*** Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) ***

FaustianDeal

The theme-appropriate concept they introduced with the games other Doctor (Doom) makes even more sense with Ock. An Active/Passive ability makes a lot of sense. Seems like all those extra arms makes Ock a great candidate for an Active/Passive ability.

Unknown

Since the introduction of Active/Passives I am really surprised it hasn't been used more. It's a neat concept to add something to a power or to clearly show the secondary effects of powers.

Mikaveus

Repackage him as Omega Red. Even without touching his powers, he'll feel twice as good.

konannfriends

dkffiv wrote:

Doc Oc / DD / Captain Marvel need to punish the hell out of the enemy team for causing their abilities to proc considering that the average team may not even have abilities to create them. Specialized counters > neutered abilities that barely pull their weight when their conditions are present.

not sure if you meant it in this way but. i also think that Captain Marvels yellow ability could use a slight damage tweak at max level it takes 639 damage to get it to go off. i think it should go down to 450.
also the same for deadpool it should go off if the team mat takes around 650 damage

konannfriends

dkffiv wrote:

Doc Oc / DD / Captain Marvel need to punish the hell out of the enemy team for causing their abilities to proc considering that the average team may not even have abilities to create them. Specialized counters > neutered abilities that barely pull their weight when their conditions are present.

not sure if you meant it in this way but. i also think that Captain Marvels yellow ability could use a slight damage tweak at max level it takes 639 damage to get it to go off. i think it should go down to 450.
also the same for deadpool it should go off if the team mat takes around 650 damage

ronin_san

I'm very much in favor of getting passives that cause the character to lash out, riposte, or dodge. Spider-Man deserved Hawkeye's dodge.

Doctor Octopus deserves a passive arm flail, because even when he's focused, the tentacles can still defend him. Maybe it's when he's setting a trap (eg Bagneto's red tile). It's a common occurrence for someone to be backhanded by the octo-arms when he's wiring, welding, soldering, mixing chemicals, etc...

What if he got a Blade-like ability that put down tiles every turn. No matter what, instead of insult to injury. Then factor in the timer tile that does the passive riposte and explodes. While he's working on his Master Plan, as-it-were, attacks to Octopus cause a riposte of all the attack tiles on the board? Oh man. I like that A LOT.

And I agree that his tile swap ability should be Loki-grade. If you bundled those 3 abilities, I think he'd see great usability.

Passive Blade-like attack tile procs.
Master Plan eg Bagneto Red. While the timer is on the board, attacks to Doc Ock riposte the attack tiles from the
Loki-grade tile swap that destroys enemy tiles and adds another tile per destruction. Or maybe it does CMAGS dmg.

Tannen

Pylgrim wrote:

But currently his ability swaps 8 pairs (16 tiles). Have you had the chance to use it, even against special tile-spammers such as Daken? You are still more likely not to get a special tile than getting one; 24 tiles is still only a bit more than a third of the total tiles in the board. Moreover, you'd have to commit to at least 4 covers in order to get the 12, which depending on how you use the other two abilities, you may not want to do.

My apologies. I assumed that (given he is "stealing resources") you meant he would ONLY swap special tiles when using blue. Re-reading it, I can see that you meant swap ANY tiles. In which case the number is fine.

Cheers.

Phaserhawk

Hey All

Miles from Demiurge here to let you know about some new character updates that are coming soon to Marvel Puzzle Quest.

Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) - Coming 4/17/15
Doctor Octopus is an interesting take on a utility character. He manipulates the game board and reacts to actions instead of directly damaging other characters. He has a huge breadth of ability effects, but there are a lot of times when only a few of those effects are useful. We wanted to really focus on increasing the usefulness of his different powers with this update.

Old Max Health: 6,800
New Max Health: 8,670

Manipulation - Cost: 11 Blue AP - OLD
Dr. Octavius reaches out with his mechanical arms to use controls and devices, smashing enemy plans easily. Swaps 8 pairs of random tiles, destroying any swapped enemy Attack tiles, and dealing 110 damage for each tile destroyed.
Upgrades:

2. Also destroys enemy Strike tiles. 3. Deals 146 damage per tile destroyed. 4. Also destroys enemy Protect tiles. 5. Destroys any enemy special tile. MAX LV 5: Deals 463 damage per tile destroyed.

