No X-Force No Point

Unknown

I do question the game's design to reward a relatively small expenditure of money (shields) that seems to trump the big expenditure of money (roster slots, cover upgrades, token packs). You could have bought every single character in the game straight up and yet without the last couple hundred HP you'll not get too far in PvP. Given it costs several hundred dollars to max out a 4* from scratch, you'd think you ought to reward that over getting $3 every other event from some guy, but the game bizarrely doesn't work like that. I suppose it makes it fairer for the F2P/small spenders compared to whales, but that's a very weird way to make things equal.

lokiagentofhotness

Phantron wrote:

I do question the game's design to reward a relatively small expenditure of money (shields) that seems to trump the big expenditure of money (roster slots, cover upgrades, token packs). You could have bought every single character in the game straight up and yet without the last couple hundred HP you'll not get too far in PvP. Given it costs several hundred dollars to max out a 4* from scratch, you'd think you ought to reward that over getting $3 every other event from some guy, but the game bizarrely doesn't work like that. I suppose it makes it fairer for the F2P/small spenders compared to whales, but that's a very weird way to make things equal.

Right now getting to 1000 requires math (for shield calculation), ISO (for finding suitable targets while shielded+boosts), co-ordinated line chats (for some). Oh and you still have to beat the AI (you might get a bad cascade or just not have a strong enough team). Buying a cover requires...pressing the buy button. In any case what exactly should the "reward" be when we are only fighting for essentially what you are bypassing by paying for it, ie. covers? Should people who are p2w automatically get No 1? Free 10 packs? P2W players already have it easier - they get to max out covers before everyone else who have to wait for them for it to be released, which means a progressively easier chance of getting to 1000, getting to No 1.

Unknown

Well I can get to 725 reward with x 2 166 characters. I do then get beat down by the 4* crew to around 650. But it's not that bad a score.

Granted, the xforce/4thor teams are a bit tiresome, but then so was Sentry/Hood etc. There will always be a top team.

Unknown

I've never purchased Xforce covers.
I was just lucky enough to have a Sentry and won maybe 7 covers back in the good ole sentry bombing days.

But yes, they definitely need to make it possible for non 4 star users to get 4 star covers.

It isn't like back then when a 3 star character could net you 4 star covers. Now, you basically need 4 stars to get 4 stars.

Which is a very Republican way of building a game. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Not good for morale either.

Unknown

For some reason I am seeing a lot of X-Force plus Moonstone lately. I guess she has active abilities in Red + Purple, and is a bit of a tank for a 2*, but really?

Everyone knows X-Force is the end-game, down to the beginning player.

Unknown

this is a very big problem the have

I dont think this dev team THINK about it but top prize is dominate by richer and richer become richer

poor get no hope to catch up.

i think the game will not survive transition from 4 to 5

Unknown

Lots of mixed statements in this thread. Some say x-force is just a scarecrow and isn't anything to be afraid of, some say they fight him anyway and still cant earn 4*s. Some fight him anyway and do earn 4*s. Some people say they spend 400 HP to get to 1000. I remember the feeling of spending tons of hero points trying to get something I wanted and through bad luck whatever failing to reach my goal. Now that is demoralizing. Yes you feel great if you can shield hop and get a 4* prize you want for cheap but there are those out there as well who try to do everything right and get a bad board that slows the game down enough that you earn 30 and lose 120 for being slow. Having x-force is generally faster, more reliable, safer, provides more scarecrow effect than most 3* teams. Yes there are always going to be players who have the time/HP to earn what they want without him but that doesn't mean the game should stop progressing at all for those who don't have that kind of time or HP to spend.

Unknown

Yes, it's lame.

Yes, i'm counting down the days until I receive xforce daily rewards.

Phaserhawk

I highly disagree. When it was X-Force/Hood, it was never a problem, even 4hor isn't much of a threat skill wise, it's her massive hit points that slows you up and then allows for more retaliation while you climb. If I had every 3* maxed and no 4*' I would do this.

There are 3 colors you need to keep an eye out for. Green/Black/Red.

Now to add a 4th character to your team, run Captain American or C.Mags. ? you are asking. Well they have 4hor, and she can boost red/yellow/blue tiles that C.Mags and Captain can use as well, so when you know her blue is going to go off, try to get a guy you don't need stunned, the AI doesnt match any specific color and you can start matching what you need.

Tips on how to deal with X-Force teams and get 1K points.

