*** Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel) ***

Trisul

Vertigozooropa wrote:

Her abilities are well-costed, yes, but her yellow is not by far her weakest ability. It's amazingly broken, and will be the number one reason people hate to fight this character.

Annoying, yes. Broken, absolutely not.

What this heal does is punish players that blow abilities too early. It changes your playstyle, yes (gotta plan your burst damage), but no more than Morale Boost or Wolverine/Daken regen or Luke Cage protect tiles do.

Pwuz_

So since Kamala Khan is the new Ms. Marvel, does that mean that Captain/Ms. Marvel will be locked?

Unknown

This is it? The only? new character for tho whole next season? U gotta b me. Another character dupe. When there are so many other characters ppl want 2 c I doubt one fan said "oh yeah they should put in the new Mrs marvel cuz they could really use a new ms marvel!" A and she's nothin special...com on guys ur gonna start losing fans.....fast

Unknown

Pwuz_ wrote:

So since Kamala Khan is the new Ms. Marvel, does that mean that Captain/Ms. Marvel will be locked?

Don't ask too many questions, they'll just bring the NERFbat

Unknown

Time for theoretical teams to abuse her healing powers, ready, go!

Khamala Khan, Luke Cage, Falcon - Heals for 6 black a bunch of times in a row once you have 18 and unleash it. Falcon charges up Cage's protect while gaining yellow for Uppercut.

KK, Daken, Thor - Purple/Yellow/Blue to green, powers for 5 and 8, can spread the damage evenly or front load a bit with CtS if needed. Also Thor will tank Green for KK and Daken will tank Purple.

My favorite - KK, Iron Fist, Gamora - If Gamora is in front she will tank Green/Red/Black/Blue, IF tanks Purple, leaving only yellow for KK which is a color you don't actually want. IF -> Gamora early then charge purple and red. Use Gamora to even out the enemy and finish with KK's .

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Time for theoretical teams to abuse her healing powers, ready, go!

Khamala Khan, Luke Cage, Falcon - Heals for 6 black a bunch of times in a row once you have 18 and unleash it. Falcon charges up Cage's protect while gaining yellow for Uppercut.

KK, Daken, Thor - Purple/Yellow/Blue to green, powers for 5 and 8, can spread the damage evenly or front load a bit with CtS if needed. Also Thor will tank Green for KK and Daken will tank Purple.

My favorite - KK, Iron Fist, Gamora - If Gamora is in front she will tank Green/Red/Black/Blue, IF tanks Purple, leaving only yellow for KK which is a color you don't actually want. IF -> Gamora early then charge purple and red. Use Gamora to even out the enemy and finish with KK's .

KK/mystique/cyclops ~ full rainbow, cheap tile changing skills that accelerate the damaging skills, lots of potential for cascades

KK/Deadpool/BP ~ full rainbow, 3 AOEs, strong strike tiles, Deadpool intervenes trying to knock her out first, bad idea to leave Panther for last

KK/Sentry/Psylocke ~ full rainbow, cheap teammate attacks for heals to extend Sentry survival, strike tile/attack tile synergy

Mawtful

I don't really want to derail this thread into a GSBW discussion (any more than it already has). Both Widow and Kamala have a colour change ability which converts Purple AP to Green Tiles, and a Green damaging ability. Despite the similarities in ability colours and a vague kind of thematic similarity in the way the abilities work, I don't see Kamala's powerset as being appropriate for a Widow rework.

To me, Kamala is designed to fit a kind of support role - she tops up health, Green generation can be used to fuel herself & allies or it can be used to block out a high need colour for the opoonent, and she's got an activated attack to give her a bit of threat and be able to take over if the primary striker on the team goes down.

Widow should be trying to fit the same role. I see her as being more of a sneaky, "glass cannon" - the type of character who would be supported by Kamala. I've got my own thoughts on what a GSBW rework should look like, so I might post those somewhere else.

KT154

nnypirate wrote:

theshadeofopal

Mawtful wrote:

I don't really want to derail this thread into a GSBW discussion (any more than it already has). Both Widow and Kamala have a colour change ability which converts Purple AP to Green Tiles, and a Green damaging ability. Despite the similarities in ability colours and a vague kind of thematic similarity in the way the abilities work, I don't see Kamala's powerset as being appropriate for a Widow rework.

