*** Gamora (Guardians of the Galaxy) ***

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Comments

  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    She's tanky so she can gather the ap for her skills, but once you gather it you're just left feeling disappointed.

    Red is fine, could do with another 300-400 points to round out a nice 400/AP instead of 300/AP.
    Green is way under the curve. Just all around disappointing for the cost.
    Black can be amazing or terrible, but there's really no in between.

    Overall, she's a tanky damage dealer that doesn't deal damage. All the other tanky heroes that are effective in their roles really hurt once they finally get all their AP.

    She just...doesnt.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    With 4hor and Xforce I can see situations where Gamora's green can be better than Xforce's whereas I can't think of a situation where I would use Bad Reputation over Surgical.

    In terms of random PvE teams I come up with, only if I were to pair her with Patch or Thor would it truly be beneficial to have Black over Green (and even then there may be some situations where that stun could be a life saver). With every other team I came up with they're either equal or green comes out slightly ahead.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    With 4hor and Xforce I can see situations where Gamora's green can be better than Xforce's whereas I can't think of a situation where I would use Bad Reputation over Surgical.
    Well, there's the case where surgical steals black, and you're otherwise left waiting for the board to fill up with blacks again, but yeah, that's pretty niche.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    With 4hor and Xforce I can see situations where Gamora's green can be better than Xforce's whereas I can't think of a situation where I would use Bad Reputation over Surgical.
    Well, there's the case where surgical steals black, and you're otherwise left waiting for the board to fill up with blacks again, but yeah, that's pretty niche.

    Or you kill their black user and surgical again for a different color. If there was the case where I had 9 green and 9 blue, I would consider going for a green match then doing gamora stun + thor stun the following turn. 2 free turns to gather blue + red should give me enough time to wipe them out. When the enemy team is all 10k+ hp the stun could be more useful than just doing 4.5k damage.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    Been running Gamora (5/5/3 level 78) 166 Spidey 166 preboost Falcon on the survival nodes. With a falcon purple up gamora's black doesn't get buffed much but the protect tiles are getting enhanced so much they're negating 2k+ CD tile hits. Storing up green and blue is letting me destroy the real characters when they pop out and gamora's red is making it very easy to ensure the real characters pop out on my turn (denying wolverine his free adamantium slash). I will probably end up maxing her if her PvP is for Cyclops.

    I think she might be more useful than Punisher in some situations and am liking the 2x 2 turn stun more than the tile boost from 5 black.
  • dkffiv wrote:
    Been running Gamora (5/5/3 level 78) 166 Spidey 166 preboost Falcon on the survival nodes. With a falcon purple up gamora's black doesn't get buffed much but the protect tiles are getting enhanced so much they're negating 2k+ CD tile hits. Storing up green and blue is letting me destroy the real characters when they pop out and gamora's red is making it very easy to ensure the real characters pop out on my turn (denying wolverine his free adamantium slash). I will probably end up maxing her if her PvP is for Cyclops.

    I think she might be more useful than Punisher in some situations and am liking the 2x 2 turn stun more than the tile boost from 5 black.
    GUYS SOMEONE IS MAXING GAMORA

    Let us know what happens please.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2015
    So after playing with her for a bit here are my observations:

    Max level PvP w/4hor and Xforce:
    -Red does 2.5k damage and is occasionally more useful than Smite.
    -So far I've never needed to use black, the only situation where I would ever use it is if Xforce somehow died. 4hor tanks red blue and yellow, Xforce black, Gamora green and purple. With a max level team 5 cover black seems pretty bad. (Level 249 Gamora tanks green and purple, level 166 she only tanks purple with those 2)
    -There are situations where green can be more useful than Xforce's. I haven't been hit by her green yet in PvP but I could see having 2 of your characters stunned for 2 turns swing the battle quickly. Her strongest color is green so if the enemy Xforce gets off a Surgical you could face that the following turn.

