*** Colossus (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • Throwing Deadpool is 100% effective typically, because the damage from ALOtT at 65% plus the damage from FS will straight kill a guy with 4965 heath or less, and with WWW doing 4069 team damage you are at bonus levels if you hit it instead. For 13 black you can guarantee the death of 1 character with 5000 health approx. by throwing Deadpool and 50% of the time you damage the other 2 enemies for 4k as well. A fine choice to throw.

    I'm not saying this elevates Colossus to high tier territory but I am saying L.Thor/Deadpool/Colossus can be a devastating team.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    Throwing Deadpool is 100% effective typically, because the damage from ALOtT at 65% plus the damage from FS will straight kill a guy with 4965 heath or less, and with WWW doing 4069 team damage you are at bonus levels if you hit it instead. For 13 black you can guarantee the death of 1 character with 5000 health approx. by throwing Deadpool and 50% of the time you damage the other 2 enemies for 4k as well. A fine choice to throw.

    I'm not saying this elevates Colossus to high tier territory but I am saying L.Thor/Deadpool/Colossus can be a devastating team.

    It depends on what you mean by "effective", since 5k damage is very average (which is what I said, didn't use mediocre, woot) for an ability that costs 13AP. Disregarding the ridiculous abilities like RotP, surgical, etc, a "good" ability like C. Mags does the same damage for 10AP, and the difference between 10 and 13 ap is actually like 2-4 in game turns if you're rushing for the AP.

    There's two main problems I see with teams like Deadpool Colossus:
    1. Very low synergy. You want to run Deadpool and Colossus individually because of their reds (deadpools purple is too expensive in a normal match unless you're going for super whales), which means that they don't mesh well since their best ability is red, and their other abilities are situational. This means that you would run the duo specifically to throw DP since they don't mesh that well together otherwise.
    2. High variance. So you're running this team to throw into whales. 50% of the time it casts whales and wrecks them, the other 50% of the time it deals 5k damage to a single target, which is incredibly average. I would say that this is fine if throwing was more of a bonus ability, but DP / Colossus's sole purpose as a team is to do this throw combo, and it seems bad to base your gameplan around an ability that works 50% of the time.

    Pairing Colossus with LazyThor seems fine (although slow): Colossus adds a very good red and an inconsistent black to the team, and Thor provides an amazing yellow / green so theres some inherit color synergy there. I don't see the point of Deadpool / Thor / Colossus though: you only need one good throw target with Colossus, and you'd be much better off bringing a guy that compliments Thor / Colossus more, say Hood, Daken, or Fury.

    I get how people think that the idea is awesome (free whales!), but it seems like you just sacrifice way too much when trying to make it work with characters that don't really fit well with Colossus in the first place (characters with great reds and not too much else going for them, aka Cap/Deadpool). My main point is to not overvalue the ability: treat it as incidental value/synergy and all is well, but force a team comp around the ability and you're probably gonna have a bad day.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wouldn't Deadpools ALOTT hit after the damage of Fastball Special anyway? This would cause it to not even kill the enemy unless there were enough strike tiles to do it. So he'd be completely ineffective for 50% of throws.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2014
    Phantron wrote:
    Dauthi wrote:

    I disagree, I don't think it is weak, just mediocre when compared to strong blacks. It is usable if you need a black ability (I chucked Thor into the air today and gleefully called a storm with the bonus impact damage) and black abilities are a rare commodity. I think the problem is XF Wolvie is a given in any team and his black makes other blacks, in fact other abilities, look weak in comparison.

    Well the reality is that Surgical Strike is probably here to stay. The problem with really strong abilities/characters is that they set the standard for a color too high. COTS is another good example and the only thing that can compete with it is World Rupture and X Force. Aside from Rage of the Panther there's no black ability that's even situationally usable over Surgical Strike. This is probably due to an overall lack of balance. Fireball/Star Spangled Avenger doesn't prevent any other red spell from being used because HT lacks HP and Captain is slow in general, but no such drawback exist for X Force.

    Well, the problem isn't just his black, but that XF's other abilities are good as well, and he is a 4* making him even more likely to be in end game rosters. As long as he continues to be a staple, like Thor, in most rosters, we just won't see any end game roster's using mediocre blacks.

