Is it possible that they're actually scrapping Speed Evil?

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Blue Shoes wrote:

Misguided wrote:

EvilSonGoku wrote:

My 2 cents... maybe have different LRs you can enter with diff reward tiers instead of automatically forcing people into a bracket. If u w ant to play lower tier u get lower rewards. If someone said this sorry, I only skimmed the comments.

That's an idea I could get behind. It would be interesting if there were some overlap. Suppose you could win Doom or Loki covers in the lower tier, then use those to compete for Rag/Mag. Or they could offer diabolical tokens as upper tier prizes. Interesting idea.

That's what Soenottelling and I were suggesting. It gives lower level players an opportunity to get to a level to compete in the next tier up.

Given that particular transition is rather difficult, I like the idea of doing something to smooth it a little (without making it a joke). What would you think of buffing other 3* characters to a lesser degree, so if you have, say, a decent level IM40 or Hulk, it could help with the transition, or would that just make it tougher?

Phantron wrote:

The LRs are just poorly designed because to do well in them pretty much requires you already have most of the prizes and in that case you wouldn't need to do LR in the first place.

That's simply untrue.

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Phantron wrote:

The LRs are just poorly designed because to do well in them pretty much requires you already have most of the prizes and in that case you wouldn't need to do LR in the first place.

I disagree. There is a progression to them. When you start, you're just playing for the lowbie rewards of free iso and the standard token. You build your roster further. You start getting to where you can earn a Heroic. you build your roster further. You get a team that's strong enough to get some covers from diabolics. You build more. Eventually you are strong enough to compete for actual covers, targeting what you need to complete the villians. and hopefully, once you no longer need the rewards, you drop out of competition in them, allowing those still working on them to place.

I think it's ok to get the top prizes requires you have those characters at a high rank. Getting those top prizes allows you to finish off the character, and you can contend for them without having the characters maxed.

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There are 50 slots in a LR that gives you a diabolical token or better, yet the size of the bracket is 100K, or 200 times that of a normal bracket.

Getting a diabolical token is like finishing top 1 in your bracket 4 times in a row in terms of competitiveness. You're not doing that without an imposing 3 star villian already on your team. Yes of course you can always get lucky when there are few people playing, but that's not a viable strategy and 'getting lucky' is not progression.

All of you saying 'back in my days', well back in your days there aren't people who are already sitting on a level 100 villian who are basically impossible to beat without another similar calibur character, so yeah of course you can work your way up. The +200% boosts pretty much prevents anyone without a high level 3 star villian from doing well. In the Double Shot event I don't have a high level IM40 and need to be very careful around anyone with even a level 50 IM40, and he's only boosted 100%, not 200%.

One obvious fix for this would be only the currently featured villian is boosted that round. For example Loki isn't that intimidating as the featured villian, but the level 100 Dr. Doom and Ragnarok with him sure is even if they're not the featured villian due to their boosts.

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I think this could be a good place to bring up the 6* max tournament. If you do it in lightning rounds at the same time as speed evil, it would be a great lower tier. By having a must use character every round, it would bring a lot of variety. The rewards would be as good, but worth it for lower players. Maybe top prize is Loki, so you can get a buffed character for LR's, but the high level players won't want it.

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Phantron wrote:

Getting a diabolical token is like finishing top 1 in your bracket 4 times in a row in terms of competitiveness.

No, because the actual number of people playing in any particular lightning round is considerably smaller due to the short duration of a given round (in some rounds less than 10k). The 100k size is simply so everyone is accommodated in one group. Is it difficult? Yes, but you are talking about the best prizes in the game, so it should be difficult. As Kyosokun explained so well, there are rewards at different tiers for every level of player.

Your "fix" is an awful idea, because it prevents people from starting with the less competitive rounds and then using those characters to help with the more difficult ones.

The real problem is that as you start to ascend to where you can compete for the top prizes, you are bound to run your mmr up, and will find yourself facing opposition consisting of max level villains. I could see where this would mistakenly lead you to the belief that a high level 3* is a requirement.

