Hey D3 I'm done and here's why.....

LegendReborn

Well said. I often forget about pve helping my progression because most covers coming out of it are to new characters rather than helping my actual progression. Getting top ten in pve doesn't do much for progression if pve is clogged up with new characters half the time. Hell, I mainly view pve as my method of not losing hp for my single eight hour pvp shield each event.

Unknown

1. No one likes the rate of new characters. Or at least most.

2. The odds are terribble to get 3*'s in packs and tokens BC the worse the odds, the more ppl buy. If ppl would buy less when the rates got worse, supposedly, we'd still have at least one guaranteed 3* in 10 packs.

3. If you spent $250 and that's your roster, unfortunately, it was not invested correctly. That could be just BC you bought in smaller chunks and therefore better investing strategies were not an option.

4. I think a lot of people agree with the difficulty of transitioning. In some ways it's harder now, in some ways it's not. The problem is finding a solution that is fair to everyone. Which I'm not sure the current system is unfair as it's reputation. The mentality is I'm the one not getting rewards. However, most people aren't going to get a 3*, although more ppl get 3*'s in the past. So as in any contest, most people aren't going to win. The problem with the mentality, is the entitlement attitude that because I tried and I need a 3* I should be guaranteed a 3*. You can dress it up in any way you want "opportunity" "easier opponents" etc. The message is the same, I want a 3*, give me one because I want one. Is there a fairer way for everyone? Hopefully.

5. We can all agree transitioning has been and is difficult. Im always torn on the issue. One hand, the more new players that stick around, the healthier the game is. At the same time, veteran players should not be punished because they have invested more time and effort into the game. It's a quagmire, and it seems whether the developers take a balanced approach, or favor one group over another, someone is not going to be happy. I often see both groups unhappy, so this leads me to believe it is kind of balanced with room for continued improvement.

6. Rewards. There seems to be two factions among transitioning players. They seem to want the best characters only or they want the covers to complete whatever 3*'s they have. I still think simultaneous pvp's where players can only enter one of the pvp's is the way to go. Whether each PvP just has different rewards, or there's a PvP for only v1*'s, one for only 1 and 2*'s, and v one for any character, both options have their benefits. I would say if one PvP is going to be harder than the other in should have better rewards to entice veterans from going to selecting the other event.

7. I don't like to see any one leave the game because of bad experience. I hope they continue to make the game more enjoyable. Whether it's pve node refreshes that players don't have to plan their day around, friendlier end times for players, or more covers and iso (I said more demiurge_will, not double or some crazy amount, so this should still keep in line with getting covers and leveling hard work and satisfying.). I think they're current adventurous state of trying changes will lead to a better overall experience by players. The bottom line is player retention and good PR from said players is the best way to get new spenders aka customers aka players.

Square

I don't know why people spend so much. I spent $25 four months ago, and another $7 when the anniversary came. I have one 166 3*, a 221 4*, and a lot of 9-12 cover 3*s moving their way up.

I can imagine how people want to leapfrog early on, but you really don't need to spend money on the game. The main reason I did was 1) to open up a lot of slots early on and then 2) to actually pay for a game I'd put dozens and dozens and dozens of hours into. Seemed fair.

I respect that the OP wants to drop out, but to anyone else reading that, don't let that be you. Be conservative, never ever buy health packs, play smart! And always have fun!

LegendReborn

It's hardly a case of transitioning players saying gimmie stuff because I want more stuff. Transitioning players have been hit hard with whatever matchmaking changes have been made combined with the fact that hard-core players are reinvigorated to place highly in pvp thanks to lady Thor.

Like I said previously, the pvp landscape went from me being able to get two to three covers each pvp to only eeking by with one. Additionally, that was back when I relied one hundred percent on my two stars.

Wonko33

just before anniversary week I started a Steam account (I usually play on IOS). I wanted to see the PC version and wanted to see how using what I know now could improve my early decision.

I think that it is now easier to build a strong 2* roster, but the 2 --> 3 transition is a nightmare.

The rewards are better in Prologue, there are cover rewards just to play PvP and the smallest effort in PVE and PvP will yield decent 2*, but all the 3* i have are single covered, there are so many of them that I just can't improve one. I remember a few months back, I was hitting Patch and Punisher a lot with my gold tokens so I was able to have 2 strong characters to start winning more in PvE. Even now the only reason I can stay afloat is because I'm in a top 100 alliance, so doubling covers really helps.

I think recent and casual players really have solid grounds to complain, Us 8-12 months people had it much easier

mjh

While overall I agree with the OP, spending $250 and having nothing to show for it is your own fault.

