*** Daredevil (Man Without Fear) ***

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Comments

  • if you kill daken, he doesn't heal and he doesn't produce strike tiles. That takes only 2 ambush matches. Just sayin'
  • Don't know if this was posted earlier but I was playing DD pvp and the enemy AI tossed a billyclub. I matched his cd tile (my DD tanks blueflag.png ) and I got the blueflag.png AP return. Probably a glitch. I don't know if it would work with another character tanking blueflag.png
  • KolenceKolence Posts: 701 Critical Contributor
    Don't know if this was posted earlier but I was playing DD pvp and the enemy AI tossed a billyclub. I matched his cd tile (my DD tanks blueflag.png ) and I got the blueflag.png AP return. Probably a glitch. I don't know if it would work with another character tanking blueflag.png
    I have the opposite problem. When I match my billy club CD, I get no extra bluetile.png ap, just the 3 from a match. I've tried it several times in pve DD node, there's no mistake about it.

    Another thing. When the billy club CD resolves and relocates somewhere "lower" on the board, it will activate once more in that same turn and reduce its countdown. It can mess up stunlocking with two (or more) billy clubs when they all sync and activate on the same one opponent.
  • Hmmm. I may be an idiot and not have accounted for the ap gain from the match... I'll try again.

    Also the cd timer happens to all cd tiles like that. Even goons unfortunately.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,297 Chairperson of the Boards
    As I have been playing this PVP I have decided to switch DD to 3,5,5 from 5,3,5. I have only used purple with patch as I am seeing so few special tiles on the board. I am using billy club a lot more than radar sense. I think DD build will really depend on where you are in the game. If you are transitioning to 3* and hav a good patch maxing out purple is really good to help you transition. Once you get a more diverse 3* team his blue becomes a lot stronger, and more usefull. Perma stun with level 5 blue, can be just as good as LCap, and if you have a lot of red on the board ambush is great. In PVE 3 purple will do fine against 2* Daken and bullseye as it will do decent damage and will still destroy special tiles. I am now a 3,5,5 over 5,3,5 after this PVP
  • GuntherBlobelGuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2014
    In a room filled with ninjas, Daredevil should not be getting killed by Trap tiles. His Radar Sense should work on Strike, Protect, Attack, or Trap tiles.
    Absolutely agree about Radar Sense. It should reveal trap tiles at very least.
  • After playing the DD PVP, 355 is the way to go, especially since purple does not affect CD's or traps.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Is it really a good idea to base build decisions on how he played during the PvP? It's not as if he's ever going to be close to being in one of your top tier teams. He's strictly niche, which is why 5 purple seems to make the most sense.
  • Unless you're just fighting Daken or Hand Ninjas all day there's no reason to not have 3/5/5, and that's mostly because Ambush is pretty hard to use on guys who spam abilities on red tiles. Billy Club is actually pretty decent as a stun at level 5 and sure it's no Captain America but it's still more likely to be used compared to Radar Sense. Radar Sense also does very little damage. I remember getting a level 350 Radar Sense and it did like 5000 damage total (5X1000).
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 651 Critical Contributor
    I'm going to change mine to 5/5/3 because I'm only going to use him with Patch or against Daken/Blade. His red is solid but there are a lot of good red abilities to choose from. Purple's a color I need a power for.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Billy Club is actually pretty decent as a stun at level 5 and sure it's no Captain America but it's still more likely to be used compared to Radar Sense. Radar Sense also does very little damage. I remember getting a level 350 Radar Sense and it did like 5000 damage total (5X1000).
    If I'm fighting goons, do I have a better purple option for damage and tile clearing? And you're right, his blue definitely isn't Cap, and if I'm fighting goons, I'm already going to be using him. Sure, if you have no Cap or no LadyThor, DD provides a good blue stun, but if you do, all I'd want DD for is to clear out any big strike tiles that slip by.
  • wiriuswirius Age Unconfirmed Posts: 667
    edited December 2014
    Love your game D3, Your Daredevil remake on abilities is outstanding. The only problem is...they don't fit the mold of a low hp character.

    In looking at your 6k health characters, a very clear pattern emerges. Generally, low hp characters have cheaper abilities, abilities that are more difficult to counter once they go off, and "scary" abilities. I understand this means they're more of a glass cannon, which make sense. But Daredevil's abilities don't fit this pattern, let me explain why.

    1. Radar Sense- This is a wonderful ability that can help with special tile clearing. The problem is that special tiles require time to build up! Negating tiles is a nice defensive ability, and the damage is icing on the cake for 10 ap. Still, ten ap is a lot of ap for a low health character, and if we compare this nich ability to magneto's useful all the time blue (an excellent remade character btw, 5*s for you guys), and it seems poor for a low hp character. With 2k more health or more, this ability becomes a LOT better, and fits in with the higher cost characters abilities.

