No X-Force No Point

Unknown

daibar wrote:

For some reason I am seeing a lot of X-Force plus Moonstone lately. I guess she has active abilities in Red + Purple, and is a bit of a tank for a 2*, but really?

Everyone knows X-Force is the end-game, down to the beginning player.

Didn't you know that Moonstone stealing the Recovery countdown tile is a thing? If you bring Moonstone, you can steal it back.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I actually feel bad sometimes that there are people who have spent hundreds of dollars and whose rosters are still not developed. That's how much this game is NOT pay-to-win.

I haven't spent money on this game and there's really nothing I need. Unless you're just into the PvP shield hopping mechanism you don't need anything even without spending money let alone those who do. This is not a good model for sustainability. The problem is that if the game lacks sufficient motivation for P2W then where does the money come from? Are people supposed to spend money to not win?

slidecage

rednailz wrote:

SnowcaTT wrote:

I've been waiting for a chance to post this, and no greater point than this thread:



Even newbies understand 4* is the way to advance most quickly. With the slow rate of 4* covers available, this makes the game more P2W than ever.

That proves a couple points, one of them being some one decided to drop hundreds of dollars into a game at the beginning instead of playing it, which is kind of sad. That's like hiring someone in Korea to play your charecter in a MMO or RPG IMO

All that player needs is 1 of each cover for GT and a few hundred more dollars and they can retire.

i could see doing this last year but with major 4 stars coming this year i think it would be a major waste to do it. As soon as i was going to get 1 cover in each i was like , man POWER HIM UP AND KICK ****, but with them saying more 4 stars are coming a powered up x force could be a joke in 3 months and be a major waste of cash

HustyReaps

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

Wonko33

slidecage wrote:

i could see doing this last year but with major 4 stars coming this year i think it would be a major waste to do it. As soon as i was going to get 1 cover in each i was like , man POWER HIM UP AND KICK ****, but with them saying more 4 stars are coming a powered up x force could be a joke in 3 months and be a major waste of cash

3 months of placing high in PvP is not too much of a waste

morph3us

rooter wrote:

You need 4* characters to win any 4* awards at all. There is no transition from 3* to 4* without spending hundreds of dollars.

I think this is the crux of people's complaints, but I also believe that it's a fallacy. As previously posted by several people, 1K is achievable in PvP with a maxed 3* roster. It's not easy, and it's risky getting there, but the risk is part of the fun. I appreciate it's demoralising to try, and miss the 1K target - it's happened to me before too, but if it was a guaranteed objective, it'd lose a lot of the fun. You definitely don't need a 4* to win a 4*.

You also don't need to spend hundreds of dollars to transition from 3* to 4*. I do think the estimates of 400HP are very low, and probably only true for established 4* rosters. You're looking more at 700-1000HP to hit 1K, which is approximately $7 per cover, if you were buying the HP. Given that there are six 4*s now, though, you're only looking at hitting that 1K progression every six PvP events now, which gives you time to save up HP, so the actual cost is probably a lot lower.

Dauthi

HustyReaps wrote:

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

I think you are missing the point. If someone has a maxed X-Force or Lady Thor they have a huge advantage compared to any other 4*. The problem is balance, and X-Force is horribly imbalanced.

It's true, you can beat X-Force with max 3*s, but its not even close to as easy as beating any 3*, and anyone opting for the harder opponent is putting themselves at serious risk. It's unlikely the AI will pull off Lady Thor's combo, but if you are a weaker roster and X-Force gets black, you are probably dead. Because of this, if you have him you will be skipped over 3* teams giving you a buffer before you are attacked.