It really is a marathon, not a race. I am now part of that 166 wall and here is my brief journey.
http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17663

Dauthi

_RiO_ wrote:

arktos1971 wrote:

_RiO_ wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

What I used to do with my 2s is join pvp with about 45 minutes left ( grab seed teams when PvP starts but don't play any matches). I can usually get top 100 with my **** phone roster doing that.

Brackets no longer fill based purely on join time. Joining PvP with 45 minutes left will still put you into a partially filled bracket with a 2000pt leader. The way you used to game the system no longer works.

Really ? How did you find out ?

Trying it out, mostly. And I'm not the only one.
(Note that I'm not going to make any claims as to what other components are now part of the decisions that go into bracketing.)

It's not just you, I have been doing this for some time and preached it to my alliance. With the new change in PVP it seems it has been taken out. I think I got the worst bracket ever by starting late while starting early gave me a decent bracket last pvp.

On a side note, I have been playing for a year and have only spent 5$ on my roster, and that was at the very beginning for more space. The fun of the game is watching your roster progress, so I don't understand artificially growing it with cash. I guess if you are used to it growing rapidly with your own money, the standard rate of progress isn't good enough.

GothicKratos

I'm with mohio here, I pretty frequently jump into PvPs pretty late, simply because my work schedule doesn't allow me to grind them out and I don't have the roster to climb high enough in one go to shield, but I almost always walk away with at least a cover (and managed to get two covers at least three times).

PvE is about the same, but if I don't have the essential, it's usually pointless - matter of fact I merely got lucky this time around and managed to get 2* Marvel in the Progression Token, and went from 180-something to 57 (i.e. just barely missing out on two covers), because I was in a pretty barren bracket. That being said, if I have the Essential, if I join in the last third of the event, I can almost always get at least one cover.

ballingbees

There's a gambler in everyone, after all we are all putting something on the table to win something we want. In plain terms, we're betting our time, and sometimes money, sometimes more, in return for that dopamine Heat.

Spending money on a game may sound unwise, $250 may sound like quite a bit. But if you consider the other things you could have lost.. first is money, then sleep(health), friends(social life), job, bf/gf/husband/wife, it gets rougher the deeper you descend into the gamblilng spiral. Losing some money is not all that bad after all. So I applaud the OP, it takes a sane man with a pair to know when to walk away. Walk away and try your hand at another table. Maybe come round again when the luck changes. Hope to see you back when they release Gambit as the 99th character at 1250HP per slot.

from a fellow transitioning gambler. Despite strictly ftp, i'm gambling heavily on my wife's patience.

homeinvasion

the whole reward structure sucks massive black tinykittys!

they actually don't realize how unforgiving the 3 star transition is.

Unknown

I can fully understand the OP here.
A lot of those, who are stating like "why not having at least one 166 3*" are most likely players with a record of more than 6 month play time.
For the starters here, still having below 100 days in the game, it is a very different view. We never had the opportunity to gain a couple of covers wihtin a couple of weeks for the same char. And then, you first need to get the points to stay in a top 100 position for a cover.
As in the early days of the game, this was fairly easy, it is in fact becoming harder. Many vets told me, that having 2*Mags/Storm should be very easy to get top 100 position and be very good for 600+ points.
When i got to the point, having those two chars maxed, i found out, that at about 550 points i faced a wall of players transitioning deep into 3* land. Pure logic, as more and more older players max their covers and more and more players are in the game.
Next thing, i was lucky enough, to get almost all LThor covers out of the huge amount of money (rediculous, i will never tell my wife) and Hood, too, so that i, only by chance, had the opportunity to raise a strong set.
I got told again, that it is fairly easy to hit top 25 position with LThor max and Hood support. Yes, well... I found out, that in fact, LThor/Hood is not often under attack. Most seem to skip, compared to any 2* full grown crew. For me, i have my joy, if i see any 94 2*s, as they are as easy to chew as cheese. Yummy. The next thing, i found out, is the huge 166 wall around 650 to 700 points in the PvPs, you cant beat. So, the promised top 25 position and guaranteed "you win 2 3* covers button" is obviously not working with one 166 LThor and a Hood trying to build up. Exspecially not, if you lack the covers for the PvP supported char...
Oh, and i found out one more thing. As i always liked PvE, couple of different node rewards, achievable progression rewards, unlike in PvP, where i will only earn 1300 points reward the day, the sun is shining in my butt, has faded out due to me having one maxed lvl 3* character. ****. Now there was the option of burning Health Packs on PvP or PvE...
Things eased up a bit, as Hood grew up, but PvE is still no fun. I was waiting for Blade. Looked good. Looked, like it was a head start for vets and me, to raise a good new char in parallel. I started farming, as often, as i could from the early beginning. The essential nodes, the easy nodes, always juggling the health pack issue and the PvP requirements by my alliance.
I managed all time to stay in top 50. Hell, the last evening, before i had to go to bed, i conquered my way on position 6, when i finally fell asleep with less than 7 hours on the PvE overall timer. When i woke up, i was first time ever, out of top 50 of the PvE.
Well, now that i read here, that there are people proud of missing two entire days and ending up top 10 with essential nodes only, i get enraged, green skin and a ton of muscles and even a better understanding of the OP. Not even, that this is way out of balanced, or to say fubar (**** up beyond all reckognition), it takes the entire fun out of PvE and scares me away from it, as it has been boring enough to fight Daken, Rags, Moonstone and Yelena a gazillion times.
Next, i predict, that this will not change. All of the vets stating, that life is oh so easy and covers so lightly earned, i bet, you already have a nice lvl 270 X-Force, a shiny 270 Nick Fury and in a couple days most likely as well a brand new Thorina at 270, too, whereas I, by then, will be part of the big 166 gang behind, never be able to compete up there and even more blocking what coming from below.
And due to the rarity of covers, the hard way to grind Iso to max a char and the speed, at which new chars are given out, this problem will/might kill the game in a couple months. And for sure, i will never have the opportunity, to pile up Iso and HP, so that i can win all three blade covers in PvE and have a couple minutes later a fully leveled , shiny 166 Blade in my roster, like some of you vets can and have done.