Manipulation - Cost: 11 Blue AP - NEW
Dr. Octavius reaches out with his mechanical arms to use controls and devices, smashing enemy plans easily. Swaps 16 pairs of random tiles, destroying any swapped enemy Attack tiles, and dealing 110 damage for each tile destroyed.
Upgrades:

2. Also destroys enemy Strike tiles. 3. Deals 117 damage per tile destroyed. 4. Also destroys enemy Protect tiles. 5. Deals 330 damage per tile destroyed. MAX LV 5: Deals 1044 damage per tile destroyed.

Insult to Injury - NO CHANGE

Armed and Dangerous - Cost: 12 Green AP - OLD
The full fury of Doctor Octopus is unleashed as his metal arms strike, constrict and mangle all his opponents at once. Deals 82 damage to all enemies, then stuns a random enemy for 1 turn, destroys 1 AP of the enemy’s strongest color, and destroys a random enemy Countdown tile.
Upgrades:

2. Deals 164 damage to the enemy team 3. Destroys 3 AP of the enemy’s strongest color 4. Stun a random enemy for 2 turns. 5. Deals 246 damage to all enemies, stuns a random enemy for 3 turns, and destroys 5 enemy AP. MAX LV 5: Deals 783 damage to all enemies, then stuns a random enemy for 3 turns, destroys 5 AP of the enemy’s strongest color, and destroys a random enemy Countdown tile.

Armed and Dangerous - 12 Green AP - NEW
Doctor Octopus’ metal arms strike, constrict and mangle all his opponents at once. Deals 268 damage to all enemies, then stuns a random enemy for 1 turn, strengthens a random friendly special tile by 16, and steals 1 enemy Green AP.
Upgrades:

2. Strengthens a random friendly special tile by 40. 3. Deals 354 damage to all enemies. 4. Stuns a random enemy for 2 turns. Strengthens a random friendly special tile by 57. 5. Deals 477 damage to all enemies. Steals 2 enemy Green AP. MAX LV 5: Deals 1517 damage to all enemies, then stuns a random enemy for 2 turns, strengthens a random friendly special tile by 185, and steals 2 enemy Green AP.

[Extracted from original post. It and further discussion on the change can be found here].

***
Original post:

The buff will definitely help Doc's Quality of life, and he will become a good niche PvE character.

I'm sorta torn on how to build him, mine's 5/3/5 just the way the covers fell. I don't like now that he can't destroy CD tiles or web tiles, in fact I'm noticing Across the board that's happening just look at She-Hulk (good news for Star-Lord) But now Doc Ock grabs 32 tiles so he is going to grab 1/2 the board now so you have a 50/50 shot of destroying tiles on the board with a 1044 dmg per tile this could really be nice

Armed and Dangerous got better and worse at the same time. More damage, less stun, no AP or CD tile instruction, but gained green steal and buff a random tile and what's interesting is that if you don't go 5 you really make the skill worthless as getting the AP steal helps mitigate the cost.

Honestly not sure what the best build is for this guy while black is good, you it only triggers on matches not off of blue which stinks, this needs at minimum 4 though to get the 2 tiles. I think 3/5/5 or 4/4/5 will be the way to go. While the huge dmg boost to Manipulation is nice, the odds of you getting 11 blue AP and hope there are enough tiles on the board to make it worth it isn't going to be very likely.

You can make him Anti-Blade/Daken and go 5/5/3, but since he's basically a very niche PvE or Heroics and with the rise of IW, Fury and stil 4hor even in PvP you are going to have better outlets for blue, green will save you more in Heroics. I think Manipulation is essentially a really expensive Illusions that might do damage, because against anyone that doesn't have special tiles it's a waste, I think 3/5/5 is the way to go for him or 4/4/5.