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Phantron wrote:

You're not doing that without an imposing 3 star villian already on your team.

People keep saying this. People keep being wrong. Just because you cannot do it with whatever your team is doesn't mean it cannot be done. If D3 would post here they could actually back it up -- but I've seen plenty of people w/ 2* teams in the top 50, or even top 25, in recent Lightning Rounds.

That said, I'm all for removing the +200% buff. I think it's absurd. A small buff (50-80%) might be reasonable, but the 200% one is just ridiculous. I've said that since they first introduced the buff.

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Blue Shoes wrote:

I think this could be a good place to bring up the 6* max tournament. If you do it in lightning rounds at the same time as speed evil, it would be a great lower tier. By having a must use character every round, it would bring a lot of variety. The rewards would be as good, but worth it for lower players. Maybe top prize is Loki, so you can get a buffed character for LR's, but the high level players won't want it.

Nobody wants Loki, regardless of how high level you are. And he won't help you do well in LR IMO

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Phantron wrote:

There are 50 slots in a LR that gives you a diabolical token or better, yet the size of the bracket is 100K, or 200 times that of a normal bracket.

Getting a diabolical token is like finishing top 1 in your bracket 4 times in a row in terms of competitiveness. You're not doing that without an imposing 3 star villian already on your team. Yes of course you can always get lucky when there are few people playing, but that's not a viable strategy and 'getting lucky' is not progression.

Not really, because due to the limited time frame of the tournament, it has a lot less people playing. I think it's been observed that there are typically 5k participants per LR, and a goodly amount of those are not really competing, just throwing their hat in for the free iso and easy standard tokens (like me, most rounds).

I'm not saying competition is not fierce for those diabolics, it's definitely an effort worthy of a 1st place win in a standard tournament. But you are blowing it out of proportion. And you get the chance to try again every 2 hours.

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I havent tried in a lightning round in a month. I rush to 250 points and then send out my job squad

Instead of hating on the top players you should thank us, we all do this to make it easier for the rest of you to get higher scores.

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Zath, you might see some outliers or anecdotals of 2* teams placing in the top 50, but that is not the norm. The vast, vast majority of those teams I encounter are hovering in the 170-275 point range. Which usually places you outside of the top 50 (unless it's during the 'off-hours').

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I personally have to agree with phantron.

Look, you experienced users don't get it, or at least don't remember how hard the Lightning Rounds is.

Try doing the LR aiming for a cover, with your 2* Level 85 team. Don't use your Rags or Mags. Then maybe you'll start to see what I mean.

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The problem is you newer players want mags and rags immediately. Go build a hood or doom first, then play with the big boys. It's a series of progressions.

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mechgouki wrote:

I personally have to agree with phantron.

Look, you experienced users don't get it, or at least don't remember how hard the Lightning Rounds is.

Try doing the LR aiming for a cover, with your 2* Level 85 team. Don't use your Rags or Mags. Then maybe you'll start to see what I mean.

If you can't place with that team, then your match rating is too high. That's the problem. It isn't a flaw with the lightning round design, but the general design of the point structure.

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mechgouki wrote:

I personally have to agree with phantron.

Look, you experienced users don't get it, or at least don't remember how hard the Lightning Rounds is.

Try doing the LR aiming for a cover, with your 2* Level 85 team. Don't use your Rags or Mags. Then maybe you'll start to see what I mean.

I top 2'd a Mag lightning round with 2 stars in mid to late December which is considered the most competitive now. You have to be super aggressive and tank beforehand but it's definitely possible.

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Toxicadam wrote:

Zath, you might see some outliers or anecdotals of 2* teams placing in the top 50, but that is not the norm. The vast, vast majority of those teams I encounter are hovering in the 170-275 point range. Which usually places you outside of the top 50 (unless it's during the 'off-hours').

Once you have a 2* maxed team, you can start sneaking into the Diabolics. It's tough, but doable. Add some of the more common 3*s, and it gets a bit easier.

mechgouki wrote:

I personally have to agree with phantron.