I, for my self, have put in way to much money to draw back now. As well as i like the puzzle and collecting covers and enjoy myself, playing up in the living room on the touch pad, with the family, rather than grindind xp for WoW or EQ for hours and hours. But i kissed the dream good night, to be in any way competitive in this game at some time, as i right now face the full blown 166 wall and the even worse beginning of the 270 wall...

Wolarsen

Freemium games are usually superpolarized between time spent / money spent.

I have paid like 10 eur, early in the game for slots. After around 250 days I have 5 maxed chars, 5 full-covered and 5 with 12 covers. But I have put a considerable amount of time on the game for the last 3 months or so, so much that I burned out and I am currently trying to chill out.

I find 250$ way too much to spend in a game (you get a full year of subscription to Warcaft for half that money!), but I doubt that I have pumped less than 400 hours into the game, some sneaked from family and work, because it was mandatory to keep a moderate top25 personal/top100 alliance. I find the game has been quite expensive to me.

Pylgrim

Don't know how have you played to have spent 250 and have such a poor rooster. I've only spent a total of $30 over a year and I have several 166s and almost every other 3* is above 100, including a full cast of maxed 2*s (sans the ****, Moonstone, Bullseye and Bagman). And sure, it's a pain when a character you don't have is essential in PVE. It just happened to me in the Blade one, I never got a Ms. Marvel but until the end of the event. I still got 80k points and placed top 50 which is 2 out of the 3 Blade covers.

As for the 166 teams in PVP that's an MMR spike that happens when you start abandoning the 2* land and becoming a transition player. It sucks horribly, but you just have to try your best, lose a lot and after a couple PVPs your MMR should stabilise around what you can do.

Unknown

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

While overall I agree with the OP, spending $250 and having nothing to show for it is your own fault.

It really is a marathon, not a race. I am now part of that 166 wall and here is my brief journey.
http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17663

Yeah, if all of $250 were all used to buy ISOs, then it's really a bad decision. It should be on HPs.

Unknown

I hope they find a new way to launch new chars. I really feel overwhelmed and blocked here. Overwhelmed of new characters and blocked out of my transition. While stephen said that many people keep asking for 3* covers, I want to say, isn't that why we are playing? I am literally denied progress here. PVE has had 3 new chars in the last 4 PVEs. The only char that was not new in PVE rewards was Rogers on the Anniversary Venom Heroic. After that we have been hit by a New Character wave of PVEs.

Find another way to release new chars. Go ahead and release them in PVP as top rank rewards. IMHO it would make way more sense than releasing them in PVE. New covers are for developed rosters and developed rosters play mostly PVP. Release PVE from this New Char nightmare. I want to progress my covers without getting beaten multiple times in 5 mins and getting thrown out of T100 in the last minutes in PVP.