1.)Remember, you can survive an X-Force, but not so much a Surgical Strike.
2.)Have your strongest color not be a color they can use, although this is generally not possible if you have a highly leveled feature
3.)You need to have 4-6 maxed 3*'s you can rotate through, this will save you on health packs [recomeded] Patch,Daken,Cap America,Black Panther, Thor, Hood, Loki, Dr. Doom (well times purple can one shot Xforce or 4hor), Luke Cage, C.Mags, Deadpool (if you have enough DP points you can boost purple and insta win), Punisher (5 covered red is amazing), Blade, Mystique (you can one shot 4hor or X-Force if you get her combo off), Hulk
4.)You need to set a shielding schedule, you will end up spending a little more HP than an established 4* team, but if you run a schedule, que up people during peak times and play in off times to lower retalations you can make strong pushes before having to reshield

I could go on, but essentially you are going to need multiple 3*'s to rotate through as well as a strict shielding schedule and you can make it to 1K for 675HP.

Wonko33

- My question to people who have this complaint is always the same- Why do you think you should be able to get max rewards and top placement when you do not have the best characters? Just like the first Gauntlet, I could not beat it with my roster, but I think it's fair that people with better rosters can get further than me.

- Second questions for the people who are free players and complain about pay to win: Why should a company bend over backwards to accommodate you when they could spend time to accommodate their paying customers?

Playing for free is fine- I played that way for about 10 months, but basically it's more "save to lose" than pay to win- you are cannon fodder for their paying customers. This is the business model, the model is clear, if you don't like it or don't think it's fair, move on. It's like dating someone you don't like and nagging them to change for you.

edit: not you Bad Habit, don't move on we need you in the alliance

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

- My question to people who have this complaint is always the same- Why do you think you should be able to get max rewards and top placement when you do not have the best characters?

I feel like you just started typing without reading a single post in this thread. The problem is that there is no way for lower players to ever catch the higher players. You need 4* characters to win any 4* awards at all. There is no transition from 3* to 4* without spending hundreds of dollars. There must be some way for lower players to catch up, you can't just let the top rosters automatically stay on top forever.

Wonko33

rooter wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

- My question to people who have this complaint is always the same- Why do you think you should be able to get max rewards and top placement when you do not have the best characters?

I feel like you just started typing without reading a single post in this thread. The problem is that there is no way for lower players to ever catch the higher players. You need 4* characters to win any 4* awards at all. There is no transition from 3* to 4* without spending hundreds of dollars. There must be some way for lower players to catch up, you can't just let the top rosters automatically stay on top forever.

my point wasn't clear, at a certain point you almost have to spend money to be competitive, that's in their interest to make it that way

and I did with buying only 2 xforce covers not $100s, they give the first ones to everyone who has played for a while, i got a few from tokens, bought the 2 I needed to get 5 green and started earning the rest - problem is people play for a few months and think that stuff should fall out of the sky for free and complain that people who played for more than a year or have spent $1000s should be on equal grounds

GrumpySmurf1002

rednailz wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

I've been waiting for a chance to post this, and no greater point than this thread:



Even newbies understand 4* is the way to advance most quickly. With the slow rate of 4* covers available, this makes the game more P2W than ever.

That proves a couple points, one of them being some one decided to drop hundreds of dollars into a game at the beginning instead of playing it, which is kind of sad. That's like hiring someone in Korea to play your charecter in a MMO or RPG IMO
All that player needs is 1 of each cover for GT and a few hundred more dollars and they can retire.

You still have to get the XForce covers because you can buy the rest. The chance that's a 'new' player is pretty slim.

I'd guess that player has had the game at least 4 months, if not the 180 days required to get them from daily.

MarvelMan

Wonko33 wrote:

my point wasn't clear, at a certain point you almost have to spend money to be competitive, that's in their interest to make it that way

The key to your point is the part I bolded. As F2P, I dont expect to always be competitive but there should be a method to achieve reasonable progress. The argument, right or wrong, of this thread is that its not possible to progress without having the fruit acquired by completing that progression. Bit of a chicken/egg thing going on right now, with the only way to break out being to get extremely luck and then pay through the nose (win the token lottery and then buy the rest). And its not just the 3* -> 4* part. Its also the 2* -> 3*. The current progression rewards necessary for meaningful advancement are pretty much out of reach of those needing them.