Opponent variety hasn't been this bad since Sentry. D3 needs to do something because when every team at 800 points+ includes X-Force, there is a problem with the character.

slidecage

Wonko33 wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i could see doing this last year but with major 4 stars coming this year i think it would be a major waste to do it. As soon as i was going to get 1 cover in each i was like , man POWER HIM UP AND KICK ****, but with them saying more 4 stars are coming a powered up x force could be a joke in 3 months and be a major waste of cash

3 months of placing high in PvP is not too much of a waste

i can find better stuff to do with 200 bucks then maxxing out a x force

HustyReaps

But that's how everything is. Somebody will always be stronger and harder to beat. I am on day 475 of MPQ and I don't have a single Goddess cover. Why? Because for about 6 months, I played on a very limited basis and was in an alliance with two people, which meant almost no chance at snagging a cover. Is that D3's fault because I wasn't able to score high enough to snag one, or was it my fault because I chose not to strengthen the rest of my team in the process so that I could grab some in the future? Do I deserve covers that I want just because I have played for 475 days? It's XForce that is very strong and desired now, but undercovered he is cake to beat. Be smart...play defense against black and green instead of trying to go on offense so quickly. My problem is hitting the LV 270 XForce and LV 270 Goddess teams. No chance, Jack! But...that's okay for now. I keep plugging away, earn what I can, and call it a day. Play, have fun, enjoy building your roster. Someday, grasshopper...you will have your glory day in the hot sun. "Now...go...go away. Read some books!"-Nacho Libre.

NorthernPolarity

Dauthi wrote:

HustyReaps wrote:

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

I think you are missing the point. If someone has a maxed X-Force or Lady Thor they have a huge advantage compared to any other 4*. The problem is balance, and X-Force is horribly imbalanced.

It's true, you can beat X-Force with max 3*s, but its not even close to as easy as beating any 3*, and anyone opting for the harder opponent is putting themselves at serious risk. It's unlikely the AI will pull off Lady Thor's combo, but if you are a weaker roster and X-Force gets black, you are probably dead. Because of this, if you have him you will be skipped over 3* teams giving you a buffer before you are attacked.

Opponent variety hasn't been this bad since Sentry. D3 needs to do something because when every team at 800 points+ includes X-Force, there is a problem with the character.

It doesn't mean that the character is insanely imbalanced: if you think about X-Force in the context of LadyThor, he's perfectly fine. The problem is that the other 4*s aren't up to snuff: buffing Fury / Elektra / IW is a much better proposition. That way, 4*s as a whole are more powerful, and then we'll only get complaints about the 3->4* transition being too difficult as opposed to X-Force / GT being OP.

HustyReaps

I agree, NoPo.

Dauthi

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

HustyReaps wrote:

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

I think you are missing the point. If someone has a maxed X-Force or Lady Thor they have a huge advantage compared to any other 4*. The problem is balance, and X-Force is horribly imbalanced.

It's true, you can beat X-Force with max 3*s, but its not even close to as easy as beating any 3*, and anyone opting for the harder opponent is putting themselves at serious risk. It's unlikely the AI will pull off Lady Thor's combo, but if you are a weaker roster and X-Force gets black, you are probably dead. Because of this, if you have him you will be skipped over 3* teams giving you a buffer before you are attacked.

Opponent variety hasn't been this bad since Sentry. D3 needs to do something because when every team at 800 points+ includes X-Force, there is a problem with the character.

It doesn't mean that the character is insanely imbalanced: if you think about X-Force in the context of LadyThor, he's perfectly fine.

What context is that? When a single ability (as in no need to rely on another skill to chain into it) can end a game, there is no comparison. His black does way too much for what it costs.

I would concede that Lady Thor's blue should be nerfed slightly, but I don't see her as a serious problem since she is slow to get started but can end the game (when controlled by a player) when she does. Her play style also involves risk, which should be considered when looking at how much damage she should do. X-Force has 0 risk. Here is an example of Lady Thor's risk that happened to me today:

The problem is that the other 4*s aren't up to snuff: buffing Fury / Elektra / IW is a much better proposition. That way, 4*s as a whole are more powerful, and then we'll only get complaints about the 3->4* transition being too difficult as opposed to X-Force / GT being OP.

Don't forget Devil Dino too, and how do you feel about Star Lord? Since he drops special tiles he wont synergize well with X-Force, so do you think anyone would choose him over X-Force? I think buffing the majority vs nerfing the minority is pretty unrealistic. IW obviously needs a buff regardless though, she is horribly underpowered.

