*** Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) ***

Dayv

If they did this, they'd need to cut back on the power of the attack tiles to keep the damage balance they want it to have, on average.

It also matches the behavior of passives like Daken's black and Bullseye's or Spidey's purple: even if you make match-5 of the target color, you still only get the normal number of special tiles.

Pwuz_

And here I was hoping someone would suggest stop changing all his Insult tiles to black. Why can't he generate those tiles on the same color tile as he just matched?

Unknown

I agree the Insult tiles should either stay the color they replace or be random. All black doesn't seem quite right.

ronin_san

Pwuz_ wrote:

I'm still short 5 covers, and I'm not spending HP on my last Thor cover, why would I use him when I have a few maxed 3*s?

You wouldn't. He's absolute ****. His green would still be bad if it did double the damage. **THAT'S** how **** he is.

Moon Roach

As this one's come back to the fore...

I like him. Mine's only 5/1/3, but he's pretty good with Blade and Falcon against goons. I don't use his blue, because that would usually mean taking away Falcon's Redwing, but his black is quite funny and as well as stunning his green can occasionally do a tiny bit of damage.

I wouldn't dream of using him elsewhere unless forced, but in that niche I like him.

So it would be good if there was a voting option that says, in spite of everything I do use him.

bcas76

He looks like a young, Attractions-era Elvis Costello. That doesn't make me more or less likely to use him, but my brain just kind of skips past him I because I'm not in the mood to listen to Imperial Bedroom while playing MPQ. Maybe Blood and Chocolate.

Honestly, I can't even remember what his powers are. Something about creating/swapping attack/strike/protect tiles at 11 or 12 AP. Unique color set, and Blue-Green characters with useful, active (not passive) skills are really rare in this game. Doc Ock is no exception.

Still waiting for that really obvious Green-Purple-Black Green Goblin, then they can leave the Spidey villains alone for awhile. Or for good.

ronin_san

Moon Roach wrote:

As this one's come back to the fore...

I like him. Mine's only 5/1/3, but he's pretty good with Blade and Falcon against goons. <-- situational

I don't use his blue, <-- another knock on him because that would usually mean taking away Falcon's Redwing, but his black is quite funny and as well as stunning his green can occasionally do a tiny bit of damage.

I wouldn't dream of using him elsewhere unless forced, but in that niche I like him.

So it would be good if there was a voting option that says, in spite of everything I do use him.

My comments are in bold to emphasize why he's weak.
You have all these caveats and contingencies for whether he's good, or even useful. That is the biggest problem with Doc Ock. He ought to be amazing. He held his own in the Spider-Man movie. He's a farce in the game.

Ryz-aus

ronin-san wrote:

You have all these caveats and contingencies for whether he's good, or even useful. That is the biggest problem with Doc Ock. He ought to be amazing. He held his own in the Spider-Man movie. He's a farce in the game.

Have you looked at spider-man in this game? Holding your own against him gets you the doc ock we have.

ronin_san

Ryz-aus wrote:

Have you looked at spider-man in this game? Holding your own against him gets you the doc ock we have.

That's equally the problem. He needs a big boost. Spider-Sense ought to be 3 abilities in one:

Hawkeye's old avoid.
Bullseye's Purple. ALWAYS generate protect tiles on purple matches
destroy purples to do Daken-like damage.

Why, right? He's Spider-Man. All throughout the comics, movies, cartoons, games, you see him actively avoid and riposte. He doesn't need web bandages. He needs a web swing that's a kick that takes out a chunk of tiles ala She Hulk or XFW.

He ripostes all the time. Why not make that a damage component? Who wouldn't want to use Spidy if he could stun, burst damage, generate protect tiles, and swing in and take out a row or 2 at a time?

He'd be the bomb. He'd be Aamazing; Spectactular, even!

And that would force the devs to make powerful villains. Who doesn't want that?

Unknown

How about this for a reason: She Hulk does what he does better for cheaper at 9 blue to kill 3 CD tiles.

Wil88

Does he clear traps at 5 Blue as well?

Unknown

I'm fully in the 3/5/5 camp now. His blue is just too useless. Comboed with Daken and Falcon, which is a good anti-goon PVE team, there's more of a need for a green outlet anyway and even less to use his blue. He's not great, but he's good in certain situations, and I think 3/5/5 is the unambiguously better build now.