Wonko33

MarvelMan wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

my point wasn't clear, at a certain point you almost have to spend money to be competitive, that's in their interest to make it that way

The key to your point is the part I bolded. As F2P, I dont expect to always be competitive but there should be a method to achieve reasonable progress. The argument, right or wrong, of this thread is that its not possible to progress without having the fruit acquired by completing that progression. Bit of a chicken/egg thing going on right now, with the only way to break out being to get extremely luck and then pay through the nose (win the token lottery and then buy the rest). And its not just the 3* -> 4* part. Its also the 2* -> 3*. The current progression rewards necessary for meaningful advancement are pretty much out of reach of those needing them.

why? why should they provide a way for people who spend nothing and get free entertainment to progress to the same level that paying customer achieve? There is a way to progress btw, it is only chicken and egg for people who will not spend on their game. They provide the starter covers for free in the daily rewards and a few ways to earn or pay your way up.

Shields and boosts are another example of this, they provide a way to basically overachieve and accelerate your progress if you choose to.

MarvelMan

Wonko33 wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

my point wasn't clear, at a certain point you almost have to spend money to be competitive, that's in their interest to make it that way

The key to your point is the part I bolded. As F2P, I dont expect to always be competitive but there should be a method to achieve reasonable progress. The argument, right or wrong, of this thread is that its not possible to progress without having the fruit acquired by completing that progression. Bit of a chicken/egg thing going on right now, with the only way to break out being to get extremely luck and then pay through the nose (win the token lottery and then buy the rest). And its not just the 3* -> 4* part. Its also the 2* -> 3*. The current progression rewards necessary for meaningful advancement are pretty much out of reach of those needing them.

why? why should they provide a way for people who spend nothing and get free entertainment to progress to the same level that paying customer achieve? There is a way to progress btw, it is only chicken and egg for people who will not spend on their game. They provide the starter covers for free in the daily rewards and a few ways to earn or pay your way up.

Shields and boosts are another example of this, they provide a way to basically overachieve and accelerate your progress if you choose to.

Note that I am NOT advocating for F2P and people willing to spend end up on equal footing. There should be a benefit to paying, its why the game exists and how they pay the bills.

I am saying that there needs to be meaningful advancement for the F2P demographic to keep the community healthy. The argument is whether that is currently the case. The rate at which characters come out, the cost of roster slots, the necessity of shields to achieve punching above your natural level in order to get close to the rewards that offer even the smallest amount of progression, the low odds on tokens and the other current issues all seem to indicate, fairly obviously to me, the answer is no. But only the devs will really have the data to know whether the game is healthy enough to sustain itself.

scottee

MarvelMan wrote:

I am saying that there needs to be meaningful advancement for the F2P demographic to keep the community healthy. The argument is whether that is currently the case. The rate at which characters come out, the cost of roster slots, the necessity of shields to achieve punching above your natural level in order to get close to the rewards that offer even the smallest amount of progression, the low odds on tokens and the other current issues all seem to indicate, fairly obviously to me, the answer is no. But only the devs will really have the data to know whether the game is healthy enough to sustain itself.

I'd say the answer is yes. There are games where certain cards or abilities are only available if you pay. This is not one of them. Every piece of content is available in this game.

The sub-question is if it's available at a reasonable rate. I would also say yes. I'm about a year in as a F2P player, and I've run out of things to do. A F2P game shouldn't run out of content after one year. I don't need a single cover in PVE or PVP right now. I'm sitting waiting until next week when Thor's blue should be available.

Everything needed for a F2P player is available to advance. Token rates are low, but when you acquire a lot of them, they eventually help you out. Yes, of course HP for shield hopping is necessary for top rewards. You can earn enough HP in events and in random drops to save up and shield hop every couple of events. That's how you target the covers you need more immediately. The biggest squeeze for F2P is probably the cost of roster slots. Make a strategic decision. You don't have to keep everyone. Skip a new character and use that 400hp to win an extra 3* cover for someone you need more. Iso is just a matter of how much time you put in the game.

I actually feel bad sometimes that there are people who have spent hundreds of dollars and whose rosters are still not developed. That's how much this game is NOT pay-to-win.

TCell

I don't normally post to the forums, but I did want to chime in to say it is possible to transition from 3* to 4* as a F2P; I'm doing it right now (on day 313). It's slow, it's a grind, but you can do it.

The first step is to have a solid 3* lineup, including a fast hopping tandem for the end of PvPs. The kamikaze team of Patch/Hulk (with AP boosts) is what I used, but I'm sure you can find other recommendations on the forums.

We all know shielding is expensive so pick one (or maybe two) 4*s you want to go for. Save your HP and only shield hop in the PvPs where they are the reward.

I chose to only push first for X-force, as I already had the daily reward covers, had gotten a couple lucky tokens draws and character rankings have him ranked #1. I now have him at 5/5/2 @ 221 - which is awesome! - and am now working toward building Goddess Thor and/or Fury.

