NorthernPolarity wrote: Phantron wrote: Sentry plays a lot like Thor (4*) where he is most effective if you're playing to lose, which is always true on defense as well. Like Power Surge, Supernova tends to be an equalizer move that tilts the state of the game toward neutral, which is great when you're losing but not very good when you're winning. In the absence of boosts it is quite likely a transition player is playing quite a number of games from a losing position, but it is also quite awkward when you've successfully knocked out 2 guys and have 11 red AP and realize using a Supernova is only going to set you back a lot, but you don't have anything else available and you're not sure if something else can go wrong by the time you got something else ready. If you're playing Sentry / Daken / Loaner, what else are you going to use to knock out the two other guys? If you're playing a somewhat standard PvP 500ish point 3* wall of 6800 HP characters, world rupture / sacrifice / chemical reaction isn't going to be enough to down the enemy team by the time you get supernova out. I would imagine that with that team comp, you 2* your way up to 400, and then supernova the enemy team down as your main strategy.
Phantron wrote: Sentry plays a lot like Thor (4*) where he is most effective if you're playing to lose, which is always true on defense as well. Like Power Surge, Supernova tends to be an equalizer move that tilts the state of the game toward neutral, which is great when you're losing but not very good when you're winning. In the absence of boosts it is quite likely a transition player is playing quite a number of games from a losing position, but it is also quite awkward when you've successfully knocked out 2 guys and have 11 red AP and realize using a Supernova is only going to set you back a lot, but you don't have anything else available and you're not sure if something else can go wrong by the time you got something else ready.
Phantron wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: Phantron wrote: Sentry plays a lot like Thor (4*) where he is most effective if you're playing to lose, which is always true on defense as well. Like Power Surge, Supernova tends to be an equalizer move that tilts the state of the game toward neutral, which is great when you're losing but not very good when you're winning. In the absence of boosts it is quite likely a transition player is playing quite a number of games from a losing position, but it is also quite awkward when you've successfully knocked out 2 guys and have 11 red AP and realize using a Supernova is only going to set you back a lot, but you don't have anything else available and you're not sure if something else can go wrong by the time you got something else ready. If you're playing Sentry / Daken / Loaner, what else are you going to use to knock out the two other guys? If you're playing a somewhat standard PvP 500ish point 3* wall of 6800 HP characters, world rupture / sacrifice / chemical reaction isn't going to be enough to down the enemy team by the time you get supernova out. I would imagine that with that team comp, you 2* your way up to 400, and then supernova the enemy team down as your main strategy. Well, if you setup your team it is pretty much Supernova or bust so that does get around the usual problem of having Supernova available at an awkward time because the rest of your team managed to do something useful.
locked wrote: Nope, I'm starting to have a feeling that new Sentry is awful for transitioners as well. Most of them can't afford to splurge on shielding or HP boosts, and without that, using Sentry as a core character is VERY problematic. I know I try not to use any of his skills in his LRs if I bother playing those at all. oBW and A.Wolverine were very helpful for my transition, perhaps because oBW could heal then and Wolvie had great passive healing. For punching above their weight, cStorm/MMN suffice well enough not to mention how reliable they are compared to Sentry. Did I say that I failed to beat a non-deadly PvE node with Sentry/Falcon/3* Daken? Because I did. Got World Rupture and Sacrifice out alright, 2 Sacs even, but then it all fell apart before WR had a chance to tick down to 2 turns at least.
NorthernPolarity wrote: locked wrote: Nope, I'm starting to have a feeling that new Sentry is awful for transitioners as well. Most of them can't afford to splurge on shielding or HP boosts, and without that, using Sentry as a core character is VERY problematic. I know I try not to use any of his skills in his LRs if I bother playing those at all. oBW and A.Wolverine were very helpful for my transition, perhaps because oBW could heal then and Wolvie had great passive healing. For punching above their weight, cStorm/MMN suffice well enough not to mention how reliable they are compared to Sentry. Did I say that I failed to beat a non-deadly PvE node with Sentry/Falcon/3* Daken? Because I did. Got World Rupture and Sacrifice out alright, 2 Sacs even, but then it all fell apart before WR had a chance to tick down to 2 turns at least. Well the main advantage that Sentry has over MNM / C. Storm is that people will hesitate significantly more before retaliating against a Sentry based composition. I mean, this should be seen somewhat easily by comparing Sentry to BP. Supernova is a RotP that deals 1k to your own team. Sacrifice is a battleplan that deals 1.7k to Sentry. Yeah, These two skills are obviously worse than BP's counterparts, but the fact that BP is a top tier character for transitioners and Sentry's abilities are almost carbon copies of BP's in terms of power level means that he can't be completely awful for a transitioner. The main thing here is that you don't need sustainability if you use a 2* team up to 400, and then use your Sentry team to push higher at the end. The self damage is worth it if you can get say 6-8 good matches up to 750 or 800, which should easily be doable on 5 health packs in the sentry / daken / loaner comp where you're only health packing sentry.