To me, Kamala is designed to fit a kind of support role - she tops up health, Green generation can be used to fuel herself & allies or it can be used to block out a high need colour for the opoonent, and she's got an activated attack to give her a bit of threat and be able to take over if the primary striker on the team goes down.

Widow should be trying to fit the same role. I see her as being more of a sneaky, "glass cannon" - the type of character who would be supported by Kamala. I've got my own thoughts on what a GSBW rework should look like, so I might post those somewhere else.

Repurposing Gsbw into what Khan is would have been pretty dramatic, but she would have been inarguably better. It's not so much that Gsbw doesn't currently fulfill a somewhat niche role, it's that she's not very good at it. Part of the justification of vaulting was that underpowered characters would be brought up to snuff upon their return. Gsbw has been weak since the game the game began and only dropped lower due to power creep. It's a little similar to how people feel about xaviers invisibility vs iw's but felt much more keenly because Khan and Gsbw are even more similar. I'd expect similar reactions if the same month she hulk got unvaulted, another hypothetical red blue green character was released. One with 8600+ health, a higher efficiency red all party, a blue enemy tile destroyer that also dealt damage, and a green active or passive that literally did anything that would be considered useful and not expensive. Different, but similar enough that comparisons would have to be drawn.

Anyway regarding partners, I'd say 3* miss marvel+ spidey or starlord. Stun lock combined with protect tiles, healing and more healing for super trolling. Starlords ap reduction with red ap gen mean lots of sucker punches to heal and slow down the enemy while marvel takes the few big hits that occasionally get through.

snlf25

Hendross wrote:

Finally Squirrel Girl has someone to hang with at the never gonna get used club.

Man, Beast gets no respect, can't even get into this club.

Unknown

So I was looking at the description and saw:

"Converts a chosen basic tile and 2 random basic tiles of the same color to Green"

So does that mean it can pick say, green, as the random color, which results in doing absolutely nothing besides placing a single green tile? After all, you can use Deceptive Tactics over plain old green tiles and the game doesn't care about that, because a green tile is a basic tile too. That'd mean there's a 1/6 chance it'll do practically nothing and is that why it seems to be a bit too good as an ability, because of the chance of doing nothing?

Sword user

Phantron wrote:

So I was looking at the description and saw:

"Converts a chosen basic tile and 2 random basic tiles of the same color to Green"

So does that mean it can pick say, green, as the random color, which results in doing absolutely nothing besides placing a single green tile? After all, you can use Deceptive Tactics over plain old green tiles and the game doesn't care about that, because a green tile is a basic tile too. That'd mean there's a 1/6 chance it'll do practically nothing and is that why it seems to be a bit too good as an ability, because of the chance of doing nothing?

That seems to be bad for the AI, if true, coming right out of the gate. I don't know that that really balances the ability, unless defensive balancing is the only balance. Has anyone run numbers on the cascade potential of this at 5 covers?

Unknown

8 AP for 8 tiles (and 1 you get to place) is a very good ratio for a conversion ability, especially since you do get to place one of the tiles. Since they all have to be the same color, it's probably slightly less likely for a huge conversion (because that'd require everything clustered together to be in the same color that didn't already match itself) but it's still plenty good and the only ability that beats it is Iron Fist's purple which is downright insane. Now if there's a 1/6 chance of it failing (converting green randomly to green would be exactly the same as placing 1 green tile for 8 AP) you can roughly think of it as 8 AP for (7*5/6) + 1 = ~7 tiles which is still pretty good, though the time it failed it wouldn't feel good at all.

Sword user

Phantron wrote:

8 AP for 8 tiles (and 1 you get to place) is a very good ratio for a conversion ability, especially since you do get to place one of the tiles. Since they all have to be the same color, it's probably slightly less likely for a huge conversion (because that'd require everything clustered together to be in the same color that didn't already match itself) but it's still plenty good and the only ability that beats it is Iron Fist's purple which is downright insane. Now if there's a 1/6 chance of it failing (converting green randomly to green would be exactly the same as placing 1 green tile for 8 AP) you can roughly think of it as 8 AP for (7*5/6) + 1 = ~7 tiles which is still pretty good, though the time it failed it wouldn't feel good at all.