AXP_isme

It is difficult and it does seem like there should be a better way of targeting specific progression (as someone suggested a choice of pvp events/rewards seems very sensible). When you're in 2* land the sheer number of 3*s and low probability of getting any specific one make progress very slow and make it expensive to maintain a roster that allows you to maximise your chances of progress. There are options, additional tiers of characters 3/4/5..or splitting up the the tokens into different types (hero tokens and villain tokens for instance) are just two that would allow transitioning players to focus a bit more and reduce the time during transition.
As far as the wall of 166s go, again I agree it feels like a problem but I think that's coupled to the overall rate of progression. The answers to that are MMR and sharding, dirty words around here. Any combination of more specific sharding or matchmaking that pairs you only against people with roughly equivalent roster strengths, more 3* rewards or a mechanism to target subsets of 3*s in the reward structure should make progression feel less like a chore.
To illustrate a point, as a f2p player I have only 3 ways to get covers pve, pvp and tokens. Pve is almost always new characters so let's use that as an example. Imagine I finish the latest pve with 2 covers of a new 3*, there's probably a progression award in the next pve and 1 cover to be had in the pvp that will run at the same time, as a transitioning player any more than 1 cover in pvp is out of reach. Most people can't be in a t100 alliance so assume you don't get those. Within the first two weeks I now have approx 4 covers for the new character and they're probably level 55, practically useless except where they're buffed. There's a good chance that character won't end up in another pve ever, assume they come back in 4 months (unlikely admittedly) that gives me 3x covers every 4 months. Now in pvp there are 10 ish events per season so assume you can get another cover every 2 months. As for tokens there's a sub 1% chance of getting that 3* in any given token. Imagine you earn 40 tokens per month that gives you one cover every 2.5 months. So after the first 2 weeks I have 4 covers and I need 9 more. On these time frames (as optimistic as they are) it takes about 7 months to get them to 13 covers. That's about the best you can hope for in the transition and, as the number of 3*s goes up, those timelines go out and with the incremental cost of the roster slots, that you need to maintain under this model, progress basically grinds to a halt.
Unless you can target specific covers, or the rewards are much more generous, the impact of increasing the size of the character base with the frequency that it's happening today is to stretch the transition out almost indefinitely. It probably works well for the vets since they can target the new characters and have 8 covers after 2 weeks and the whales will just buy the covers, again that's fine, it's their choice, but people coming late to the game will find transitioning a very painful, slow, unrewarding process.
Rant over...

Wonko33

yeah I agree with many of you about the money, it should only be spent on HP

and HP should go for covers not tokens. (the last 2 seasons have proven that to me with horrible 10-packs)

for about 9 months I only paid 5 dollars for roster spots but I spent about 50 lately, I wanted to get the daily 50hp anniversary tokens(the only time I felt the price was fair on a token)
And I wanted to try a certain combo, now I could have waited maybe a few months to get the combo but I got a gift itunes card and though it was time to send some money to a game I've played extensively.

It does feel a bit cheap, i used to be proud of my "all earned roster" but after Gauntlet I started to explore "not optimized" but fun combos and I didn't feel like waiting.

y2fitzy

I think the comments along the lines of "I only spent 30 quid and I have X-Force maxed eight times" aren't particularly helpful. There are plenty of different ways to put your money into this game, turns out the OP made a few decisions that he wouldn't repeat. That's kind of the point of the thread, after all...

Anyone, there's a clear divergence between the vets who were able to max a select number of 3*s quicker, compared to those of us in the transition now who probable have 10-20 3*s with a handful of covers, not doing a vast amount beyond sitting there, just in case they are essential in a PVE or two

I have spent a bit on the game so far, about £40 I guess, in the three months I've been playing. I'm now in the position that I will buy some HP at the start of the season for shielding/roster slots, and that will have to last me. As a euro player, it's basically not possible to get top 100 in PVP without shielding, so I've made my peace with the need to do that

Similarly, I know that the transition will take a long time. now have two characters with enough covers that I can take past level 100 but I'm keeping them at 94. Yes PVE is a grind but I seem to do ok from it, so I will keep my scaling modest there and actually enjoy the rewards

Best of luck to the OP, I can understand why you'd want to jack it in. I have had a few moments considering it of late, but this game is still less of a drain on my wallet, time and sanity than war of Heroes, Battle of the Atom or Avengers Alliance. And it seems I need to have some form of comic game in my life, so I'm stuck with this one for a while!

Unknown

Thanks for those who responded in support and can empathize through the 2 to 3* land transition. Gonna respond to a few points to flesh out my side of things.