onimus wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: locked wrote: Nope, I'm starting to have a feeling that new Sentry is awful for transitioners as well. Most of them can't afford to splurge on shielding or HP boosts, and without that, using Sentry as a core character is VERY problematic. I know I try not to use any of his skills in his LRs if I bother playing those at all. oBW and A.Wolverine were very helpful for my transition, perhaps because oBW could heal then and Wolvie had great passive healing. For punching above their weight, cStorm/MMN suffice well enough not to mention how reliable they are compared to Sentry. Did I say that I failed to beat a non-deadly PvE node with Sentry/Falcon/3* Daken? Because I did. Got World Rupture and Sacrifice out alright, 2 Sacs even, but then it all fell apart before WR had a chance to tick down to 2 turns at least. Well the main advantage that Sentry has over MNM / C. Storm is that people will hesitate significantly more before retaliating against a Sentry based composition. I mean, this should be seen somewhat easily by comparing Sentry to BP. Supernova is a RotP that deals 1k to your own team. Sacrifice is a battleplan that deals 1.7k to Sentry. Yeah, These two skills are obviously worse than BP's counterparts, but the fact that BP is a top tier character for transitioners and Sentry's abilities are almost carbon copies of BP's in terms of power level means that he can't be completely awful for a transitioner. The main thing here is that you don't need sustainability if you use a 2* team up to 400, and then use your Sentry team to push higher at the end. The self damage is worth it if you can get say 6-8 good matches up to 750 or 800, which should easily be doable on 5 health packs in the sentry / daken / loaner comp where you're only health packing sentry. The only people who hesitate to retaliate Sentry are the ones going through PTSD from when he was good. He's just a big, fluffy hp wall. He kills himself more often than not.
NorthernPolarity wrote: onimus wrote: NorthernPolarity wrote: locked wrote: Nope, I'm starting to have a feeling that new Sentry is awful for transitioners as well. Most of them can't afford to splurge on shielding or HP boosts, and without that, using Sentry as a core character is VERY problematic. I know I try not to use any of his skills in his LRs if I bother playing those at all. oBW and A.Wolverine were very helpful for my transition, perhaps because oBW could heal then and Wolvie had great passive healing. For punching above their weight, cStorm/MMN suffice well enough not to mention how reliable they are compared to Sentry. Did I say that I failed to beat a non-deadly PvE node with Sentry/Falcon/3* Daken? Because I did. Got World Rupture and Sacrifice out alright, 2 Sacs even, but then it all fell apart before WR had a chance to tick down to 2 turns at least. Well the main advantage that Sentry has over MNM / C. Storm is that people will hesitate significantly more before retaliating against a Sentry based composition. I mean, this should be seen somewhat easily by comparing Sentry to BP. Supernova is a RotP that deals 1k to your own team. Sacrifice is a battleplan that deals 1.7k to Sentry. Yeah, These two skills are obviously worse than BP's counterparts, but the fact that BP is a top tier character for transitioners and Sentry's abilities are almost carbon copies of BP's in terms of power level means that he can't be completely awful for a transitioner. The main thing here is that you don't need sustainability if you use a 2* team up to 400, and then use your Sentry team to push higher at the end. The self damage is worth it if you can get say 6-8 good matches up to 750 or 800, which should easily be doable on 5 health packs in the sentry / daken / loaner comp where you're only health packing sentry. The only people who hesitate to retaliate Sentry are the ones going through PTSD from when he was good. He's just a big, fluffy hp wall. He kills himself more often than not. Sacrifice and supernova have always been scary on defense, and they still are. I'm guessing that this is your X-Force privilege talking, since every character in the game except ladythor and dino is a big, fluffy HP wall against the force hammer. If a Sentry + 2* Daken teams attacks your 166 Punisher / Cap team, you're probably going to hesitate more on retaliating if they're worth 25 points as opposed to a mnm / cstorm team. Sentry is still among the upper end of defensive scarecrows comparatively speaking, not sure how that is really arguable.
Phantron wrote: Why would being inferior to X Force put you at top 20? In terms of pure damage potential, the #2 character the game is still 'pre X Force'.
Spoit wrote: Phantron wrote: Why would being inferior to X Force put you at top 20? In terms of pure damage potential, the #2 character the game is still 'pre X Force'. In terms of pure damage potential, x-force is #2, after FT.
onimus wrote: Phantron wrote: Why would being inferior to X Force put you at top 20? In terms of pure damage potential, the #2 character the game is still 'pre X Force'. A character can still be useful without being Xforce. Pairing with Xforce, for example, sky rockets you up the list. Magneto, Deadpool, 4hor, Hood, 3 star Thor, Fury, Daken. Even Captain Marvel. There is also Patch, whose sustain makes him good from 0 to 700 for almost no health packs, especially when paired with Daken. Hulk is strong because of his combo with Patch to create what Sentry used to be. Strong, reliable, quick AoE damage at the expense of health packs. Then there are characters like Captain America who has use in both PVE and PVP, so he's versatile. Or Falcon or Grey Suit who are fringe top 20 for being super strong in PVE. Sentry does not go well with Xforce because you don't want Xforce eating unnecessary damage from Sentry's abilities. He's not good for climbing. He isn't very strong in PVE. And he isn't reliable either. There are multiple ways to be top 20 without being as good as Xforce. Sentry has none of those qualities. Sentry's only real use is to hope people still fear what he used to be. And to damage your team for mediocre to decent-ish turn ending damage. I imagine it is beginning to look like I'm stuck on Sentry. I just don't see how he could be anything above 22 or maybe 23.
NorthernPolarity wrote: I brainstormed a lot about Sentry, and I think that he can be an excellent transition character in a similar vein to Gamora if he's literally your only useable character for a while. The thing about Sentry is that Supernova is still a great ability: 3-4k potential team damage for 12 AP is amazing, and is miles better than most transition characters / teams you can come up with. The drawback of course is that you kill your own team, but if you run Sentry / Loaner / 2* Daken, then only Sentry is going to require health packs. I could see this team composition easily punching above its weight class and earning a lot more covers than most other 3* / Loaner / 2* team composition. Of course, Sentry becomes pretty useless once you actually make the transition and is a terrible long-term investment, but until then, he's probably pretty great.
NorthernPolarity wrote: Sentry is still a top tier character. He has the same amount of HP as X-Force, destroys everyone on defense, and deserves to be top 10 in the rankings. He is totally useful in a full, fleshed out roster, and deserves all the playtime in the world because he's super underrated and still super awesome.