Operation Pay Harder: A Debrief

reckless442

Operation Pay Harder is now in effect. Welcome to the new MPQ.

Actually, no, that’s not true. But we have your attention now and wanted to explain who we are and why we stole first place in Hollowpoint Kiss.

In short, Operation Pay Harder was born out of an idea by members of Django Unbuffed. Realizing that the new time-sharding system in the game could be manipulated, they proposed that we create a team for this PVP of high scorers who would jump to a newly created alliance at the last minute and “win” the event (thanks D3, for removing the cost of buy alliance slots). Needless to say, volunteers lined up – a collection of players from Django, S.H.I.E.L.D, Deadpools Tacos, Shi-ar Empire, Deadpools Rings, TheLetterD, and Retribution who put up so many high scores that players with scores over 2000 did not make our top-20. The rest of the players in those alliances graciously went along with the plan, despite knowing that it would hurt their alliance rewards.

So why did 20 players leave their alliances for this event and the rest of their alliances willingly gave up top-10 scores? We did it because we needed to get D3’s attention. We think this effort points out flaws in the PVP system that need to be fixed. First, the different end times leave alliance rankings prone to manipulation. When we swapped, most of the members of other top-scoring alliances had already finished playing. The could not do anything to counter our sudden high scores.

Second, this PVP showed the horrible disparity between time-shards. With nearly all the highest scores in the fourth time-slot, they and other players were able to run up scores to previously unseen numbers. We could get 40-point matches at 2,000 points. Meanwhile, players in other time-shards could barely find 10-point matches at 1,000 points. Those players are now at a huge disadvantage in their season rankings.

This is fundamentally unfair and unworkable. We ask D3 to remove the time-shards and return PVP events to single end times. While it is admirable that D3 wanted to find a solution to the inconvenient end times for European players, this system is a failure. Instead, let’s rotate end times between events. Let the entire player base share the burden of problematic end times.

We also ask D3 to not implement such major changes during seasons, before serious discussion and beta testing takes place. We have a week between seasons and, while the MMR test was painful, at least it didn’t ruin the entire season for many players.

Hopefully, this stunt got people’s attention and we hope the entire MPQ community will benefit from our efforts.

Unknown

Well said Reck. And thanks to all members of OPH and their contributing alliances for scarificing alliance placement for what will hopefully bring some attention to these issues.

This was also a blast to pull off.

marc

Unknown

I take the point about different scoring levels in time slices, but swapping the 20 best non xmen into one alliance could be done regardless so not sure how it manipulates that system - given all the players were in slice 4 as you say.

Well done guys anyway - great scores all. Now please stay together for next PvP and see if you can beat xmen in a fair fight

tbighead21

that sounds like a challenge!

Unknown

Very well said, Reckless. A big thank you to all the alliances who made this happen either directly or indirectly. Hopefully, the message is heard by D3.

As it was said, while it is admirable that there was an attempt to fix the end time situation, the execution of the current system was deeply flawed. The current game mechanics for time zone endings should have been tested like the MMR test was - during the offseason. It should not have been rolled-out mid-season.

The issues in the system must be addressed. If you are the one of the lucky ones who picked a great time slot full of players, you can contribute greatly to your alliance score. If you happen to draw the "wrong lot" it can seriously hurt the alliance's efforts. Additionally, how is it a workable system if one group in the populous timeslot can basically climb easily to reach awards and points? If you happen to get stuck in one of the time slot "wastelands" you could be paying heaps of ISO skip tax to find your next 15 point target in the hopes you might reach 900 points. Also, for a group of players to be able to create and form an alliance to take a first place win, when players are still playing and some are not, is completely unfair to those still trying to score points for their teams. This was all done using legitimate game mechanics to show why this set-up must be changed.

To truly help others in different parts of the world not have to get up throughout the week in the early morning to hold on to a win, the current system must be examined to eliminate the harm it poses to the "unlucky" ones. We really hope that D3 will be open to seeing the flaws in the current and ongoing "test" and make an effort to further engage the community and create a more balanced system that helps its players.

Kind regards,
JBK

Unknown

I guess we are all on the same page that having a fair time for all player base would benefit us all, but the current method and being in the mid season is extremely bad to us all.

I would nevertheless encourage the system for pve and to be done before next pve starts. On the contrary of pvp, in pve no body would be willing to lose covers.

An easy system that can be implemented is that every pvp ends one hour later than the previous one, so basically we have the sane pvp ending at the same time every 24 events, so we split the time burden to all players in all regions equally.

As for OPH congratulations on your scores and as Mike said, why not stick together and see if you are still able to do the same.

Unknown

I for one welcome our new MPQ overlords.

Unknown

djsquillz wrote:

Well said Reck. And thanks to all members of OPH and their contributing alliances for scarificing alliance placement for what will hopefully bring some attention to these issues.

This was also a blast to pull off.

marc

This was fun working with players from the top alliances. I can't speak for everyone but I can speak for myself. This was not about beating any specific Alliance. It was about demonstrating the flaws inherent in the current system. It must be fixed so that this kind of thing can never happen again. Using paying customers as beta-testers against their will is mighty presumptuous of the developers. This system has already messed up more than one person's season score.