Marc_Spector

Good analysis. I do enjoy using Doc Ock against certain teams, and I'm personally keeping mine 3/5/5 -- I'd be okay with the increased 50/50 chance of effect on blue if the cost were slightly lower, but I'm still irked about blue's cost:value ratio more than almost any other ability in the game.

dkffiv

I'm thinking 4/5/4, just got him that way with dpdq. I'm bringing him to mid level blade/daken/cage/if nodes where his black is useful. 4 blue would let you bring him to falcon/cmag nodes and the only difference between 4+5 covers is a little damage (and +1 AP on green). So far I've never used either of those abilities but black is proccing a lot. If he's featured in PvP I think 4+ green is a lot more useful than 5 blue

simonsez

I have to disagree here. This guy is the ultimate niche character. The only time you'd ever want to use him is to go 5/5/3 and put him in against tile spam like hail storm, Bird Strike or Coercive Field, do massive damage and probably generate some attack tiles during the swaps. I don't see why you'd want to build him with anything else in mind.

Unknown

3/5/5 is still the way to go. His blue is less bad than it was, but it's still his worst skill. He's highly usable in survival nodes, especially when paired with strike tile generators, and my main use for him going forward is still going to be teaming him with Falcon and Daken when there are better uses for blue and no other green outlet.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

I have to disagree here. This guy is the ultimate niche character. The only time you'd ever want to use him is to go 5/5/3 and put him in against tile spam like hail storm, Bird Strike or Coercive Field, do massive damage and probably generate some attack tiles during the swaps. I don't see why you'd want to build him with anything else in mind.

Because I don't want a 2 skill character.

All of his skills require 4 to be decent, he's actually a rarity there as most 4 cover upgrades suck, his don't.

Blue at 4--you get to destroy protect tiles

Black at 4--you get an extra attack tile

Green at 4--you get more stun and can tile boost.

So that leaves you with 1 cover.

Now if someone opts 5/4/4, 4/5/4, or 4/4/5 I would have no issue with that, but to me Doc Ock is a 4 cover all around. Here's one more thing about blue though. Take the damage it says and 1/2 it because those are the odds you grab that tile.

Now I was going to go 3/5/5, but decided being able to blow up protect tiles and do damage from them was worth the 391 dmg and the 1 ap from green. This gives me more options against Bullseye and Daken as we see them the most

Furthermore, in PvP when he's featured, blue will most likely be worthless and green is going to probably do Thor type AoE boosted, but playing Gamora enough has made me realize that a random 2 turn stun with a small amount of AoE hurts so IMO the only 3 builds for him are

5/4/4, 4/5/4, or 4/4/5...pick one

Edit:
Although 1 arguement for 3/5/5 is that you many times are better off matching the tiles yourself then the onetime damage that blue provides. Every tile you match outstrips blue in damage in 2.7 turns, or in other words, at the 3rd end phase of your turn you have done more damage.

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

Edit:
Although 1 arguement for 3/5/5 is that you many times are better off matching the tiles yourself then the onetime damage that blue provides. Every tile you match outstrips blue in damage in 2.7 turns, or in other words, at the 3rd end phase of your turn you have done more damage.

Why is this an either/or? Hit blue then match tiles. And blue is likely to generate matches on its own as well. Don't understand this argument at all. Nor do I understand not going 5blue, when that triples the damage output... unless for some reason you do plan to use him against something other than tile-spammers. Like maybe when you're down to your G team? Or your H team? If my roster is that depleted, I'm better off just putting the game down for a while.

Marc_Spector

Ben Grimm wrote:

3/5/5 is still the way to go. His blue is less bad than it was, but it's still his worst skill. He's highly usable in survival nodes, especially when paired with strike tile generators, and my main use for him going forward is still going to be teaming him with Falcon and Daken when there are better uses for blue and no other green outlet.

Mine's currently 3/5/5 and have enjoyed that build both pre and post update. Agreed re: Falcon & Daken as well.