    PvE:
    She is pretty damn slow. I think I would only use her in survival when you have the opportunity to stockpile a ton of AP. Punisher basically does what she does but better. Her advantage over Punisher is the ability to control your damage (at the cost of being quite a bit slower - matches can take twice as long). With Punisher I was doing 3-4k damage a turn between match damage and attack tiles. This put the mobs out of his red range and would let the real character pop out with the new wave (I got lucky that Wolv never cast Adamantium as he jumped out). If there was a survival set where 3 real characters popped out (like in the Deadpool Dailies), her green could be more useful but if its only one real character Spider-Man gets the stun job done.

    -Her green feels fairly balanced but dropping its cost to 10 or 11 would be welcomed. I'd lean toward 11 since its function is very similar to Wind Storm. PvE-wise cheaper = better but 10 AP may make it too strong in PvP.
    -Red is fairly balanced but raising it to a 400 damage to AP ratio would also be welcomed.
    -Black is very expensive and funneling all the tiles to yellow sucks. Cost/function wise its similar to Rocket & Groot, but Groot feels fine because of his health advantage and amazing heal. I'd rather it be 9 AP and create 3 tiles whose strength is based on the number of tiles bearing her symbol at the time its cast. Something like (level based flat amount) +1 for 1-2 cover, +2 for 3-4, +3 for 5 covers per her tile on the board. Figure with an ideal setup (her tanking 3 of the 6 colors) you should be able to get around 28 of her tiles, 5 cover level 166 maybe 120 + (3 * 28) = 3x 204 tile. If she's the last woman standing it would probably be something like 120 + (3 * 56) = 3x 288 tiles. Its similar to BP but I think overall should be a bit weaker than his (if she's only tanking 2 colors it would be 174ish. I think its okay that its similar / only slightly weaker than BP because to get it to function she has to be around the same level as everyone else).

    In practice with Spider-Man and Falcon, her yellow tiles don't survive because matching that color for Inspiration is pretty important. A portion of the yellow tiles also end up becoming web tiles too. Punisher's tiles fair much better because they're on random colors. I'd prefer if her black put the strike tiles on either random or not-her colors (blue yellow purple).
  • I'm not a numbers guy, so I can't comment on that. All I can say is that, to me, Gamora feels like she is Marvel Puzzle Quest's appendix or vestigial tail.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Really the only case that you need to think about is PvE heroics. PvP happens so infrequently that optimizing for the one PvP every 3 months where shes just a glorified punching bag for xor just seems extremely marginal. In this lethal intent PvP, having 5 red was nice since green and black was useless, but honestly what did 5 vs 3 red accomplish? On offense, you're smiting guys down anyways, and the times where it mattered you were probably winning already. On defense, 5 red could hurt the opponent, but the only time it makes a difference on defense is if you actually a win a game on defense with 5 red that you wouldn't have with 3 red, and the times where that matters must be under one match per PvP, making it pointless to optimize for PvP defense as well.

    Normal PvE, she's slow and a bad option to everyone else, so the only time I think she'll ever be useful is in heroics when you're forced to use her, or when she's featured in a PvE, and thats what you should optimize your build for. In normal PvE, xor still dominates (see a pattern here?) so really, the only time her build will EVER matter is in a heroic. And in heroics, there are really only two builds you need to consider:

    1. 5/5/3 - This is the more versatile, less powerful build. If Gamora isn't the major boosted character, then her black is going to be mediocre, so you should max the two skills that will always be.... passable. 5 red and 5 green are average, but hey, at least Gamora will always be an average green / red guy on your team. This build also has the upside of making her an okay seed killer in LRs (although Psylocke does that job better).

    2. 5/3/5 - This is the riskier, but more powerful build. If Gamora is major boosted or you build your heroic team around her so she tanks 3+ covers, black is going to do an insane 1k strike tiles, which will quickly end the match. 5 green is preferred over 5 red because if you're going this build, then you're going to hoard your AP until after you cast black, and then unload. Playing this way, the extra turn of stun ends up dealing far more damage than the increased damage in red will (you can see this by doing the match, an extra turn is an extra 3 ap and 1.5k damage, and the damage upgrades on red/green after strikes is roughly equivalent). If she isn't major boosted or if she can't be on a team where she tanks 3 colors.... then she gets significantly worse. I'd like to believe that this is always possible to make a good team with her though, since you'll hopefully have some decent 2*s like OBW and C. Storm that will never tank her colors.