I realize this method becomes harder the more 4*s are released, but it is possible...

lukewin

TCell wrote:

...I chose to only push first for X-force, as I already had the daily reward covers, had gotten a couple lucky tokens draws and character rankings have him ranked #1. I now have him at 5/5/2 @ 221 - which is awesome! - and am now working toward building Goddess Thor and/or Fury.

I realize this method becomes harder the more 4*s are released, but it is possible...

Nice post. Save your effort for Thor, not Fury. I have a 5/5/3 lvl 156 Fury, and he is too much of a healthpack suck / nondeterrent in PVP to be worth the effort.

Phaserhawk

The rough and hard facts are this.

You can't get into 3* status until you max out 6-8 of your 2*'s, you can't start making grabs for 4*'s until you have about 6 maxed out 3*'s.

I understand it's tough, I fortunately started the game early so there wasn't a whole lot of characters so you had a high rate of getting what you needed. In addition, PvP featured events had guarenteed 3* cover of the featured at 10x token pack. The biggest reason I got to where I am at though was the lightning rounds. Back then you could get a guarenteed 3* cover and it's how I snagged 90% of my Hood and C.Mags covers, and those 2 carried me a long, long way. I never had the fortune to Spidey lock everyone as I had a 5/0/5 Spidey forever, but I was able to go Patchneto on people and between those 2, Thor and Hood I was able to regularly snag top 25 and get my 1 3* cover and usually alliance got me a 2nd, I was happy. I didn't buy HP for covers until HE came. Whose that....Sentry. I got him to 3/5/5 and respeced Hood to 3/5/5 as well and I rode that gravy train to all but 3 of my Fury covers, all but 2 of my X-Force covers, and all but 3 of my IW covers. He got me where I needed to and quickly. Now, the Sentry of today is X-Force and 4hor, and sadly getting a 4* is much harder since as many said it's really hard with only 3*'s and that's because we essentially had a 4* in Sentry.

That all being said, getting to 1K now even without X-Force and 4hor is easier than getting to 1300 with Sentry bombing, unless you literally did one, shieleded, waited 15 mintues, and did another one over and over, the reason was Sentry was so fast you could not be unshielded very long. As quick as Thorverine is right now they paled in comparision to the speed of Sentry so you do have a little more time to get an extra match now than when Sentry ruled.. I would say I have a 25% chance of getting hit while trying to snag a 3rd win unshielded vs. a 50 to 60% chance of getting hit for a 3rd with Sentry.

But if you really, really want to get those 4* covers, it's going to cost you HP and ISO. You have to push till you start to get to that point where you lose as many points as you gain. You've hit the wall, shield and call it quits for a bit. Now with out of game communication people can tell you if a big point guy is unshielded and you can que him up. If you don't have outside communication, then you have to check in a bit more regularly and be prepared to spend 10 ISO as you surf a bit, eventually you can que up some good targets, but here is a good push schdule to follow.

1.)Try to time it so that you are going to bed after doing your big push usually about 24-30 hrs before end event, shield 8 hours. (150 HP)
2.)When you wake up, push and then shield 3hrs. (75 HP) (16-22 hrs left in event)
3.)You must use this shield to it's fullest, in the 3 hrs check the ques for high opponents Hit those opponents for everything you have, boost like crazy and shield for 8 hrs. (150) (13-19 hrs left)
4.)Give or take a few mintues before or after 5 hrs have elapsed, push again on those opponents you should have qued up (3hr shield 75 HP) (8-14 hrs left)
5.)Again have opponents qued and be ready right when that 3 hrs is up, push and shield 8hr 150 HP (5-11 hrs left)
6.) Now at this point you hopefully have 1000K and you timed it to where the 8 hr shield can take you all the way home at this point youv'e spent 600 HP, assuming you need one more push you do as before and hit that 3hr shield make sure you are only a few mintues before or after 5 hrs. have elapsed this hopefully is the last shield and you 've dropped 675 HP probably 3-5K ISO but you have a 4*

7*) Hopefully you don't need this step, but if you found yourself sitting at 960 points you need a final push, and you have 2 options, you can do both or one or the other. You can make another push and use that very expenseive 24 hr sheild, you've dropped 975HP but that's still a lot cheaper than 2500 HP for the cover. the other is you try to snipe those last few points in the final minutes, this is risky as someone else could already have you qued up and is going to be doing the same thing or as said you can do both.

The rest you'll have to figure out yourself, like which time slot works for you or when to make off time pushes, etc. but if you follow this rough guide I guarentee if you are willing to pay the HP and the ISO and you have some solid 3*'s to help you, you can do it.