No X-Force No Point

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

By this logic nobody should ever be nerfed. What we are arguing here is the line that should be drawn when a character makes others completely obsolete. These are the things developers think about when nerfing/buffing/creating characters.

If not nerfing character's is your perspective, I can tell you for a fact that it is not the perspective of the developers, or likely any game. Balance is important.

And by your logic no cover should be better than another...because if one actually is, everyone will use that cover and you will see exactly what you see now in pvp. Nothing will change except the name of the cover. I don't understand why people fail to see this. Even if this cover is ever so slightly better than another and "more balanced" you won't see any diversity, and that cover will render all others "obsolete" in pvp because why would competitive players use inferior covers...even if it's ever so slightly inferior?

This is absolutely not true. Yes there will always be characters that are better than others, there is no such thing as perfect balance. You would be right if you don't take into account synergy with other characters. Characters have different color combinations making them synergize well with eachother. For instance Daredevil isn't top tier, but his colors synergize well with X-Force perfectly so it makes him that much more viable as a character pairing vs Steve. Then you have synergy with abilities as well, we will use X-Force again as an example again. His synergy is poor with characters who drop special tiles on the board because of his guaranteed board destruction. Because of this mid tier or even low tier could still be used even with a tiered system.

The problem starts when a character is so good synergy becomes only a trivial boost. You will use X-Force when Storm is featured in PVP because he is that good. This won't happen when characters fall closer in ability level with each other, and this is possible.

I'm not even sure how you can make an argument when the developers have already implemented nerfs in the past making my logic in line with theirs. They know rampant imbalances ruin the game.

Competitive players want to win. Nerf all the 4stars to 3 star level, won't matter, then the top players will just find the best 3 star and use those to dominate because they spend money on shields and other players don't or won't spend to the degree they do.

What? You think people would ignore the 100+ levels a 4* has? Do you choose to fight 166 Black Panther over a 94 Ares? If so, you might want to rethink your strategy here.

Everyone realizes that we will have to fight 4*s still in PVE right? I would think 2* and 3* rosters wouldn't want 4*s stronger per capita than the other ranks because this would give a huge advantage to 4* rosters since everyone is scaled to their roster. If I have a 4* who is outright mechanically better than 1* 2* and 3* when they are equivalent levels, how is that fair to those rosters?

Vertigozooropa wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Are you talking better/stronger or unique? I don't think X-Force is very unique, you can't staple multiple abilities onto one ability and call it new.

Surgical Strike is completely unique. No other ability looks at the enemy's strongest colour, and erases it from the board. That's a very mean trick.

Kinda, but I wouldn't say it is unique as charged tiles, billy club, etc. I see his black as targeting enemies strongest color to do (X), which has been done, and specified tile destruction which has been done.

Adding damage, AP collection, and AP reduction to it may or may not make it more unique (your mileage may vary, as they say) but it doesn't change its basic nature as the most universally mean ability in the game.

I'm talking stronger, better, and unique. I think Fury's ability to call down five separate effects with one command, depending on your AP stores is strong and unique. Also, I just remembered that before the recent Daredevil buff, Nick Fury was the only character to put down traps that you could match for bonus damage.

If the two abilities synergize in a devastating way, that's unique in its way. Also, unique abilties aren't limited to 4* characters. It's just that 4* characters tend to be uniquely dangerous.

I will agree it is definitely the meanest ability in the game, but it really is just hash of mean abilities from other characters. I agree that nick's yellow is unique in that it gets stronger with the variety ap you have saved.

Go ahead nerf it, get a petition, lead the charge, and when it goes the way of sentry and is useless, then everyone will just migrate to the next thing and those outside the top 5/10/25 will still be on the outside looking in. That's exactly what happened with sentry and wasn't he a 3 star that was more attainable by the masses? People complained then as he mowed through everything. But the same people willing to outspend on shields and have good to decent rosters always come out on top. But nerf xforce I don't really care I will be ready for the next cover to focus on, I'll have 400k ISO here in about a week to jump to the next cover to be overpowered. People can focus on 4hor cause...wow...power surge is 99/100 game over.

Golf clap.

Unknown

The topic is discussing how to improve character diversity not nerf X force.

Nerf X force is a choice but not wise, buff bad character , more way to get 4* character is the right way to go.

7 day PVE or top 1 in PVP is not the answer for sure

Dauthi

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

By this logic nobody should ever be nerfed. What we are arguing here is the line that should be drawn when a character makes others completely obsolete. These are the things developers think about when nerfing/buffing/creating characters.

