Character rankings 12/14 edition: the results!

NorthernPolarity

squirrel1120 wrote:

I'm still a 'transitioner', as I'm not fighting with even a single maxed 3* character. I have several cover maxed at the moment, but I'd like to bring several up together, or all at once, and honestly some of the cover maxed characters aren't work putting iso into further (ie., mostorm 110, spidey 94)

From this perspective, I've had most of the characters in the discussion covered approximately the same (BP, patch, hulk, sentry) until recently when I finished patch in the xmas pve.

Before his nerfbat run in, Sentry saw a small bit of use. Regardless of his damage output, he harmed the team too much, unless you max boosted to shorten the match just like the classic shield hop, he'd actually be dead half the time before his tiles resolved. It was iffy at best, but it could get me through a normal or hard pve node if I was out of other options.

BP *still* only has 2 black covers, and given the option, I'd pick him over sentry any day of the week even shorter on covers or levels. Without the self damage, the biggest negative was feeding them 5ap, and that's inconsequential if you use it as a finisher, or know you'll down the character with the strongest color and it has not duplicate users on the ai side.

On hitting above your weight class... the patch/hulk combo, assuming you have that option, is far superior to sentry. Sometimes you'll only get 1 node out of hulk. High risk for sure, cause as stated, if the ai gets a decent cascade along the line, and hulk goes down, you are pretty much borked. However, if things go right, you can often get 2-3 matches out of hulk. Since you are using a loaner each round with patch, that makes the strategy WAY more sustainable than trying to hit above your weight with the likes of sentry.

Undoubtedly, sentry is a better deterrent on defense... I know I think a second longer when I see him on the odd occasion. Still, there isn't much chance I'm going to sink iso into him now that he's been left behind (stopped the moment I saw the nerf) just to be a scarecrow.

Hitting above your weight in the current meta is actually not very likely to net you 2 3* covers either. As I mentioned, I feel the hulk/patch combo sustains longer, and I've topped out at about 750ish. I think in that particular event, I still didn't get 2 covers. Especially with the new shielding changes, I think a sentry user would have that much harder a row to hoe, so to speak.

Sentry isn't completely useless if you already have him leveled for some reason from some reports, but I really don't think it's worth it from the pov of a transitioner.

Honestly it seems like you've already completed the transition! I definitely agree that the Patch / Hulk, and BP combo is better than relying on Sentry, but all those characters you described are already top tier transition characters. My original point was that Sentry is one of the better guys you can transition with if your main bottleneck is covers and you have no top tier options available. Your situation seems like you already transitioned and your main bottleneck is iso, at which point this means you've completed the transition, and Sentry has definitely outlived his usefulness.

squirrel1120

It seems like you had more of the situation that Polarity is specifically referring to raisinbman. In that regard, perhaps I just wasn't very good with sentry, or perhaps my refusal to boost him poisoned me against his effectiveness. I said what I did... because it'd been my personal experience with Sentry. Without boosting, I'd very often lose before getting his 'game over' powers off... and again that was pre nerf-bat.

So in your experiences raisinbman, would you say that if someone suddenly found themselves in, just for arguments sake, a sentry with 3/5/2 covers that they drop the iso on them to bring them to 127? Lets assume for arguments sake that the character is the only one available to bring a 2* player into the transition (because, unlike the common perception, the transition doesn't actually start until you have a strong 2* roster AND a few characters that are able to join them from the 3* ranks).

*Perhaps* it would let someone do a little better interim, (I'm just not convinced of that given my own experience with the character), but it just feels like an aweful lot of iso for a short term measure. I would personally advise someone against putting all those resources into him, just the same way I'd advise them against dropping the same amount of ISO that would require on 500-per-pop 1* lottery tickets on the chance of getting something useful. It may help you for a little while, but this is one of those points where it feels like exhibiting patience is much better in the long run.

Also, as an aside, NP, your opinion carries a lot of weight with me. Your guides and comments have helped tremendously in getting my progress in the game to where it is. Honestly, thanks for all of that. I really just wanted to try to add some information from the pov of someone who has been through the blender we call the transition.

NorthernPolarity

squirrel1120 wrote:

It seems like you had more of the situation that Polarity is specifically referring to raisinbman. In that regard, perhaps I just wasn't very good with sentry, or perhaps my refusal to boost him poisoned me against his effectiveness. I said what I did... because it'd been my personal experience with Sentry. Without boosting, I'd very often lose before getting his 'game over' powers off... and again that was pre nerf-bat.