    3/5/5 is a bad build in heroics due to the reasoning in point 2, so it's a matter of preference from there. I'm probably gonna go 5/3/5 since I want to live the dream of her carrying a team in a heroic, since she sure as hell isn't going to carry a team anywhere else.
  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,034 Chairperson of the Boards
    On offense 5 red sometimes did enough damage to down someone with Xforce + Razor's Edge (or Surgical + Skull Cracker + Razor's Edge). 5 red did about 2500 damage where 3 would be around 1350 I think, a lot of times I was downing people with around 2k life with it.

    12 AP feels like a lot to not have an immediate effect. I'm not sure why I'm so biased toward classifying her black as terrible whereas I consider Groot's 11 AP to be really good. If she's tanking 3 colors on average (assuming there are 7 yellow tiles on the board) the amount of strike damage she generates should be about equal to R&G. I guess its because R&G plays well with Xforce whereas she does not and a lot of times I try not to bring 4hor to moderately hard PvE nodes (to save kits) and his is one of the better available blue abilities.
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    On offense 5 red sometimes did enough damage to down someone with Xforce + Razor's Edge (or Surgical + Skull Cracker + Razor's Edge). 5 red did about 2500 damage where 3 would be around 1350 I think, a lot of times I was downing people with around 2k life with it.

    12 AP feels like a lot to not have an immediate effect. I'm not sure why I'm so biased toward classifying her black as terrible whereas I consider Groot's 11 AP to be really good. If she's tanking 3 colors on average (assuming there are 7 yellow tiles on the board) the amount of strike damage she generates should be about equal to R&G. I guess its because R&G plays well with Xforce whereas she does not and a lot of times I try not to bring 4hor to moderately hard PvE nodes (to save kits) and his is one of the better available blue abilities.

    Yeah, this makes sense when you use a team like GT / XF / Gamora because xor are just so efficient that they'll deal the bulk of the damage, reducing Gamora's role more to cleanup with her red since its cheap. This isn't the case in heroics, where the character pool might be such that Gamora's black is the only way you'll deal enough sustained damage to win out a match. I remember Torch in the previous heroic filling this role exactly. Most of the games vs scaled Ares / Juggernaut, I would hoard green until I had 14 or so green, then use Torch's flame jet + a bunch of spidey stuns to win me the game. Yeah, if you could use X-Force in the heroic then that's obviously better, but when you don't have access to hyper efficient direct damage spells such as smite or X-Force, sometimes the best way to win is through slower, sustained damage spells such as Gamora black. Gamora black doesn't have immediate value in the sense that it doesn't do any damage, but I could see a viable strategy in heroics be to hoard skills until you get 12 black, then cast Gamora's black immediately followed by a bunch of other spells (such as wind storm, etc) which will generate immediate value. Like Torch's green, Gamora's black is just one of those skills that has the potential to be hyper efficient in longer games, so it seems like the superior choice assuming the team compositions work out.
  • Having killed countless 249 Gamoras I can say with certainty mine is remaining at level 75 for good.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    On offense 5 red sometimes did enough damage to down someone with Xforce + Razor's Edge (or Surgical + Skull Cracker + Razor's Edge). 5 red did about 2500 damage where 3 would be around 1350 I think, a lot of times I was downing people with around 2k life with it.

    12 AP feels like a lot to not have an immediate effect. I'm not sure why I'm so biased toward classifying her black as terrible whereas I consider Groot's 11 AP to be really good. If she's tanking 3 colors on average (assuming there are 7 yellow tiles on the board) the amount of strike damage she generates should be about equal to R&G. I guess its because R&G plays well with Xforce whereas she does not and a lot of times I try not to bring 4hor to moderately hard PvE nodes (to save kits) and his is one of the better available blue abilities.