Phaserhawk

Best and easiest fix for Dr. Ock

Blue costs 5

Green costs 8

done. He's fixed. He's not super powerful, but he's got decently costed skills that make playing him as a niche pick decent. Blue should not cost more than 5 with only grabbing 16 tiles at most, even with damage it's not good. Green does a lot but not at strong enough levels to warrant 12 AP, drop it to 8 and now I may consider this.

Marc_Spector

3/5/5 here as well. I quite like his green and use it often, although I do agree it needs a damage boost and/or lowered cost. His black passive is fine as-is.

Blue's current cost is just abhorrently offensive, though. A worse-than-Loki board shakeup ability with incredibly minuscule chance to damage should not cost more than 5. I would love for the cost to be lowered to that as per Phaser's suggestion, or, just redesign the ability completely.

dkffiv

Phaserhawk wrote:

Best and easiest fix for Dr. Ock

Blue costs 5

Green costs 8

done. He's fixed. He's not super powerful, but he's got decently costed skills that make playing him as a niche pick decent. Blue should not cost more than 5 with only grabbing 16 tiles at most, even with damage it's not good. Green does a lot but not at strong enough levels to warrant 12 AP, drop it to 8 and now I may consider this.

The potential to destroy special tiles should make blue slightly more expensive than Loki's, perhaps make it 12 AP with -1 to cost and increase damage per cover (destroys all types of tiles at rank 1).

Phaserhawk

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Best and easiest fix for Dr. Ock

Blue costs 5

Green costs 8

done. He's fixed. He's not super powerful, but he's got decently costed skills that make playing him as a niche pick decent. Blue should not cost more than 5 with only grabbing 16 tiles at most, even with damage it's not good. Green does a lot but not at strong enough levels to warrant 12 AP, drop it to 8 and now I may consider this.

The potential to destroy special tiles should make blue slightly more expensive than Loki's, perhaps make it 12 AP with -1 to cost and increase damage per cover (destroys all types of tiles at rank 1).

But Loki switches up to 22 pairs at lvl3, that's 44 tiles. The most Doc Ock does is 16 tiles or 8 pair so considering Loki shifts almost 30 more tiles at a lvl 3 vs Doc Ock, I'm okay with him doing damage if he so happens to grab a special tile.

simonsez

Since there are already plenty of abilities that target special tiles specifically, it's hard to justify an ability that has a low percentage of doing so, regardless of cost.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

Since there are already plenty of abilities that target special tiles specifically, it's hard to justify an ability that has a low percentage of doing so, regardless of cost.

100% agreed, which is why I say drop the cost to 5. In fact his black should also read whenever any special tile is destroyed create attack tiles, instead of just on matches, now you have a very solid character that fits a role.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Since there are already plenty of abilities that target special tiles specifically, it's hard to justify an ability that has a low percentage of doing so, regardless of cost.

100% agreed, which is why I say drop the cost to 5. In fact his black should also read whenever any special tile is destroyed create attack tiles, instead of just on matches, now you have a very solid character that fits a role.

At 5 it might be comparing too favorably to loki purple. Maybe 7, since when it does hit multiple special tiles it can make for a decent sized nuke. But yeah the current cost makes him unplayable.

Phaserhawk

ark123 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Since there are already plenty of abilities that target special tiles specifically, it's hard to justify an ability that has a low percentage of doing so, regardless of cost.

100% agreed, which is why I say drop the cost to 5. In fact his black should also read whenever any special tile is destroyed create attack tiles, instead of just on matches, now you have a very solid character that fits a role.

At 5 it might be comparing too favorably to loki purple. Maybe 7, since when it does hit multiple special tiles it can make for a decent sized nuke. But yeah the current cost makes him unplayable.

My only arguement is that Loki at level 3 for purple can still affect 69% of the board, where as Doc Ock can never affect more than 25% due to the ability as is, so right there you limit the power of blue. The power for Doc Ock in that skill is that you are looking for special tiles to blow up, any matches are bonus, but Loki's power you are looking either to get matches/move a tile stuck in a bad spot/or find a good move. If you allowed black to trigger on any special tile destroyed and not just due to matches, then I could see halving blue's damage or getting rid of it completely which I would still be okay with.