So in your experiences raisinbman, would you say that if someone suddenly found themselves in, just for arguments sake, a sentry with 3/5/2 covers that they drop the iso on them to bring them to 127? Lets assume for arguments sake that the character is the only one available to bring a 2* player into the transition (because, unlike the common perception, the transition doesn't actually start until you have a strong 2* roster AND a few characters that are able to join them from the 3* ranks).

*Perhaps* it would let someone do a little better interim, (I'm just not convinced of that given my own experience with the character), but it just feels like an aweful lot of iso for a short term measure. I would personally advise someone against putting all those resources into him, just the same way I'd advise them against dropping the same amount of ISO that would require on 500-per-pop 1* lottery tickets on the chance of getting something useful. It may help you for a little while, but this is one of those points where it feels like exhibiting patience is much better in the long run.

Also, as an aside, NP, your opinion carries a lot of weight with me. Your guides and comments have helped tremendously in getting my progress in the game to where it is. Honestly, thanks for all of that. I really just wanted to try to add some information from the pov of someone who has been through the blender we call the transition.

No worries, your comments were definitely really helpful as well - Sentry definitely falls off quickly once you have another combo. Honestly my theory is just based off of the hypothesis that Supernova = RotP, and sacrifice = battleplan. I think a 5/2/3 Sentry or something would better fit the scenario I envisioned (especially cause red Sentry is given out as a free cover in prodigal son). Not actually sure if it works in practice, but it should be better than most alternative options.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

squirrel1120 wrote:

It seems like you had more of the situation that Polarity is specifically referring to raisinbman. In that regard, perhaps I just wasn't very good with sentry, or perhaps my refusal to boost him poisoned me against his effectiveness. I said what I did... because it'd been my personal experience with Sentry. Without boosting, I'd very often lose before getting his 'game over' powers off... and again that was pre nerf-bat.

So in your experiences raisinbman, would you say that if someone suddenly found themselves in, just for arguments sake, a sentry with 3/5/2 covers that they drop the iso on them to bring them to 127? Lets assume for arguments sake that the character is the only one available to bring a 2* player into the transition (because, unlike the common perception, the transition doesn't actually start until you have a strong 2* roster AND a few characters that are able to join them from the 3* ranks).

*Perhaps* it would let someone do a little better interim, (I'm just not convinced of that given my own experience with the character), but it just feels like an aweful lot of iso for a short term measure. I would personally advise someone against putting all those resources into him, just the same way I'd advise them against dropping the same amount of ISO that would require on 500-per-pop 1* lottery tickets on the chance of getting something useful. It may help you for a little while, but this is one of those points where it feels like exhibiting patience is much better in the long run.

Also, as an aside, NP, your opinion carries a lot of weight with me. Your guides and comments have helped tremendously in getting my progress in the game to where it is. Honestly, thanks for all of that. I really just wanted to try to add some information from the pov of someone who has been through the blender we call the transition.

No worries, your comments were definitely really helpful as well - Sentry definitely falls off quickly once you have another combo. Honestly my theory is just based off of the hypothesis that Supernova = RotP, and sacrifice = battleplan. I think a 5/2/3 Sentry or something would better fit the scenario I envisioned (especially cause red Sentry is given out as a free cover in prodigal son). Not actually sure if it works in practice, but it should be better than most alternative options.

This is actually a real dilemma I'm facing.

Ideally, I'd skip sentry to use a "good combo", but due to the vaulting of characters that can make good combos (laken, Lthor, BP). I'm stuck with covered heroes like the following.

1/4/2 mystique
3/3/2 blade
1/2/2 R&G
1/3/1 she-hulk
3/1/1 hulk
3/0/0 sentry
1/2/2 patch
1/2/1 hood
1/0/2 deadpool
2/1/1 gamora
2/1/1 luke cage
3/0/0 nick fury

With no 5 covered useful skill on the horizon, I'm stuck slogging 7 days for pve covers, real life obligations during a few end times will throw a wrench into any hopes of placing well.
PVP T100 is sometimes doable with 2*thor+OBW or 2*wolv+daken with a shield at the end. But when a useful cover of a top tier is up for grabs, the odds are not good.

With no guarantees of useful covers on the horizon, sentry becomes a real consideration, just because I know the reds will at least be guaranteed in prodigal sons. Waiting for 2 months is better than 3-infinity months.

My options are to be spending iso on sentry, ares (maybe easier top100?), or standard tokens to hopefully luck out on more patches or something.