I think we will start to see an intentional segregation of players into specific shards. Players not in those shards will not be able to get as many points as players in those shards. This will not level the playing field, it will simply separate the levels further. And it will happen quickly.

D3 just created a player ranking system without meaning to and if you don't believe me, join shard #4. If you don't, good luck scoring over 1300. If you do, the sky is the limit.

Fix the system, please? I'm not saying to do away with it, just fix it.

turul

While i had the season-disadvantage of only 25 or below enemies above 1000pts in my shard, I had the advantage of #1-ing the event.

I think the situation isnt so bad, that different-ending should be cancelled. Im sure D3 can fix this.

The best quick solution could be 3 time shards, no more.

Unknown

reckless442 wrote:

The rest of the players in those alliances graciously went along with the plan, despite knowing that it would hurt their alliance rewards.

Still managed top 25 with only 14 members not like the 2K ISO will be missed much form a top 10 finish.

Chrono_Tata

Dear D3P,

While the time shard system has clearly proven problematic, the ability to select ending times for each event has been the most pleasant change to this game since I've started playing this game. People around the world no matter where they live or what their daily schedule are can finally actually enjoy playing this game in their own time without having to sacrifice being competitive for event rewards.

Unlike the more hardcore players, us players further down the food chain don't care about coordinating time shard entrances in order to get a bajillion points, and I don't actually see a lot of difference in average points that my alliance and similarly placed alliances are getting. This isn't to say that there isn't a problem with the system (not to mention that I disagree with the timing of the test in the middle of the Season), but it's a problem that should be mitigateable without scuttling the entire thing.

Don't punish 99% of players for exploits that can be done by 1% of players. Please keep the selectable end times while addressing the problem of disparity between different shards.

Unknown

http://imgur.com/Tjp8cCV
Event score


http://imgur.com/ed84oAT
Death bracket

Unknown

OpPayHarder was an awesome project. It's fun and breaks the routine up. Thanks for that.

However, the new end times system is a good idea if it is fixed. And it should stay. Even though I could not find a match worthing more than 25 points in the last hours, and considering I was a high scorer in my shard, I was queued like I had never been before. So I hardly could unshield either. I wouldn't mind adapting my gameplay if I can sleep better and improve my health. Many EU players wake up at night for MPQ. They are addict there is nothing to be done about that. So we should think about this first.

Most of the player base was not affected by these changes, only the Top 20 Alliances probably was.

MPQ does not revolve around the Top 20, and D3P made us understand that long ago.

Now, about season rankings (Alliance/Players) :

- what difference does it make if you are Top 10/5/1 in the Season considering the **** rewards you get ?
- haven't you proved so far you were a good player in the last months ?

As long as ranking higher does not bring more juicy reward, I don't see why we should be bothered by the time shards...

X-Men guys want to break the ceiling every event. Let them do. If others want to challenge them, let them do.

Once again, you proved that one can succeed with money (and luck) in MPQ, but that's nothing new.

The new system has to be improved, not deleted.

tbighead21

The main thing I took from 20 high scorers combining at the end to overtake XMen is that 20 players from multiple alliances CAN team up and beat the XMen. OpPayHarder and Xmen should have a rematch.
The diff end times is a good idea. It just needs work and you should be able to attack people in all brackets.

Unknown

Everybody learns from experience. D3P especially asked for feedback, and were willing to improve things.

How could anyone know what would happen without experimenting it ?

I'm the first to shout when there are things I don't like. But this is probably the best effort they have made towards the community in months. They have to be backed and not bashed/criticized.

After all the efforts we've made to make the end times change (and the money they have invested in it), we would just say : throw the whole thing to the garbage because 20 people could show the system can be abused ?

We would lose ALL CREDIT if we asked them to go back to what it was.

Don't expect any future change in the game if you destroy time shards.

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

Everybody learns from experience. D3P especially asked for feedback, and were willing to improve things.

How could anyone know what would happen without experimenting it ?

I'm the first to shout when there are things I don't like. But this is probably the best effort they have made towards the community in months. They have to be backed and not bashed/criticized.

After all the efforts we've made to make the end times change (and the money they have invested in it), we would just say : throw the whole thing to the garbage because 20 people could show the system can be abused ?

We would lose ALL CREDIT if we asked them to go back to what it was.

Don't expect any future change in the game if you destroy time shards.

The system needs to be re-examined and improved - and would probably best be tested in the off-season.

acescracked

arktos1971 wrote:

OpPayHarder was an awesome project. It's fun and breaks the routine up. Thanks for that.

However, the new end times system is a good idea if it is fixed. And it should stay. Even though I could not find a match worthing more than 25 points in the last hours, and considering I was a high scorer in my shard, I was queued like I had never been before. So I hardly could unshield either. I wouldn't mind adapting my gameplay if I can sleep better and improve my health. Many EU players wake up at night for MPQ. They are addict there is nothing to be done about that. So we should think about this first.

Most of the player base was not affected by these changes, only the Top 20 Alliances probably was.

MPQ does not revolve around the Top 20, and D3P made us understand that long ago.