    2. Billy club- Another great reworked ability. The idea is to get your billy clubs out, let the countdowns go, and let the stuns go to town. If you gather more blue, you can make more. Comparing to captain America, a higher hp character, we see a remarkable simularity to his blue 2 turn stun, with a bonus of an amazing defensive tile after. Still, Captain America gets to place his tile, whereas Daredevil doesn't. Also, like Captain America, Daredevil's stun becomes more powerful as the game goes on, gameplay that would suit a high health character, not a low health character that needs his impact to be quick.

    3. Ambush- Much improved. However, this is again not a low health character ability. By the time you match enough red to throw out a trap, there may be one red match left, and several other scattered red tiles. Thus when you throw this ability out, its often going to be a while before it gets matched, if ever. Traps are a waiting mans game. They're suppossed to provide tension when Daredevil is the defender, and careful planning through matching and tile destruction when on offense to get the tiles to line up. Again, this is a tanky characters move, not a glass cannon.

    Again, I want to reiterate, your remake on the abilities is outstanding. However, the low HP simply does not fit a character with these abilities now, and I cannot justify using him in my roster. If you pump an extra 2k HP into him, I believe he'll be closer to a tier one character, the goal for all your characters if possible. As it is, the mismatch between hp and abilities puts him in a solid tier 3. Its definitely an improvement from trash tier, but I know you guys want, and can do better than that.


    Edit! - Having discussed with others and feedback here, it seems and extra 1k health more is the communities gut instinct.
  • wiriuswirius Age Unconfirmed Posts: 667
    HI abilities seem more suited to a much higher hp character. 6k hp characters seem to have high impact low cost abilities while higher health characters have more utility and abilities that need time to get really rolling.

    What do you think? Maybe 2k more hp for the abilities to actually fit?
  • I like him the way he is. Just wish they'd change purple back to its old ability, or following nonce' s idea have it affect traps and/or cd's in addition to other special tiles.
  • Chrono_TataChrono_Tata Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    An 8-red-AP move that can one-hit KO and a 9-blue-AP move that can perpetually stun aren't high-impact low-cost enough for you?
  • wiriuswirius Age Unconfirmed Posts: 667
    Don't get me wrong, his abilities are great!...on a higher hp character. Compare his abilities and costs to someone like Punisher, Magneto, or Daken. He doesn't even come close. However, compare his abilities to someone like captain america, and they seem in that power range and utility. All of his abilities take time to get rolling or e effective.

    6k health people are supposed to be effective early or have some immediate ability you need to worry about. Daredevil's abilities are all about the waiting game, something for a higher health character.
  • wiriuswirius Age Unconfirmed Posts: 667
    An 8-red-AP move that can one-hit KO and a 9-blue-AP move that can perpetually stun aren't high-impact low-cost enough for you?

    Ambush- By the time you put it out, you might have one or two red matches still available, and several scattered unmatchable red. There's a very high chance this trap will be matched much later. That is an ability for a high health character, not a low health character.

    Billy Club-Countdown tile is placed randomly, only 3 less, or one match less then caps blue, which is almost permastun, gives an amazing defensive tile, AND can be placed by the player to override other tiles. Spider man can stun for 4 turns with 10 blue ap. If your random tile lasts more than 2 turns, great. But again, this is an ability that gains greater benefit the longer it is out, and has time to be countered. This is something that a high hp character has, not a squishy glass cannon.
  • Chrono_TataChrono_Tata Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    While your trap tile could be matched much later, it is also possible to be matched straight away. It is a risky move, but it does give you the chance to do a ton of very quick damage. As far as gameplay design goes I don't think it could be considered a slow move.

    For Billy Club, while you can gain more benefit the longer the tile stays on the board, it does give you benefit right at activation and is relatively cheap. Even without the countdown tile, 2 turns of stun for 3 matches isn't a terrible deal.

    Having said that, I'm not saying that I disagree with buffing his health a bit, but I don't really think he is a "slow charging" character like Cap or Grey Widow (who really needs a health buff lol), for example. He's a pretty unique character in MPQ but I think he's the closest power- and style-wise to Psylocke and the Punisher, which is why they are in the same health tier.
  • If he had more health then Ambush will probably end up doing like 4000 damage on an enemy match and 1000 damage on your match instead. You can't give a high health character the ability to one shot, even conditionally, people in the 6800 HP range, since most characters in that range sure can't one shot each themselves either. Well, that's assuming the said character is somewhat balanced. If you put Daredevil with Loki, it becomes considerably easier to rearrange the red tiles into a useful configuration.
  • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    The only fix Daredevil needs (and Elektra, and anyone in the future using traps) is that his trap tiles are not overriden by countdown tiles. I can understand being overriden by strike tiles, as those are rarer and only a handful of characters make them. But countdown tiles? They become utterly useless against goons! In this event with DD and Elektra essential nodes I have learned not to ever use their red or black abilities because the trap tiles never survive longer than a turn. It's just stupid.
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