I've just been opening up a bunch of tokens, and been getting some covers like patch and mystique.
I might be better off saving iso in the long run, I might not. My logic for tokening is, if grinding is not fun, why play the game at all? Because at least being able to mystique+mags is fun, unlike grinding for months with no guarantees.

edit: buying standard tokens also allowed me to get a wide distribution of 1 cover characters to get pve essentials. I will probably start saving iso to pump sentry, if I don't have any playables, and reach 4th red cover.

Unknown

squirrel1120 wrote:

It seems like you had more of the situation that Polarity is specifically referring to raisinbman. In that regard, perhaps I just wasn't very good with sentry, or perhaps my refusal to boost him poisoned me against his effectiveness. I said what I did... because it'd been my personal experience with Sentry. Without boosting, I'd very often lose before getting his 'game over' powers off... and again that was pre nerf-bat.

So in your experiences raisinbman, would you say that if someone suddenly found themselves in, just for arguments sake, a sentry with 3/5/2 covers that they drop the iso on them to bring them to 127? Lets assume for arguments sake that the character is the only one available to bring a 2* player into the transition (because, unlike the common perception, the transition doesn't actually start until you have a strong 2* roster AND a few characters that are able to join them from the 3* ranks).

*Perhaps* it would let someone do a little better interim, (I'm just not convinced of that given my own experience with the character), but it just feels like an aweful lot of iso for a short term measure. I would personally advise someone against putting all those resources into him, just the same way I'd advise them against dropping the same amount of ISO that would require on 500-per-pop 1* lottery tickets on the chance of getting something useful. It may help you for a little while, but this is one of those points where it feels like exhibiting patience is much better in the long run.

Also, as an aside, NP, your opinion carries a lot of weight with me. Your guides and comments have helped tremendously in getting my progress in the game to where it is. Honestly, thanks for all of that. I really just wanted to try to add some information from the pov of someone who has been through the blender we call the transition.

Well, I won't lie - my Sentry was covered pretty decently(don't remember exactly, at least 3/3/3). I did use boosts, but didn't have to(unless the enemy was really deadly) - World Rupture into Sacrifice(optional Hood ) would kill nearly everything. I got him to 114 then the changes hit.

I agree with you that Sentry is useless now. I've said it before but: his green is too horrible to make him worth using, it needs to be reworked/rescaled/something. Yellow is still good, red is too conditional.

If I had to recommend characters to transition players, it'd probably be good-ranking PVE characters since they're not gonna make a dent in PVP anyway. Daken/Cap/Falcon/MagStorm.


----

Kriegerbot wrote:

Words

Don't buy standard tokens. Just bide your time with Magstique and MagStorm. PVP progress is a big hill to climb.

Depending on your bracket, you should be able to top 100 with 2* characters. Not always(don't I know it).

ronin_san

Do you think this new ability "helps" doom's ranking and visibility in pvp, or does the fact the traps only pop for damage when you play late game hurt burst dmg/ quick fight games?

Unknown

ronin-san wrote:

Do you think this new ability "helps" doom's ranking and visibility in pvp, or does the fact the traps only pop for damage when you play late game hurt burst dmg/ quick fight games?

I think Doom will get a huge bump in the March edition of these rankings.

His combo with Patch is incredible.

For those who don't know yet, Patch's berserker's rage cannot overwrite friendly Dr Doom traps.

So, if you fill up the purple tiles with Doom's trap tiles, you can cast Patch's green and they'll get, if not 0 strike tiles, significantly fewer tiles.

ronin_san

onimus wrote:

ronin-san wrote:

Do you think this new ability "helps" doom's ranking and visibility in pvp, or does the fact the traps only pop for damage when you play late game hurt burst dmg/ quick fight games?

I think Doom will get a huge bump in the March edition of these rankings.

His combo with Patch is incredible.

For those who don't know yet, Patch's berserker's rage cannot overwrite friendly Dr Doom traps.

So, if you fill up the purple tiles with Doom's trap tiles, you can cast Patch's green and they'll get, if not 0 strike tiles, significantly fewer tiles.

The manner in which you acrue the 10 purple means lucky cascades or Doom taking dmg. And because he does nominal damage unless you wait until late game, I am on the fence.

That said, I speak from one cover in purple. It does 390+390 per trap. I will reserve judgment for when I have at least 3 purples. For now, I am unsure who I prefer with Patch: Doom or Daredevil.