I think that many (including myself) are reading this as: pick a tile (r, g, y, black, blue, purple) that tile, plus x additional tiles of that color are converted to green. The random in that case would be which tiles of that color are converted.

I read your suggestion in this context, IE, the AI could pick a green tile to convert, and thus do no converting.

Your reading is that one gets to chose one tile to become green and then a color is randomly determined, that color has x number of tiles converted to green.

That's a huge difference.

Unknown

Sword user wrote:

Phantron wrote:

8 AP for 8 tiles (and 1 you get to place) is a very good ratio for a conversion ability, especially since you do get to place one of the tiles. Since they all have to be the same color, it's probably slightly less likely for a huge conversion (because that'd require everything clustered together to be in the same color that didn't already match itself) but it's still plenty good and the only ability that beats it is Iron Fist's purple which is downright insane. Now if there's a 1/6 chance of it failing (converting green randomly to green would be exactly the same as placing 1 green tile for 8 AP) you can roughly think of it as 8 AP for (7*5/6) + 1 = ~7 tiles which is still pretty good, though the time it failed it wouldn't feel good at all.

I think that many (including myself) are reading this as: pick a tile (r, g, y, black, blue, purple) that tile, plus x additional tiles of that color are converted to green. The random in that case would be which tiles of that color are converted.

I read your suggestion in this context, IE, the AI could pick a green tile to convert, and thus do no converting.

Your reading is that one gets to chose one tile to become green and then a color is randomly determined, that color has x number of tiles converted to green.

That's a huge difference.

I see what you're saying now. If it's like that, it's very unlikely to get both the benefit of the placed and the color conversion because the ideal place to put a green tile has no relationship to the best color to convert to green so it's either going to be:

1. 8 purple AP for a match 4/5 plus whatever.
2. 8 purple AP for an 8 tile random conversion (including the one you placed, but placed in a spot that might as well be random).

In that case this ability would be surprisingly balanced since it'd be awfully hard to get both effects at the same time.

Mawtful

Phantron wrote:

So I was looking at the description and saw:

"Converts a chosen basic tile and 2 random basic tiles of the same color to Green"

So does that mean it can pick say, green, as the random color, which results in doing absolutely nothing besides placing a single green tile? After all, you can use Deceptive Tactics over plain old green tiles and the game doesn't care about that, because a green tile is a basic tile too. That'd mean there's a 1/6 chance it'll do practically nothing and is that why it seems to be a bit too good as an ability, because of the chance of doing nothing?

Did they change Deceptive Tactics again? I recall a whole patch dedicated to changing DT so it cannot target Green tiles.

Edit: DT cannot target Green tiles. http://i.imgur.com/V03qxbC.jpg

Unknown

Mawtful wrote:

Phantron wrote:

So I was looking at the description and saw:

"Converts a chosen basic tile and 2 random basic tiles of the same color to Green"

So does that mean it can pick say, green, as the random color, which results in doing absolutely nothing besides placing a single green tile? After all, you can use Deceptive Tactics over plain old green tiles and the game doesn't care about that, because a green tile is a basic tile too. That'd mean there's a 1/6 chance it'll do practically nothing and is that why it seems to be a bit too good as an ability, because of the chance of doing nothing?

Did they change Deceptive Tactics again? I recall a whole patch dedicated to changing DT so it cannot target Green tiles.

Edit: DT cannot target Green tiles. http://i.imgur.com/V03qxbC.jpg

For those keeping score, this is why Polarity shift was OP and Deceptive tactics wasn't. Maybe.

hurcules

The one thing I noticed about tile colour-converting abilities is that the more constraints (TU tiles, special tiles etc) there are on the board, the higher chance of cascades. So KK purple may actually be better than most people expect. Time to bug NorthernPolarity to simulate this

Cabol

Soooo... I understand wanting to put in Kamala... but why a 3rd Ms Marvel character when there's so many notable abscenses?

Doc L

snlf25 wrote:

Hendross wrote:

Finally Squirrel Girl has someone to hang with at the never gonna get used club.

Man, Beast gets no respect, can't even get into this club.

He's in the 'not even worth a roster slot' group with Doc Ock