    I remember Torch in the previous heroic filling this role exactly. Most of the games vs scaled Ares / Juggernaut, I would hoard green until I had 14 or so green, then use Torch's flame jet + a bunch of spidey stuns to win me the game. quote]

    See I went with and will always stay 5/4/4 Human Torch because it honestly IMO is the best build as it actually averages more damage then the other 2 even though a 5/3/5 or a 5/5/3 would do more damage in case specific games.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    I had lots of fun with my level 166 5/4/4 Gamora in her PvP. That two turn stun came in handy a lot. I'll probably keep green at 5, but I am undecided how to do with the black and red though.
    I'll probably only bring her out when boosted though, so maybe 5 black is the way to go after all...
  • NorthernPolarityNorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    See I went with and will always stay 5/4/4 Human Torch because it honestly IMO is the best build as it actually averages more damage then the other 2 even though a 5/3/5 or a 5/5/3 would do more damage in case specific games.

    Meh, it's a matter of preference. I was pretty happy with my 5/3/5 build during the heroic since i was always hoarding blue AP, and didn't want to cast inferno because it would drain my blue AP. Infernos tended to only do ~3-4k damage for me anyways, which wasn't worth the hassle of draining all that stun AP.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    See I went with and will always stay 5/4/4 Human Torch because it honestly IMO is the best build as it actually averages more damage then the other 2 even though a 5/3/5 or a 5/5/3 would do more damage in case specific games.

    Meh, it's a matter of preference. I was pretty happy with my 5/3/5 build during the heroic since i was always hoarding blue AP, and didn't want to cast inferno because it would drain my blue AP. Infernos tended to only do ~3-4k damage for me anyways, which wasn't worth the hassle of draining all that stun AP.

    I will agree with your earlier post, I think 5/3/5 is the way to run Gamora. You lose 794 damage per red strike, however, it would essentially take you 15 red AP at max level to out do a level 5 Skull Cracker so IMO Skull Cracker > Razor's Edge

    Now Looking at Black lets compare a x/3/5 vs an x/5/3. Since Skull Cracker is already better we don't need to compare a 3/5/5 because we know Green is better over red.

    If you saved up your red AP waiting for Black and lets' assume some things. If she tanks 2 colors she averages 4.75 tiles, if she tanks 3 colors she averages 6.75 so lets say she averages 6 tiles per Bad Reputation. Thats either 80*6 or 148*6

    So you can eithe radd 480 to 1719 Razor's Edge's or you can add 888 to 924

    So at that point it sure looks like 5/5/3 is the way to go since 2199 is greater than 1812, however you need to add the match damage at end of turn, which then adds 888 to 1812 and only 480 to 2199

    5/5/3--2679
    5/3/5--2700

    Not to mention every match after is doing 408 more damage.

    Just read NP's earlier post he is spot on with his assumptions.

    Furthermore, if you want to do the whole Guardians of the Galaxy lineup. we know this

    Grocket---5/3/5 is the way to go
    StarLord--5/3/5 is the way to go

    If you put Gamora 5/3/5 you have all 6 colors, Starlord is your active yellow/red user. Gamora is your active green/black and Grocket takes blue plus this.

    Gamora--tanks green/red/black
    Grocket--tanks yellow, blue
    SL--tanks purple

    With this lineup you can get the full use out of Gamora and do some fun things.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I think 5/3/5 is the way to run Gamora. You lose 794 damage per red strike, however, it would essentially take you 15 red AP at max level to out do a level 5 Skull Cracker so IMO Skull Cracker > Razor's Edge
    Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here, or are you actually saying green is better than red because green at 5 is more efficient than red at 3?
  • AronditeArondite Age Unconfirmed Posts: 1,188 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I think 5/3/5 is the way to run Gamora. You lose 794 damage per red strike, however, it would essentially take you 15 red AP at max level to out do a level 5 Skull Cracker so IMO Skull Cracker > Razor's Edge
    Am I misunderstanding what you're saying here, or are you actually saying green is better than red because green at 5 is more efficient than red at 3?

    No, I don't think he is.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Arondite wrote:
    No, I don't think he is.
    I don't get the math that says one skull cracker = 3 razor's edge
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    Arondite wrote:
    No, I don't think he is.
    I don't get the math that says one skull cracker = 3 razor's edge

    Skull Cracker does 1148 to each enemy

    Razor's Edge does 1719 to one enemy.

    It would take 3 Razor's Edge to equal or exceed the damage of 1 Skull Cracker. The only time Razor's Edge is better is when there is only 1 opponent left, because even if 2, you have 2 free turns of damage to add on
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