Also, are you making an argument that 4*s abilities should be mechanically better than 3*s? I would absolutely disagree there, I think 100+ levels is a big enough bonus, no need to break the game too. I believe this is the developers opinion too when comparing 1*s, 2*s, and 3*s.

Unknown

The problem is dev team lack of " good" match programming and " long term" planing

X force is boring but we can't just simply ask those to give it up. He is siting at the top prize over a year and many vetern maxed him. Thats why we always see xforce.

The problem is a suck rewards structure ....you want a 4* and please P2W or have a 4* PVE grind? In 3 hrs refresh grinder can do so but in 8hrs refresh there is no gurantee. Dont forget there are 7 days event and every month come a new 4*. How difficult to get a useable 4* only in PVE? It is NONSENSE. For PVP do you X force or 4hor to climb 1000 rewards?

the game become richer is richer now. why? becuase everything limited to those already get top tiered. I found a funny thing in PVP that Max 4hor always come with Max lvX force, no exception, but some max X force can solo! Isnt it X force is more powerful? Sorry no, the reason is only those Max X force CAN max 4hor without limited by cover or ISO.

So how to catch up? Will ?

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

Also, are you making an argument that 4*s abilities should be mechanically better than 3*s? I would absolutely disagree there, I think 100+ levels is a big enough bonus, no need to break the game too. I believe this is the developers opinion too when comparing 1*s, 2*s, and 3*s.

I would argue in the other direction. 4*s are mechanically better. That's their charm. X-Force does an attack that deprives the enemy of their best color while collecting all of that AP. GT creates charged tiles and is the only character to do so. Elektra has an invisible attack tile, as well as complete damage negation. Fury lacks a unique mechanic, but has three abilities that are each multiple abilities in themselves. Devil Dino was meant as a joke, so I won't count him. Starlord does all that cost reduction stuff, and IW is the last 4* character made before they became powerful who has yet to be remade with a special special ability.

Unknown

i agree nerf xforce. Then nerf 4thor. Then nerf lazy thor, then black panther then lazy cap then keep going until they all suck and then when there is absolutely no reason to actually try to get any cover because they all suck, like IW, then just give them all out as free covers. That solves the transition impossibility. might as well just get rid of rarities as well, that solves the someone has something I don't so I will never be able to compete problem.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

HustyReaps wrote:

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

I think you are missing the point. If someone has a maxed X-Force or Lady Thor they have a huge advantage compared to any other 4*. The problem is balance, and X-Force is horribly imbalanced.

It's true, you can beat X-Force with max 3*s, but its not even close to as easy as beating any 3*, and anyone opting for the harder opponent is putting themselves at serious risk. It's unlikely the AI will pull off Lady Thor's combo, but if you are a weaker roster and X-Force gets black, you are probably dead. Because of this, if you have him you will be skipped over 3* teams giving you a buffer before you are attacked.

Opponent variety hasn't been this bad since Sentry. D3 needs to do something because when every team at 800 points+ includes X-Force, there is a problem with the character.

The point you say he is missing is "you have better covers so you have an advantage, this is a problem." Really? everyone at 800+ points is xforce plus others means he is one of the two best covers in the game...how dare the game mechanics set it up so better covers win!!!! how dare players use the best covers in the game, for the sake of diversity use weaker covers...interesting...if there wasn't a competitive structure that might occur but because it is....that's like telling any sports team to not play their star players for the sake of diversity...it gets boring seeing Jordan win every year.

Dauthi

Vertigozooropa wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Also, are you making an argument that 4*s abilities should be mechanically better than 3*s? I would absolutely disagree there, I think 100+ levels is a big enough bonus, no need to break the game too. I believe this is the developers opinion too when comparing 1*s, 2*s, and 3*s.

I would argue in the other direction. 4*s are mechanically better. That's their charm. X-Force does an attack that deprives the enemy of their best color while collecting all of that AP. GT creates charged tiles and is the only character to do so. Elektra has an invisible attack tile, as well as complete damage negation. Fury lacks a unique mechanic, but has three abilities that are each multiple abilities in themselves. Devil Dino was meant as a joke, so I won't count him. Starlord does all that cost reduction stuff, and IW is the last 4* character made before they became powerful who has yet to be remade with a special special ability.