Unknown

First of all thank you for taking the time to make these lists!
If possible, for us new players, would it be possible to include the suggested build of characters you have done before when you make a new list?

vudu3

Raist818 wrote:

If possible, for us new players, would it be possible to include the suggested build of characters you have done before when you make a new list?

Check the October Rankings. All previous characters has best build posted. They haven't changed since then unless Mischief Maker commented on best build in the December edition.

Unknown

Interesting discussion on Sentry, kind of want to chime in.

I think he's still overrated.

Just as a 'where I am' in game - Xforce is covered at 177, with Sentry/Hood/Punisher/Thor/Patch at 166 with Hulk perpetually at 154, and a bunch of others like Daken/cMags/Doom in the mid 100s, so I'm at the point where while I won't fight 2 4* teams, I can pretty much rumble whenever.

There are stages to PvP, climbing being the largest one, and bombing being the expensive one. In PvP, you want to be quick, it doesn't seem as important as before with the current shield rules, but it still stands - quick and efficient kills do you good. When climbing, true healing is a god send. Sentry has a mass of health, (though lower now), and regens SLOW, with NO self heal, and attacks that really dent his health, which means consuming health packs like tic tacs. Not suitable for climbing. For bombing, where he used to shine, he still swallos those health packs and requires boosting, but boosting doesn't garuntee ANYTHING, Supernova hits hard (and requires more matches), but it is hardly fatal on the upper end of 3*, let alone 4*. The end result, getting your jollies off before she's finished.

Compare that to Hulk, usable in PvE, usable during climbing with PvP thanks to heal speed and health, AND when it comes to bombing, as others have mentioned, he can be very effective, helping to set up end-game quickly, but also RELIABLY...he doesn't get off and go home, he stays there and supports the whole fight.

On top of it all, wnot HAVING to use health packs is a huge plus. Sentry ALWAYS needs a HP, Hulk with a 3 hour shield will be ready to fight.

I mean honestly, Sentry is good for winning you 'one' fight, and then retiring.

As someone transitioning, putting money into Sentry would be a fools errand. You are better off saving ISO for someone more useful and less niche. I'd take Psylocke and IM40 (BARELY) over Sentry if I had to do it all over again. Heck, glancing at my roster...before Sentry, I'd level/save ISO for...
Hood, Punisher, LThor, Patch, Hulk, Daken, Doom, cMags, Falcon, Blade, BP, Psylocke, Daredevil, BW, CapA, DP, RnG, Mystique, ALL before Sentry, leveling him only over 'bad' 3* like Doc Oc/Beast and more 'niche' 3* like CapM, colossus, & Spiderman.
-Unreall

Vhailorx

ronin-san wrote:

The manner in which you acrue the 10 purple means lucky cascades or Doom taking dmg. And because he does nominal damage unless you wait until late game, I am on the fence.

That said, I speak from one cover in purple. It does 390+390 per trap. I will reserve judgment for when I have at least 3 purples. For now, I am unsure who I prefer with Patch: Doom or Daredevil.

Doom will certainly take some damage collecting purple, but that doesn't mean he is useless at all.

The doom/patch combo thing is awesome, beserker rage with no enemy strike tiles would basically be the best power in 3* land (3 matches for 1200 extra damage to every match/ability!) and that is quite possible now with doom. And unlike Loki or any of the other "remove enemy special tile" powers, it doesn't require any extra ap collection.

and for any team where doom is covered, diabolical plot at max level will basically let you drop any one enemy at the end of any match. I don't know that Doom is quite top tier now, but he is definitely up with Hulk, Torch, Captain Marvel level 3*s.

CrookedKnight

Yeah, there's a reason Patch/Loki was good for PvE even when Loki was terrible; the Doom combo isn't quite as devastating since there are no huge protect tiles, but it requires no extra AP, which makes it much, much faster. Plus it's defense-friendly - unless the board is really rich in purple or the AI uses BR very early the traps are likely to block at least a few strike tiles, and if the opposing player stretches things out by denying green, then there might not be any untrapped purple left when your guys get that third match.

Unknown

My problem with Patch/Loki had a huge glaring weakness - Loki, super low health with a black power that took WAY too long to save up for. When I have Patch, I'd much rather double up my green or focus on my reds, then worry about blacks, and Loki's health was low enough that he could get eaten up by AoEs and/or collecting black unless covered by say Doom or a higher level Daken. It was a long game strategy that could see Loki die before you got your jolies off - when the name of the game is kill FAST and efficiently, so you can do it again.

