit the least" (roster strength). So I ask again, what's wrong with that? It takes effort to place now is the problem? Really?

DrStrange-616

Someone once equated PvP with the Olympics. I think it's a good analogy.

Unknown

DrStrange-616 wrote:

There needs to be a progression, teams getting tougher and tougher.

This is how I see it, too.

I get this, and it does, partially, in half leveled 3* teams or under leveled featured characters. It just ramps up much quicker than it use to. I think part of the problem is the last PvP ran was Thor. Everyone has a maxed out Thor. He's one of the oldest and best 3*s. 290 Thor is a monster to fight against.

If you really want a cushy ride to 500 points, just advocate for seed teems to be brought back, or for the point dynamic to be lessened even more for points won vs lost, or something other than "I miss my 94 battles bring them back so I can hit noobs again".

Edit: For comparison here is what I am currently facing.
My roster: 270 XF, 240 TGT, 166 Various, level 40 5/5/2 Gamora

The teams I see after seed teams in Lethal Intent: 222 Gamora, 166 Patch, 153 Punisher - 147 Gamora, 166 Daken, 220 XF - 93 Gamora, 250 XF, 166 Hulk.

All those teams are totally fine and I will destroy them. I gain 20 they lose something along the lines of 100-20/1000 aka 1 point. If I get hit in the mean time I also lose 1 point. Just accept the challenge and climb away.

sinnerjfl

Lerysh wrote:

If everyone joined their slice when it opened, played when they had free time, and didn't use shields to extend their scores, the brackets would settle into a ranking of "who played the most" (effort) and "who got hit the least" (roster strength). So I ask again, what's wrong with that? It takes effort to place now is the problem? Really?

Simply put, ** roster: less time invested, less effort, easy to reach a specific score (value doesnt matter but lets say 600)
*** roster: more time invested, more effort, harder to reach the same score
**** roster: even more time invested, more effort and resources (shields, health packs), for the same score as the previous two

So basically veterans need to spend more time, effort & ressources to reach the same score/reward.

Teams of **'s facing other **'s is all fine and dandy. Health pools are much lower and matches are relatively quick.
Teams of ***'s & ****'s facing one another gets old really fast. Health pools are huge, abilities do a lot more damage, health packs etc.

AnonymousMPQ

Can I vote different?

Pre any changes, I was scoring 300-400. After the latest change I scored 400 today and 300 Wednesday. The in between events were around 100ish depending how many seed characters I was given.

The difference is before I ground frantically for 1-2 hours for 10-20 points per fights I know that I would win, now I only fight have to fight 10-20 fights that are fairly even but I win more than lose, for 30ish points but I have to wait an hour or so in between each fight to heal up or use health packs.

Personally I prefer the previous system, because it suits my play style more. I can find an hour or two for each PVP, opposed to finding a lot of pockets of time that aren't always there.

I think there are valid arguments for both match making systems, it's really about which kind of style the devs want to the game play to take.

I think it would be interesting if they had different PvP events featuring the different systems. One is a free for all (old system) and the other a weight class system (current system).

Monochromize

I feel compelled to comment (Having not read this thread in detail, but having pored over other threads to death) to say I think the new MMR system has been beneficial to me. I'm fighting teams in general that are far more in line with what I can compete against. I'm placing close to where I placed before the change, but my progression has gone up about 100 points before I hit that wall.

I just want to point out that despite the cries of all the 'vets' around here, some people are seeing positive changes and thankful for them.

Unknown

sinnerjfl wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

If everyone joined their slice when it opened, played when they had free time, and didn't use shields to extend their scores, the brackets would settle into a ranking of "who played the most" (effort) and "who got hit the least" (roster strength). So I ask again, what's wrong with that? It takes effort to place now is the problem? Really?

Simply put, ** roster: less time invested, less effort, easy to reach a specific score (value doesnt matter but lets say 600)
*** roster: more time invested, more effort, harder to reach the same score
**** roster: even more time invested, more effort and resources (shields, health packs), for the same score as the previous two

So basically veterans need to spend more time, effort & ressources to reach the same score/reward.

Teams of **'s facing other **'s is all fine and dandy. Health pools are much lower and matches are relatively quick.
Teams of ***'s & ****'s facing one another gets old really fast. Health pools are huge, abilities do a lot more damage, health packs etc.

I think you may have forgotten what it's like to actually be a 2* player. Health pools might be lower, but damage is in line with it. You get hit by a Call The Storm from 2* Thor to your 2* roster you just ate 3 health packs. And fighting against Ares? Oof. Or Storm and Windstorm. There are plenty of ways to ruin your day in 2* land. None of this has changed at all. The only part that has changed is they aren't constantly bleeding points upwards to rosters stronger than themselves.

I understand what you are saying, that larger rosters seem to punish the veteran player, but the devs have gone on record saying that it just isn't true. The top spots still go to the strongest rosters. 3* and 4* efforts required went up relative to 2* effort only because 2* has been putting in that effort all along (fighting within their weight class) while 3* and 4* have been coasting up to this point by fighting below their weight class.

Since the MMR change has gone in I've actually been playing MORE PvP than usual, getting more rewards because more matches are required now. I use to join an event with 6 hours to go and race up to 1000 points on 10 health packs. Now I actually use all 2.5 days provided to me for an event.

fmftint

The problem is it's only 3* players who are forced to fight above their level, 2* fight at and below, 4* fight at and below, 3* fight at and above, mostly above