*** Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) ***

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  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    gamar wrote:
    atomzed wrote:
    I don't get Oct blue. It's so... random. 8 pair tiles out of 64? What are the chances of hitting it? And if I don't hit it, there's absolutely no effect.

    I rather max green, which at least gives me 3 turns stun. True there are better green out there. But if I'm going to use doc oct, his blue is too random for my liking.

    Can someone explain why most people like 3/5/5 for doc oct?

    3->5 blue destroys chosen CD tiles on swap, which is a pretty big deal against goons. 3->5 green gives you 3 turns of a random stun in a color that has far better abilities. And if you thought blue is random, I'm surprised you don't think green is even more random. There are so many random effects on that ability, and probably only 1/3rd of them will be relevant any time you try to use it. At least you know blue is going to be a **** illusions every single time you cast it.
    Chosen, not random?

    Chosen meaning that if the CD tile is chosen (selected), it's automatically destroyed.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I have been surprised at how much I like Doc Octs black. I have used him with Patch and his black is doing 1k damage with BR. He feels like a cross between Doom, Daken, Loki. I think his blue And green cost too much but in PVE he is a great partner for Patch
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
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    atomzed wrote:
    I don't get Oct blue. It's so... random. 8 pair tiles out of 64? What are the chances of hitting it? And if I don't hit it, there's absolutely no effect.

    I rather max green, which at least gives me 3 turns stun. True there are better green out there. But if I'm going to use doc oct, his blue is too random for my liking.

    Can someone explain why most people like 3/5/5 for doc oct?

    3->5 blue destroys chosen CD tiles on swap, which is a pretty big deal against goons. 3->5 green gives you 3 turns of a random stun in a color that has far better abilities. And if you thought blue is random, I'm surprised you don't think green is even more random. There are so many random effects on that ability, and probably only 1/3rd of them will be relevant any time you try to use it. At least you know blue is going to be a **** illusions every single time you cast it.

    I took a closer look at blue andas you said, realised that 5 is the only way to go, to make it less ****.

    3 only target strike and attack tiles. 5 only any special tiles to be targeted. At 3, his blue is basically useless.

    His green is also useless at 3 cover, but the extra stun at 5 covers is not that useful because we can't target the person.

    So between the devil and the red sea, I guess maxing blue is the better option.

    Well the only consolation is that dr Oct is not a beast then....
  • Doc Ock will never see PVP play.

    Ever.

    The only supports that can play in PVP right now are those that give you free AP/steal AP (OBW, Hood) and strike tilers or strike tile modifiers (Daken, Falcon).

    You'll occasionally see a Spider man, but those are mostly left over from when Spider man could stun you every turn, before he was nerfed.
  • Had Otto use manipulation on me, but my swapped attack tiles weren't destroyed, just moved! Anyone else see this happen?
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    daibar wrote:
    Had Otto use manipulation on me, but my swapped attack tiles weren't destroyed, just moved! Anyone else see this happen?
    The enemy Doc didn't have enough blue to destroy the strike tiles. They probably only had 1 blue cover.
  • Also, icon_colossus_new.png's Immovable Object ( I think yellowflag.png ) is an indirect nerf to OBW's Anti-Gravity Device ( blueflag.png ). I made the mistake to activate it upping his countdown of bulky metal immovableness.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm not going to state how much I dislike how Doc Ock works but there is one function in his current set that could use a slight improvement. For his Green ability, Armed and Dangerous, the stun would probably be better if it was applied after damage is done. Reason being is that, although random, it will target enemies that drop to 0 health from this attack. This feels improper and an unnecessary hit against the utility of the skill.
  • loroku
    loroku Posts: 1,014 Chairperson of the Boards
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    1. Doc Ock's blue costs 11 AP,
    Doc Ock has a blue?

    Just kidding, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about his black passive, which would blow something like Sentry's massive tile generator up. That's a ton of enemy tiles all over the place, begging to be matched away, and even if they go off you still got your black attack tiles down.

    The blue is also pretty amazing, but yeah I wouldn't think that's quite as useful.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    loroku wrote:
    1. Doc Ock's blue costs 11 AP,
    Doc Ock has a blue?

    Just kidding, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about his black passive, which would blow something like Sentry's massive tile generator up. That's a ton of enemy tiles all over the place, begging to be matched away, and even if they go off you still got your black attack tiles down.

    The blue is also pretty amazing, but yeah I wouldn't think that's quite as useful.
    You do realize what you're implying is getting down, at most, four attack tiles at 4-5 Black if you can't get a Match Five? Is that honestly a good trade for an attack that could still potentially down your Ock, severely damage your team, and still cause little damage to Sentry's team in the process if you are unable to get rid of his strike tile if he throws it down.
  • I like Squid's concept, but I agree, blue is way too expensive and unreliable. Green is surprisingly weak. Black is pretty good. He's a fun character, but he could do with a bit of tweaking.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    loroku wrote:
    1. Doc Ock's blue costs 11 AP,
    Doc Ock has a blue?