If not nerfing character's is your perspective, I can tell you for a fact that it is not the perspective of the developers, or likely any game. Balance is important.

And by your logic no cover should be better than another...because if one actually is, everyone will use that cover and you will see exactly what you see now in pvp. Nothing will change except the name of the cover. I don't understand why people fail to see this. Even if this cover is ever so slightly better than another and "more balanced" you won't see any diversity, and that cover will render all others "obsolete" in pvp because why would competitive players use inferior covers...even if it's ever so slightly inferior?

This is absolutely not true. Yes there will always be characters that are better than others, there is no such thing as perfect balance. You would be right if you don't take into account synergy with other characters. Characters have different color combinations making them synergize well with eachother. For instance Daredevil isn't top tier, but his colors synergize well with X-Force perfectly so it makes him that much more viable as a character pairing vs Steve. Then you have synergy with abilities as well, we will use X-Force again as an example again. His synergy is poor with characters who drop special tiles on the board because of his guaranteed board destruction. Because of this mid tier or even low tier could still be used even with a tiered system.

The problem starts when a character is so good synergy becomes only a trivial boost. You will use X-Force when Storm is featured in PVP because he is that good. This won't happen when characters fall closer in ability level with each other, and this is possible.

I'm not even sure how you can make an argument when the developers have already implemented nerfs in the past making my logic in line with theirs. They know rampant imbalances ruin the game.

Competitive players want to win. Nerf all the 4stars to 3 star level, won't matter, then the top players will just find the best 3 star and use those to dominate because they spend money on shields and other players don't or won't spend to the degree they do.

What? You think people would ignore the 100+ levels a 4* has? Do you choose to fight 166 Black Panther over a 94 Ares? If so, you might want to rethink your strategy here.

Everyone realizes that we will have to fight 4*s still in PVE right? I would think 2* and 3* rosters wouldn't want 4*s stronger per capita than the other ranks because this would give a huge advantage to 4* rosters since everyone is scaled to their roster. If I have a 4* who is outright mechanically better than 1* 2* and 3* when they are equivalent levels, how is that fair to those rosters?

Vertigozooropa wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Are you talking better/stronger or unique? I don't think X-Force is very unique, you can't staple multiple abilities onto one ability and call it new.

Surgical Strike is completely unique. No other ability looks at the enemy's strongest colour, and erases it from the board. That's a very mean trick.

Kinda, but I wouldn't say it is unique as charged tiles, billy club, etc. I see his black as targeting enemies strongest color to do (X), which has been done, and specified tile destruction which has been done.

Adding damage, AP collection, and AP reduction to it may or may not make it more unique (your mileage may vary, as they say) but it doesn't change its basic nature as the most universally mean ability in the game.

I'm talking stronger, better, and unique. I think Fury's ability to call down five separate effects with one command, depending on your AP stores is strong and unique. Also, I just remembered that before the recent Daredevil buff, Nick Fury was the only character to put down traps that you could match for bonus damage.

If the two abilities synergize in a devastating way, that's unique in its way. Also, unique abilties aren't limited to 4* characters. It's just that 4* characters tend to be uniquely dangerous.

I will agree it is definitely the meanest ability in the game, but it really is just hash of mean abilities from other characters. I agree that nick's yellow is unique in that it gets stronger with the variety ap you have saved.

Go ahead nerf it, get a petition, lead the charge, and when it goes the way of sentry and is useless, then everyone will just migrate to the next thing and those outside the top 5/10/25 will still be on the outside looking in. That's exactly what happened with sentry and wasn't he a 3 star that was more attainable by the masses? People complained then as he mowed through everything. But the same people willing to outspend on shields and have good to decent rosters always come out on top. But nerf xforce I don't really care I will be ready for the next cover to focus on, I'll have 400k ISO here in about a week to jump to the next cover to be overpowered. People can focus on 4hor cause...wow...power surge is 99/100 game over.

Golf clap.

Everyone knew X-Force was overpowered and that everyone would migrate when Sentry got nerfed. Sentry was simply faster at killing giving better shield hops.

It's true, Lady Thor is a guaranteed win once she gets started, but the same can be said about 3* Thor (just not in crazy scaled PVE). Both take time to win too, which is why X-Force is more valuable in PVP where speed kills are invaluable for hopping. She can also be compared to someone like Grey Suit, because she is great on offense (as a green battery), but terrible at warding off players. Lady Thor is probably not going to kill you if you attack her.