    I think mid tier rosters will get a great ride out Colossus' black for the time being though.
    I wouldn't really say that black abilities are that rare anymore. Looking at the black abilities in the game on 166 3*s, we have X-Force, BP, Torch, Punisher, Mohawk, C. Marvel, Psylocke, Hood, Colossus

    Just based off of pure power level on an average team, I would probably rate these black abilities in the following tiers:
    Amazing: X-Force, BP
    Good: Psylocke, C. Marvel, Mohawk, Punisher
    Mediocre: Torch, Hood, Colossus

    The ability is of course usable, but just like how thunderous clap is usable, I think calling it weak (which is one step above unplayable) is reasonable considering how almost all of the other black abilities in the game are better than it.

    True, top tier they have a decent running now. Mid tier has been given plenty of Punisher's so most should have him, but they likely don't have XF, while Mohawk, C.Marvel and Colossus haven't been out long enough to spread around nearly as much.

    I definitely wouldn't put Hood's black in as Mediocre, it is pretty bad by all measures. I would concede it is even with Torch's black though.

    On a side note I bought an extra black cover for Colossus using HP before realizing it uses a random ability. I feel like there should be some compensation as his skill is falsely advertised in it's description. Adding "activating one random skill at no cost..." would fix this.
  • Black hood is awsome when paired with sentry... with 5 black there's only a minimum loss of countdown tiles.. But outside of that, yes hood black is awfull.
  • Wouldn't Deadpools ALOTT hit after the damage of Fastball Special anyway? This would cause it to not even kill the enemy unless there were enough strike tiles to do it. So he'd be completely ineffective for 50% of throws.

    No, Fastball Special does power first then damage.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Lerysh wrote:
    Wouldn't Deadpools ALOTT hit after the damage of Fastball Special anyway? This would cause it to not even kill the enemy unless there were enough strike tiles to do it. So he'd be completely ineffective for 50% of throws.

    No, Fastball Special does power first then damage.
    Ah, that isn't as bad as I initially thought then. Never really noticed when tossing Thor around.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,755 Chairperson of the Boards
    Black powers:
    Awsome: BP, X-Force, Colossus
    Good with overall good character: C Marvel, Punisher
    Good with squishy character: MStorm, Psy, HT
    Bad: Hood (unless with Sentry), Colossus

    Colossus Black is either going to be Great or Bad depending on who you throw and what power goes off. It is a 13 AP coin flip. Let's say you throw GSBW you might get Sniper Rifle icon_e_biggrin.gif or you might get Pistol icon_cry.gif
    Throw LThor icon_twisted.gif Throw Dare Devil icon_redface.gif

    Bring Colossus along with your A Team for his red and his black as your hail mary.
    Bring Colossus along with your B-Team and use him for Red for damage and yellow to protect your squishy characters.
  • Correction, Hood black is good with LC, IM 40, Ares, HT if you aren't using HT's black, Falcon, Nick Fury, MMN, mHawkeye, Beast (it's something). Bad with Colossus and him only. With Punisher/Psylocke you can choose, Hood's black is better single target damage than Molotov and can speed up Bewilder if you're pressed for time when a Katana won't do you much good.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime wrote:
    When you look at Colossus black it is all dependent on your roster. If you have a lot of 3* it can be awsome depending on who he throws : LThor, Lcap, Patch, Sentry, Deadpool, Iron man(potentially), Fury. It can be a very good offensive wepon late in the game.

    If you are transitioning and you don't have a deep 3* team, and your team has a lot of black users: Psy, Pun, BP, Doom, Storm it is hard to push forward with this ability. Becuase the character in the air does not take damage I would say this is a middle tier black. As a stand alone it really needs the right characters. If you pair him with LThor/Deadpool and Hood you can protect hood on everything but blue and throw Thor/Deadpool for huge combo's. If you paid him with Psylock he nedds to throw out his yellow as fast as possible to protect everyone.
    The good news is he plays well with a lot of characters and has high health. He is a very good red when he is out front, and Yellow and Black will really depend on who he plays with. Black costs a lot, and yellow is all defense. His best build is who do you want him playing with and that gives him a lot of flexability and makes him really solid. I don't think I can say top tier yet but he is close.

    Patch is miserable because Colossus tanks red/yellow for him at max level, meaning that TBTI does nothing.
    LThor/Deadpool have a 67% / 50% of landing a devestating ability, and a 33% / 50% of landing an average red ability, which is very inconsistent.