Look, you experienced users don't get it, or at least don't remember how hard the Lightning Rounds is.

Try doing the LR aiming for a cover, with your 2* Level 85 team. Don't use your Rags or Mags. Then maybe you'll start to see what I mean.

No, we DO get it. It's hard. It's supposed to be. A 2* team shouldn't be able to place above a Diabolic token. Getting those tokens is part of progressing.

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Toxicadam wrote:

Zath, you might see some outliers or anecdotals of 2* teams placing in the top 50, but that is not the norm. The vast, vast majority of those teams I encounter are hovering in the 170-275 point range. Which usually places you outside of the top 50 (unless it's during the 'off-hours').

You're only seeing teams that have a similar MMR as you. And just because the vast majority are in that range doesn't mean there are none in the higher ranks.

As has been said numerous times in this thread, players with maxed villains don't compete for anything more than 250 (if that). Sure, some with a few covers are trying to get more but they eventually get them and stop participating as well. And I'm pretty sure some like Dugan (and myself) haven't even bothered to max out the likes of loki, doom and hood.

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entropic01 wrote:

mechgouki wrote:

I personally have to agree with phantron.

Look, you experienced users don't get it, or at least don't remember how hard the Lightning Rounds is.

Try doing the LR aiming for a cover, with your 2* Level 85 team. Don't use your Rags or Mags. Then maybe you'll start to see what I mean.

I top 2'd a Mag lightning round with 2 stars in mid to late December which is considered the most competitive now

Damn I've only got 1 top 2 in a mags round and i use a 115 rag / 128 mag / 141 spidey lol

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Will any of the guys offering advice actually try to do a LR without using a high level villian to demonstrate how it's done right now? Of course anything is possible. Find an off peak hour plus the general insanity of the LR anything is possible. Doesn't mean you've a way to actually approach even a level 100 Loki without having a similar character when that guy shows up on your attack list due to his 200% boost, and that's by far the weakest villian.

In The Hulk event, Wolverine is only boosted 80% and yet he's pretty much a one man team in that event. Imagine he's boosted 200%, and that most of your opponents do not have Wolverine. That's what LR is. Sure anybody can get lucky, but hoping your name happens to not show up on people's attack list is not progression.

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beezer37_84 wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

Zath, you might see some outliers or anecdotals of 2* teams placing in the top 50, but that is not the norm. The vast, vast majority of those teams I encounter are hovering in the 170-275 point range. Which usually places you outside of the top 50 (unless it's during the 'off-hours').

You're only seeing teams that have a similar MMR as you. And just because the vast majority are in that range doesn't mean there are none in the higher ranks.

As has been said numerous times in this thread, players with maxed villains don't compete for anything more than 250 (if that). Sure, some with a few covers are trying to get more but they eventually get them and stop participating as well. And I'm pretty sure some like Dugan (and myself) haven't even bothered to max out the likes of loki, doom and hood.

My loki is at 5/3, my doom is at 4/3, and my hood is at 5/5/3 without ever trying (I keep getting him in heroics lol).

No interest whatsoever finishing up my loki or doom at this point.

My mag is 5/2/5 and i still dont feel like trying to get his last red. When I want him to get to 141 (hes at 128 maxed out right now) ill just buy his last cover.

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Phantron wrote:

Will any of the guys offering advice actually try to do a LR without using a high level villian to demonstrate how it's done right now? Of course anything is possible. Find an off peak hour plus the general insanity of the LR anything is possible. Doesn't mean you've a way to actually approach even a level 100 Loki without having a similar character when that guy shows up on your attack list due to his 200% boost, and that's by far the weakest villian.

In The Hulk event, Wolverine is only boosted 80% and yet he's pretty much a one man team in that event. Imagine he's boosted 200%, and that most of your opponents do not have Wolverine. That's what LR is. Sure anybody can get lucky, but hoping your name happens to not show up on people's attack list is not progression.

Us with high level villains also have high MMR so it's much harder for us.