Are you talking better/stronger or unique? I don't think X-Force is very unique, you can't staple multiple abilities onto one ability and call it new.

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

HustyReaps wrote:

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

I think you are missing the point. If someone has a maxed X-Force or Lady Thor they have a huge advantage compared to any other 4*. The problem is balance, and X-Force is horribly imbalanced.

It's true, you can beat X-Force with max 3*s, but its not even close to as easy as beating any 3*, and anyone opting for the harder opponent is putting themselves at serious risk. It's unlikely the AI will pull off Lady Thor's combo, but if you are a weaker roster and X-Force gets black, you are probably dead. Because of this, if you have him you will be skipped over 3* teams giving you a buffer before you are attacked.

Opponent variety hasn't been this bad since Sentry. D3 needs to do something because when every team at 800 points+ includes X-Force, there is a problem with the character.

The point you say he is missing is "you have better covers so you have an advantage, this is a problem." Really? everyone at 800+ points is xforce plus others means he is one of the two best covers in the game...how dare the game mechanics set it up so better covers win!!!! how dare players use the best covers in the game, for the sake of diversity use weaker covers...interesting...if there wasn't a competitive structure that might occur but because it is....that's like telling any sports team to not play their star players for the sake of diversity...it gets boring seeing Jordan win every year.

By this logic nobody should ever be nerfed. What we are arguing here is the line that should be drawn when a character makes others completely obsolete. These are the things developers think about when nerfing/buffing/creating characters.

If not nerfing character's is your perspective, I can tell you for a fact that it is not the perspective of the developers, or likely any game. Balance is important.

Unknown

No,no,no you guys are wrong. I think the problem with most of you is that you get 600+ points and don't shield. You guys have to shield hop and be quick about it that's how I earned my x-force in the first place shield hopping, I think that's what's going on with some of you is that you want to get that 4* with out any effort or shields and it's just impossible. Players with x-force and shora still get attacked but the only difference is that we shield and don't lose points so it is easier for us to get the 4* progression reward. In my alliance there is a guy with out a single fully covered 4* and he has been getting then 1k reward for the last 3 pvps already so I see no excuse why others can't. You guys area what is making the game suck.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

Vertigozooropa wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Also, are you making an argument that 4*s abilities should be mechanically better than 3*s? I would absolutely disagree there, I think 100+ levels is a big enough bonus, no need to break the game too. I believe this is the developers opinion too when comparing 1*s, 2*s, and 3*s.

I would argue in the other direction. 4*s are mechanically better. That's their charm. X-Force does an attack that deprives the enemy of their best color while collecting all of that AP. GT creates charged tiles and is the only character to do so. Elektra has an invisible attack tile, as well as complete damage negation. Fury lacks a unique mechanic, but has three abilities that are each multiple abilities in themselves. Devil Dino was meant as a joke, so I won't count him. Starlord does all that cost reduction stuff, and IW is the last 4* character made before they became powerful who has yet to be remade with a special special ability.

Are you talking better/stronger or unique? I don't think X-Force is very unique, you can't staple multiple abilities onto one ability and call it new.

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

HustyReaps wrote:

It drives me crazy at how some people can find simply anything to complain about. There are ways to succeed in this game without paying...just ask all the guys with weak rosters who grind PVE like mad and end up with top tier covers. Why should you be entitled to everything that everyone else has? Life isn't fair. MPQ isn't either. In both, you need some motivation, commitment, and a little luck. Stop whining if you don't have an XForce, a Goddess, or a 60 inch plasma screen. Get off your duff, work hard, and stop blaming others for your shortcomings. Unbelievable that there was a reference to blaming Republicans and that only the rich get richer. What a load of ****. If you can't handle the workings of the game, go find one that freely hands out sparkly new gifts without needing to work for it. The rest of us will continue to enjoy this game and understand that we will always be chasing the top dogs, knowing that someday we will have a stronger roster and be more competitive.