Patch/Doom is real close to that - though through different means. Doom has way more health than Loki - so he won't randomly die. But while no one 'goes' for purple (few exceptions), it is still a 'long game' strategy. Unless you are blessed with a board that has only a few purples on it, it's going to be a while before you get to fire off off the good stuff, and while PAtch will regen any damage he takes, you are increasing the chance of cascades either giving your opponenet something dangerous, or putting fresh purples on the board. On top of that, face facts - shake-up is part of the game at the higher end of things - whether it is XForce just tearing up or SSing the board, or LThor filling the stage with greens, that will make a lot of your patience 'for naught' doing the Patch/Doom strategy.

I'm not saying neither strategy works, I just question whether it is TRUE synergy and more 'decent strategy'. Daken/Blade is synergy. X-Force/CMags is synergy. Stormneto is synergy.

Patch/doom is no different to me than Patch/Falcon. It works, they help each other a bit, but the sum of the parts aren't better than the parts.
- Unreall

ronin_san

Vhailorx wrote:

ronin-san wrote:

The manner in which you acrue the 10 purple means lucky cascades or Doom taking dmg. And because he does nominal damage unless you wait until late game, I am on the fence.

That said, I speak from one cover in purple. It does 390+390 per trap. I will reserve judgment for when I have at least 3 purples. For now, I am unsure who I prefer with Patch: Doom or Daredevil.

Doom will certainly take some damage collecting purple, but that doesn't mean he is useless at all.

The doom/patch combo thing is awesome, beserker rage with no enemy strike tiles would basically be the best power in 3* land (3 matches for 1200 extra damage to every match/ability!) and that is quite possible now with doom. And unlike Loki or any of the other "remove enemy special tile" powers, it doesn't require any extra ap collection.

and for any team where doom is covered, diabolical plot at max level will basically let you drop any one enemy at the end of any match. I don't know that Doom is quite top tier now, but he is definitely up with Hulk, Torch, Captain Marvel level 3*s.

I made that assumption based on having one cover in his Diabolical Plot. Having 2 now, and using him when buffed; diabolical doing 700+700 per trap, he's totally worth it. He's totes cray when maxed. You can just knock off someone at 10 purple, because you can easily accrue that in the time it takes to get corresponding traps generated.

~say that means 6 turns, maaaybe. Even with matching purples and the occasional cascade that pops a trap, you've still gotten 5k worth of dmg. If the game goes into the teens (of turns, obviously not preferable), then you can drop 10k without a sweat.

Unknown

I love that Original Black Widow is the highest ranked 2*. It's gotta be because there are better versions of Thor, Storm, Magneto and Daken than their 2* versions.

Arondite

Shortfatsteve wrote:

I love that Original Black Widow is the highest ranked 2*. It's gotta be because there are better versions of Thor, Storm, Magneto and Daken than their 2* versions.

It could also be that she's simply the best 2 star.

Unknown

Arondite wrote:

Shortfatsteve wrote:

I love that Original Black Widow is the highest ranked 2*. It's gotta be because there are better versions of Thor, Storm, Magneto and Daken than their 2* versions.

It could also be that she's simply the best 2 star.

I tend to think OBW is the best two star. If she had more health, she could almost be a 3-star with no change to her powers. The others you named are good 2-stars, but I think OBW gets the edge because her passive is so sneaky-good, and her other powers are relatively cheap/quick fire. On most boards, she can steal the entire first 3-4 rounds of AP from the other team. Great head start when it works.

Unknown

Storm and OBW are the only 2 stars that I still use on occasion in PVE.

Every other 2 star is just worthless once you're out of 2 star land.
Especially Thor and Daken, who have exact copies in the 3 star world.

Magneto is good to use as a team up to hand out to people, but he's a dead space on a team. Just get a 5 purple level 15 magneto and distribute him to your alliance. Other than that, he's completely worthless once you're using a 3 star roster.

over_clocked

I still use Ares especially when buffed, but if not, perfectly good for clearing trivial nodes with Daken (either) and Falcon or Psylocke. When buffed, he beats quite a few 3*s. (Said this so many times.)
MMN rules. He fuels many strong combos: with Nick Fury (true story), 4or (even truer story), Mystique (you gotta see it to believe it). His value has risen significantly after Spider-Man's nerf.
Wolverine, Thor and Cap, while nothing spectacular for vets, are indispensable in Heroic events. I do like to bring Miss Marvel for Team-Up action or mHawkeye for Speed Shot action (which 3 of 2*s can reliably trigger: Marvel, MMN and Thor).
As for Moonstone, Bag-Man and Bullseye, they suck indeed.