With those vulnerabilities in mind, players may choose to opt her out for a future 4* that is better on defense.

Wonko33

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Go ahead nerf it, get a petition, lead the charge, and when it goes the way of sentry and is useless, then everyone will just migrate to the next thing and those outside the top 5/10/25 will still be on the outside looking in. That's exactly what happened with sentry and wasn't he a 3 star that was more attainable by the masses? People complained then as he mowed through everything. But the same people willing to outspend on shields and have good to decent rosters always come out on top. But nerf xforce I don't really care I will be ready for the next cover to focus on, I'll have 400k ISO here in about a week to jump to the next cover to be overpowered. People can focus on 4hor cause...wow...power surge is 99/100 game over.

Golf clap.

add Ragnarock - 2*thor and Wolvie - Spidey - Cmags. to the list. it sure helped the game when they got nerfed- Everybody stopped complaining, it was now fair for everyone and we finally had roster diversity.

SnowcaTT

Wonko33 wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Go ahead nerf it, get a petition, lead the charge, and when it goes the way of sentry and is useless, then everyone will just migrate to the next thing and those outside the top 5/10/25 will still be on the outside looking in. That's exactly what happened with sentry and wasn't he a 3 star that was more attainable by the masses? People complained then as he mowed through everything. But the same people willing to outspend on shields and have good to decent rosters always come out on top. But nerf xforce I don't really care I will be ready for the next cover to focus on, I'll have 400k ISO here in about a week to jump to the next cover to be overpowered. People can focus on 4hor cause...wow...power surge is 99/100 game over.

Golf clap.

add Ragnarock - 2*thor and Wolvie - Spidey - Cmags. to the list. it sure helped the game when they got nerfed- Everybody stopped complaining, it was now fair for everyone and we finally had roster diversity.

I assume that is sarcasm. Well done sir!

GrumpySmurf1002

Dauthi wrote:

It's true, Lady Thor is a guaranteed win once she gets started, but the same can be said about 3* Thor (just not in crazy scaled PVE). Both take time to win too, which is why X-Force is more valuable in PVP where speed kills are invaluable for hopping. She can also be compared to someone like Grey Suit, because she is great on offense (as a green battery), but terrible at warding off players. Lady Thor is probably not going to kill you if you attack her.

With those vulnerabilities in mind, players may choose to opt her out for a future 4* that is better on defense.

Lady Thor is no worse on defense than Sentry was/is. At the top of PvP, defense is a very small component compared to shield spend/speed kills.

simonsez

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Lady Thor is no worse on defense than Sentry was/is.

I would disagree. A supernova will ruin your day way worse than a no-surge smite (which is the only kind the AI knows)

Dauthi

simonsez wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Lady Thor is no worse on defense than Sentry was/is.

I would disagree. A supernova will ruin your day way worse than a no-surge smite (which is the only kind the AI knows)

Agreed.

Also, a Sentry yellow is not only likely to happen due to low cost, but it sucks when it gets lodged on the board somewhere you can't reach.

Unknown

Starting to really hate this game with No Xforce.

As OP says, NO XFORCE NO POINT.

I'm done dumping (Buying) HP to shield past 700 pts in pvp. There is no point. I can beat anyone in this game, but cannot progress beyond 700 pts. For every 21 pts I gain I lose 55. Every time, no matter at 2am, 5pm, etc etc. 1.5 months and I get Xforce green/blk as daily rewards. Until then MPQ gets no more $$$. On the bright side, I'll have the ISO by then to lvl him instantly.


inb4 I just got Xforce and he was just nerfed thread

PurdyPrince

It is possible without Xforce. I got my first 1000 in pvp using hulk and patch both 166. It was hard and nerve wracking but I got it done with 775 hp. I probably would've gotten it done with less hp if i started earlier. You really have to time it right otherwise you are biting your nails hoping someone doesn't go after you while you are pushing. It helped that I pushed during off-peak time although I had to figure that out the hard way.

IT IS POSSIBLE!!!

Unknown

PurdyPrince wrote:

It is possible without Xforce. I got my first 1000 in pvp using hulk and patch both 166. It was hard and nerve wracking but I got it done with 775 hp. I probably would've gotten it done with less hp if i started earlier. You really have to time it right otherwise you are biting your nails hoping someone doesn't go after you while you are pushing. It helped that I pushed during off-peak time although I had to figure that out the hard way.

IT IS POSSIBLE!!!

I've seen tons of 3* rosters get well over 1000 in the past few pvp events. This thread is obsolete.