Now, about season rankings (Alliance/Players) :

- what difference does it make if you are Top 10/5/1 in the Season considering the **** rewards you get ?
- haven't you proved so far you were a good player in the last months ?

As long as ranking higher does not bring more juicy reward, I don't see why we should be bothered by the time shards...

X-Men guys want to break the ceiling every event. Let them do. If others want to challenge them, let them do.

Once again, you proved that one can succeed with money (and luck) in MPQ, but that's nothing new.

The new system has to be improved, not deleted.

It needs a major overhaul then. I needed the black xforce cover in the hulk PvP. It was the first run of time slices so I just picked a shard and went for it without coordinating with my or other alliances. I picked the wrong shard and because of that I have to burn a lot more iso and hp and boosts to try and get 1300. The players that picked the correct time shard its cheaper to hit the progressions? Just cause I picked the wrong shard should make progression rewards much much harder for me? You experienced it and know what I'm talking about.

PvP - player vs player. Time slice PvAFP - player vs a few of the players.

Different start/end times help alot of players fine. That justifies hurting other players? Fine have all shards start at the same time but have differnt end times. But list number of players, player names and player scores per time shard. Then we can make a better choice of which shard to enter.

Unknown

-JBK- wrote:

The system needs to be re-examined and improved - and would probably best be tested in the off-season.

Off season is 5 days. It's not enough.

What harm does it make to screw the scores of one season, if the game is better forever after ? Is it the end of the world if one Alliance is not in the Top 10 (or whatever) ? The 20 guys in OpPayHarder have nothing to expect from season rewards, and most of the Top 20 either, so what's the problem ? Maybe thousands of players will have a better gameplay experience after all. So who cares about the Top 10 ?

One needs to be patient and help D3P with good ideas to improve the system.

MPQ will become a big thing if they improve the game the way they are now.

Unknown

While I totally see the point of OP, I'll have to partly disagree here.

Sure scores are open to manipulation but no one is guaranteed anything by doing so. The problem you describe affects mostly the top players. I get it, you guys cannot find 30 point matches to jump over 2k points. A question though, why do you need to do that when top progression is 1300 points? Sure, the answer is because you can and you want to break records. Or because PVP is indeed problematic at parts. Asking for a change that saves sleepless hours from the game base to not be implemented because you can't hop to insane scores is a bit selfish in my opinion.

Time shards have certainly improved the game. I understand it will not be perfect, but it is better than before. For the issue of insane scores, I don't think they're normal. They have to do something so that they can stop scores from jumping so high and not encourage them. Have you stopped to think about people (Including me) that had to spend 150 HP on 8 hr shields every PVP in order to maybe get in the T100 for the one cover? At least now I can play that last hour and win my T100 cover without spending any HP and saving my resources for Roster Slots (Another big issue).

Personally, I'm so glad my last bracket had scores of only 1100 max because my 600 points put me in #96 right at the last minute. 3 months ago I was able to go T50 with such a score, now I can barely break into T100. All because those crazy 2k+ scores that I find ridiculous and pointless. I know there is a season score to manage, but that shouldn't directly punish me for trying to get that one cover (Another big issue but not the right place to go about it).

Now, if people want to score high like you, they can go in your time shard and go nuts. After all, they will just be in the same situation like they where before. Time sharing is optional and you can choose whichever time you desire. If the big sharks gather in that 4th time you mention be my guest. I (and many others) choose to play casually in my own timezone. I don't see how this hurts veterans so much that they would want this change to go away.

Without trying to come out harsh or negative, I vote PRO end time selection!

Unknown

arktos1971 wrote:

Everybody learns from experience. D3P especially asked for feedback, and were willing to improve things.

How could anyone know what would happen without experimenting it ?

I'm the first to shout when there are things I don't like. But this is probably the best effort they have made towards the community in months. They have to be backed and not bashed/criticized.

After all the efforts we've made to make the end times change (and the money they have invested in it), we would just say : throw the whole thing to the garbage because 20 people could show the system can be abused ?

We would lose ALL CREDIT if we asked them to go back to what it was.

Don't expect any future change in the game if you destroy time shards.

I really liked your first post. (not the one i quoted but the one before in the thread)

i am still abit puzzled about what there is to 'abused'. Way before this multi-time ending option is available, i thought alliance jumping was very common especially for PVE? If the swapping is well planned and co-ordinated, even if all X-men teams (1-5) are available i doubt they can have enough time to swap around to maintain the top 1/2 position if its done in the last 5-10 mins prior to event finishes?

I agree some changes needed to be made though, its really tinykitty stupid to be put into a bracket with leader at 1k and its been opened for 24hrs+.

Unknown

acescracked wrote:

I needed the black xforce cover in the hulk PvP.

Don't worry, you'll have plenty of other occasions to win this Back XForce cover. That's not the problem now.

I chose the worst shard, and it was not as fun to play as usual, just because I was not used to it.

But choosing the time when it is best for your personal life to end an event is actually something pretty good. And we should try to adapt to the change (if several members of the same Alliance are in the same shard they can feed each other for example) rather than starting another riot on the forum.