I do think 4/4/5 could be feasible as well though now that there's a bit more emphasis on protect tiles and longer/defense-heavy matches. I still loathe blue's cost (and think it should be 8-9 AP max), but now that it grabs more of the board, I've had a few matches now where being able to grab protect tiles as well as the few other strikes/attacks would've resulted in some great damage. His black passive @ 4 covers still creates two tiles, although the tradeoff of the damage lost from not going 5 black may likely not be made-up by being able to also grab protect tiles @ 4 blue. (Just thinking out loud here.)

dkffiv

I agree on 4/4/4 minimum, I just find black to be his most consistent skill. Against a cage or if I think you'll get the most mileage out of black, blue seems to be specifically against storm, blade, mag, falcon and maybe daken. Green is still pretty expensive and I'm not sure if I'll be bringing a better green around (he's not terrible with patch)

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Edit:
Although 1 arguement for 3/5/5 is that you many times are better off matching the tiles yourself then the onetime damage that blue provides. Every tile you match outstrips blue in damage in 2.7 turns, or in other words, at the 3rd end phase of your turn you have done more damage.

Why is this an either/or? Hit blue then match tiles. And blue is likely to generate matches on its own as well. Don't understand this argument at all. Nor do I understand not going 5blue, when that triples the damage output... unless for some reason you do plan to use him against something other than tile-spammers. Like maybe when you're down to your G team? Or your H team? If my roster is that depleted, I'm better off just putting the game down for a while.

Tripling the damage output is like going five in Devil Dino's purple because it increases the likelihood of cascades: it's almost never going to happen, so it doesn't matter how much damage it does. Unless you're using Doc Ock primarily against Storm, you're not going to get matches out of his blue often enough to make it worth it. His blue is an overpriced board shuffle.

simonsez

Ben Grimm wrote:

Tripling the damage output is like going five in Devil Dino's purple because it increases the likelihood of cascades: it's almost never going to happen, so it doesn't matter how much damage it does.

Why do you say the damage "is almost never going to happen?" There's a 50% chance of a given tile generating 1k damage. Against the tile-spammers I mentioned, that's a ton of damage. I'm not recommending someone should use him against something like Daken or Blade with 4 strike tiles out. When I look at his skills, he seems specifically meant as a counter to abilities that put out a ton of special tiles. I wouldn't want to build him with anything else in mind.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

Tripling the damage output is like going five in Devil Dino's purple because it increases the likelihood of cascades: it's almost never going to happen, so it doesn't matter how much damage it does.

Why do you say the damage "is almost never going to happen?" There's a 50% chance of a given tile generating 1k damage. Against the tile-spammers I mentioned, that's a ton of damage. I'm not recommending someone should use him against something like Daken or Blade with 4 strike tiles out. When I look at his skills, he seems specifically meant as a counter to abilities that put out a ton of special tiles. I wouldn't want to build him with anything else in mind.

That's one way to use him, but it requires focusing on his blue as his most important. And when you've managed to jack his black up enough times, that 1k damage is absolutely trivial. I pretty much never use his blue skill when I use him, because I almost always pair him with Falcon, and I need to save that blue for redwing. Since when I use him, I'm using him as a goon/survival node specialist, I don't like to disrupt the board any more than absolutely necessary because there's usually a ton of strike and attack tiles and they're usually doing all of my work for me. His blue skill works against that.

Phaserhawk

If you run 5 blue you pigeon hole him into only a counter to C.Mags, Storm, Falcon. The only problem I have with this is you have to wait for their skills to go off to use it, that's what I don't like. Sure you can almost 1 shot 4hor if Storm uses Hailstorm and you follow up with Doc Ock, but here's to your arguement.

Short of the Simulator or Gauntlet, when do you go against Storm or Falcon. Magneto does have his brotherhood PvE so you may use him there, but there are 5 characters I can think of that liter the board with special tiles following their skill.

C.Mags
Storm
Falcon
Iron Man 1*
Gamora

Most of the time you will see Daken and Bullseye and 5 blue is going to be a waste, you are better served matching those away and getting strike tiles. If you opt 5/4/4 I can get that as you are saying you value blue more than anything but like I said before DO is a 4/4/4 build with only 1 optional. The only other not 4/4/4 build I could argue for is 3/5/5 but with so many characters firing out defensive tiles nowadays I don't know