Couple of data points : i started in late May; i was in a 5 man alliance for the first two months or thereabouts; around late july/august i helped form and coalesce a larger 20 person alliance; my 2* roster of maxed 94's consists of OBW, Wolvie, Magneto, Storm, Thor, and Ares. I have a roster of 48 toons (48 slots opened, which means they cost about 700 HP a pop now).

-the $250. - i spent probably about $150 in the first 2 months of my starting, and they mainly went to hero packs and roster slots. i did the math around then it came down to about $25 for each hero packs, or roughly $2.50 per card/pull. I'd have to guess i bought about 3-5 hero packs or event packs at the start. My reasoning was simple in that I had zero toons to work and this would help me start up. I was really enjoying the game at the time. So pretty much each new card I got at that time was a new toon or cover that helped build a toon. None of it went to waste. Also keep in mind the alliance I was in at the time hovered in the 550s. So i wasn't getting anything of substance hero points wise from them. Money helped build my roster. Some of that money also went to help build an alliance later on, since I bought a couple of the larger slots (the 2K one namely). I only bought one 5x health pack, never bought boosts. The rest of that money went to opening up roster slots. I never bought ISO. I actually didn't buy any covers and haven't dropped a dime in the game for a few months.

When I say I regret the money i dropped, this is going to be hard to really perfectly express. I got a lot of playing time out of the game, I didn't buy any other games during that time and foregoed other money activities to play MPQ (thereby saving money). So in a sense i got my money's worth. Of course i wish i hadn't spent as much money it would be nice to have it back; especially with the game changes. I also am not going to the poor house or anything. I, also at the time, wanted to "support the devs" for a product i was thoroughly enjoying.

Now, the main regret is how they've been reacting to events and really changing how progression happens for players. That annoys me to no end. In that sense how they've changed things and to a lesser sense the amount i spent for the current day product, is really where my disappointment comes in. The game has changed and in too negative of a way for a transitioning player. It seems as if they dont have a steady hand on the till directing the ship; or aren't taking into account people in my phase. Some major changes (ie no more NPCS Bacon_Magic that you face on beginning opening rounds of PVP) and the creation of the lvl 166 wall, (by removing the shielded from the pool MAJORLY impacted my gameplay). None of these were announced; they were just done. Am sure there was a Dev discussion saying in order to fix problem X we need to do Y. Unfortunately consequence Z happened and I dont think they ever fully appreciated how that impacts some folks. If some of those changes hadn't happened, I probably would never have dropped this post.

I think many of you are fixated on the money when really my complaint is how the transitional phase keeps getting borked. That really is my main complaint here I have a very slim avenue to progress or get better cards; and that method is continually shrinking by changes that D3 is doing.

Unknown

I completely agree with you. And like everything else is not enough, the T50 does not give 2 covers any more. T25 does not give 3 covers either. The top rewards are broken in some nonsense ranks: 1-2, 2-5, 5-10, 10-25, 25-50, 50-100. #99 is the same with #26 except that you get a 25 HP more and some ISO.

Do the devs even play the game? Do you, devs, happen to know the difference from finishing T100 and finishing T50? Apparently you have no idea how much grinding it takes in those last hours and how much luck in order not to get hit and be thrown out of T100 completely. Not to mention living in the EU where my last 8 hrs are in the mercy of crazy US players that can grind them nodes.

What the heck are all these secret changes supposed to mean D3? Why change everything towards slowing down the covers given?

I think you don't understand your statistics very well. There are more people now getting in the T100 than before. Top places are flooded with 2k+ points. This comes as a combination of Sentry and shields. Your statistics show that more players break the barriers and get covers. Have you ever stopped to check some of those player's rosters? ALL of the top 25 finishing players mostly go there because they want a good score in their season to get Thoress or they are going for #1 for the 4* cover.

While this happens, people that need those 3* covers are getting screwed hard. Did you stop and check the statistics of sold 3* covers after each PVP? I think you'll be suprised that very few people actually keep them. What you are doing is shrinking the cover rewards further to the top, where they are less needed.

When will you understand that putting 4* covers as alliance rewards for seasons screws over transitioning players? Can't you come up with some new way to introduce new covers without interfering with people trying to grab some of the old ones in order to get a break in this game?

It is terrible the way the covers are so squeezed and the way they are just shredded into 500 ISO after the events because big sharks aim for the 4* and the rest of the people that need those 3* get pushed further back or completely out of T100.

I would be OK if we at least had some tokens that gave out 3* + covers, but instead we are stuck with the ones that now don't include 2 of the characters I have 7 covers on. The troll never stops.