    Just kidding, but that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about his black passive, which would blow something like Sentry's massive tile generator up. That's a ton of enemy tiles all over the place, begging to be matched away, and even if they go off you still got your black attack tiles down.

    The blue is also pretty amazing, but yeah I wouldn't think that's quite as useful.

    Yeah, I don't think trading 10 sentry WR triggers for 4 100 strength attack tiles is really considered a "counter" to Sentry in any shape or form...
  • arktos1971 wrote:
    Octopus would have been useful if you could clear all enemy tiles, like Cmarvel with the protection tiles.

    Otherwise, it should have been a 6 AP or less ability just for one tile.

    He is fun to play, I like the animations (like the Blue Beast), but I'm not sure I will play him much.

    This. So much this. The problem lies, I think, in the Dev Team overvaluing random stun. The power tries to do too much and fails on 3 fronts. Either A) Take the stun out or 2) Take the damage out, and make it cost 6 green please.
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Lerysh wrote:
    arktos1971 wrote:
    Octopus would have been useful if you could clear all enemy tiles, like Cmarvel with the protection tiles.

    Otherwise, it should have been a 6 AP or less ability just for one tile.

    He is fun to play, I like the animations (like the Blue Beast), but I'm not sure I will play him much.

    This. So much this. The problem lies, I think, in the Dev Team overvaluing random stun. The power tries to do too much and fails on 3 fronts. Either A) Take the stun out or 2) Take the damage out, and make it cost 6 green please.
    The problem is that they vastly overvalue everything. So when we look at the actually useful powers, we're looking at the ones that are outliers on the lower cost side, so comparing it to ones that are outliers on the overcosted side, it makes the gulf twice as bad
  • wymtime wrote:
    daibar wrote:
    Had Otto use manipulation on me, but my swapped attack tiles weren't destroyed, just moved! Anyone else see this happen?
    The enemy Doc didn't have enough blue to destroy the strike tiles. They probably only had 1 blue cover.
    Ah ok, the tooltip is wrong at 1 cover then. Probably was a single blue for a loaner icon_doctoroctopus.png
  • turul
    turul Posts: 1,622 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Also, it would be better if black passive ability:

    - would work if match-4 destoy would count too.
    - matching 2 special tiles at once would create 2 attack tiles. (or more if matched more)
  • Spoit wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    That's his main problem, he LOOKS like a sentry nerf, but Sentry will beat the **** out of him.
    To be fair, the only thing that could slow down a sentry while defending is the boosted hulk tourney
    Doc ock's black animation slows down sentry bombs by about 5 seconds each time. If the opponent manages to clear world rapture countdowns 3 or 4 times that could be a huge delay icon_twisted.gif
  • john1620b
    john1620b Posts: 367
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    daibar wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    daibar wrote:
    Had Otto use manipulation on me, but my swapped attack tiles weren't destroyed, just moved! Anyone else see this happen?
    The enemy Doc didn't have enough blue to destroy the strike tiles. They probably only had 1 blue cover.
    Ah ok, the tooltip is wrong at 1 cover then. Probably was a single blue for a loaner icon_doctoroctopus.png
    The tooltip is always for the next level of covers. It's misleading at 0 covers, because it shows the level 2 tip -- just look at the regular description for a 1 cover ability.
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
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    daibar wrote:
    Spoit wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    That's his main problem, he LOOKS like a sentry nerf, but Sentry will beat the **** out of him.
    To be fair, the only thing that could slow down a sentry while defending is the boosted hulk tourney
    Doc ock's black animation slows down sentry bombs by about 5 seconds each time. If the opponent manages to clear world rapture countdowns 3 or 4 times that could be a huge delay icon_twisted.gif
    Well if you want to talk about animations slowing it down, icon_caroldanvers.png is the best there is
  • daibar wrote:
    Spoit wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    That's his main problem, he LOOKS like a sentry nerf, but Sentry will beat the **** out of him.
    To be fair, the only thing that could slow down a sentry while defending is the boosted hulk tourney
    Doc ock's black animation slows down sentry bombs by about 5 seconds each time. If the opponent manages to clear world rapture countdowns 3 or 4 times that could be a huge delay icon_twisted.gif
    Doc Ock as a shield hopping deterrent. lolz

    Personally, I've been enjoying Doc Ock with Patch in the PvE. Fire off Berserker Rage at rank 5, match a purple strike tile away and practically speaking you get an immediate KO (Rage damage + match damage + attack tile damage) against non-tanky characters.

    But in PvP, yeah, he's not going to see much high-level play.