I think you are missing the point. If someone has a maxed X-Force or Lady Thor they have a huge advantage compared to any other 4*. The problem is balance, and X-Force is horribly imbalanced.

It's true, you can beat X-Force with max 3*s, but its not even close to as easy as beating any 3*, and anyone opting for the harder opponent is putting themselves at serious risk. It's unlikely the AI will pull off Lady Thor's combo, but if you are a weaker roster and X-Force gets black, you are probably dead. Because of this, if you have him you will be skipped over 3* teams giving you a buffer before you are attacked.

Opponent variety hasn't been this bad since Sentry. D3 needs to do something because when every team at 800 points+ includes X-Force, there is a problem with the character.

The point you say he is missing is "you have better covers so you have an advantage, this is a problem." Really? everyone at 800+ points is xforce plus others means he is one of the two best covers in the game...how dare the game mechanics set it up so better covers win!!!! how dare players use the best covers in the game, for the sake of diversity use weaker covers...interesting...if there wasn't a competitive structure that might occur but because it is....that's like telling any sports team to not play their star players for the sake of diversity...it gets boring seeing Jordan win every year.

By this logic nobody should ever be nerfed. What we are arguing here is the line that should be drawn when a character makes others completely obsolete. These are the things developers think about when nerfing/buffing/creating characters.

If not nerfing character's is your perspective, I can tell you for a fact that it is not the perspective of the developers, or likely any game. Balance is important.

And by your logic no cover should be better than another...because if one actually is, everyone will use that cover and you will see exactly what you see now in pvp. Nothing will change except the name of the cover. I don't understand why people fail to see this. Even if this cover is ever so slightly better than another and "more balanced" you won't see any diversity, and that cover will render all others "obsolete" in pvp because why would competitive players use inferior covers...even if it's ever so slightly inferior? Competitive players want to win. Nerf all the 4stars to 3 star level, won't matter, then the top players will just find the best 3 star and use those to dominate because they spend money on shields and other players don't or won't spend to the degree they do. Once again, the rankings will look no different at all, the only thing all the complainers accomplished was devaluing the very covers they are trying to win...brilliant.

You can have the last word on me on this, it's getting tiresome for me, I'm going to go use my overpowered xforce/hood and shield hop to a top 5 finish.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

scottee wrote:

I actually feel bad sometimes that there are people who have spent hundreds of dollars and whose rosters are still not developed. That's how much this game is NOT pay-to-win.

I haven't spent money on this game and there's really nothing I need. Unless you're just into the PvP shield hopping mechanism you don't need anything even without spending money let alone those who do. This is not a good model for sustainability. The problem is that if the game lacks sufficient motivation for P2W then where does the money come from? Are people supposed to spend money to not win?

I continue to be more than a little puzzled (no pun intended) as to how this game is monetized. Rather than micro-transactions, they seem to depend on whales dropping tons of money on packs and maxing out whatever the overpowered new character is. I spent some money way back in the day, but it was for roster slots and a couple of select covers to max out my first 3*s when I was transitioning (which was way easier at the time).

Having taken some time off, and there being some new characters that I missed, I wouldn't mind dropping some money to catch up a bit. The problem for me is there's no real way to do that. I could spend $20 on a 10-Pack, but at about 1/6 chance of even getting a 3* or 4* per drop, and about half of those in packs being ones I don't need, that's not really a good gamble. It's essentially the same problem for the transitioning player, because what's that $20 buying me? A big gamble that I'm getting something that's going to help me and a really good chance at nothing but 2*s to sell, which means what I really did was buy Iso at a rate ever worse than the actual rate for buying Iso, which is universally mocked as a total waste of money.

So why provide such a bad value? Why depend on whales and gamblers? Why not lower the price and raise the drop rate on packs, make them way more accessible to the vast majority of players who are trying to build their rosters and get more competitive? This game has become even more about the haves and the have-nots, and it seems like there are better ways to make money and grow a playerbase than what they're doing now. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.