    Colossus only tanks yellow, Patch can tank red if he is positioned correctly. Furthermore TBTI goes off after he lands, and it has been confirmed, so when Patch comes down he would take red tiles back over and TBTI then looks to do damage, so assuming no green user you can have Patch at least tanking 2 colors and if you don't run a purple user, Patch will more than likely tank 3 colors meaning TBTI will hit hard, especially for those that have a 3/5/5 Patch. I think one can run Fastball Special as a very strong offensive ability but....you are going to have to really reorder some characters and their abilties in order to maximize it, like Patch, you would want him 5/5/3 is you wanted to use fastball special. Captain Marvel also 5/5/3.

    The character I actually think benefits the most from Fastball Sepcial is BWGS, just because 13 AP is much cheaper than 19 green or 14-17 red. Yes you only have a 67% chance of something decent, but you more than likely have a 67% chance of getting Sniper Rifle off, either by the random, or generating enough green from Deceptive Tactics.

    I think people forget that Fastball does 1784 damage itself, plus the free skill so it can hit hard. Which therein lies you builds

    Offensive --- 3/5/5
    Deffensive--5/5/3
    Hybrid-4/5/4
  • Hissori
    Hissori Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    G
    iving away a tip here. What makes colossus black more powerful is knowing what skill will be used on landing. How? Well, best Use I found so far is with falcon. He has 2 passive. So, that leaves only one active... Bird strike. One of the best defensive skills in game. This will hit every time. On top of collecting purple and casting bird strike. You have a board always full of shields, both limiting tile usage from other opposing teams. Throw in a yellow 5 count and you take 1 damage with even the biggest hits. I took 1 damage from maxed xforce black and green. Remember, also as you are collecting yellow for your next 5 count yellow , falcons yellow is fortifying your shields at the same time making your defense even stronger. You take virtually no damage. Im sure the ai doesn't consider this when choosing a black target. Works like a charm as a player though.
  • Hissori wrote:
    Giving away a tip here. What makes colossus black more powerful is knowing what skill will be used on landing. How? Well, best Use I found so far is with falcon. He has 2 passive. So, that leaves only one active... Bird strike. One of the best defensive skills in game. This will hit every time. On top of collecting purple and casting bird strike. You have a board always full of shields, both limiting tile usage from other opposing teams. Throw in a yellow 5 count and you take 1 damage with even the biggest hits. I took 1 damage from maxed xforce black and green. Remember, also as you are collecting yellow for your next 5 count yellow , falcons yellow is fortifying your shields at the same time making your defense even stronger. You take virtually no damage. Im sure the ai doesn't consider this when choosing a black target. Works like a charm as a player though.
    If there was a game mode that had the sole purpose of reducing all damage to 1 this combo would be useful. As it stands, it won't help you place any higher in PvPs.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,212 Chairperson of the Boards
    Did anyone else notice that Colossus' icon icon_colossus_new.png in game changed. It's no longer the iconic sickle & hammer!

    It's just some stupid triangle. BOO!!!
  • See this thread re: colossus symbol. Long thread short: D3 decided to change it. Although not yet on the forums apparently. Expect the hammer and sickle to be removed and replaced here shortly as well.

    That symbol is supposed to be his uniform I guess? Which makes him a really slim waist for a literal man made of steel.
  • HailMary wrote:
    Am I so wrong to think that a strike tile would multiply damage.....then the damage would be applied to the victim.

    As it stands now, I hit the victim....then the multiplier comes around and hits the victim again.

    Then OBW espionage should cause quadruple dipping.

    Original hit....espionage..... here comes the multiplier.....and espionage.
    Strike tiles aren't multipliers. They simply add their damage values to every damaging move.

    OK, my bad.


    Original hit....espionage..... here comes the ADDED DAMAGE.....and espionage.

    Its been awhile since I posted the original message, so to reiterate.

    If Colossus doesn't stop strike tile damage because it is added on after the hit connects, then it is a separate attack. So Black Widow should Quad Dip.

    Seriously. A character can stop 50% of damage. Someone hits him for 2 points of damage while there are 500 points of strike tiles out. His ability allows him to take 501 damage instead of 502. Yay?
  • More realistically its someone hits him for 240 with 200 in strike tiles out he takes 320 instead of 440, which is still messed up. Should be fixed to half damage after all adders.

    On the flip side, that makes shield tiles WAY better for Colossus, they follow the same code paths. Did not work against TU for a while, will likely work AFTER damage is halved for 100% effect. SO with 200 in shields instead that guy who hit you for 240 does 1 instead of 20.
  • HailMary
    HailMary Posts: 2,179
    Original hit....espionage..... here comes the ADDED DAMAGE.....and espionage.

    Its been awhile since I posted the original message, so to reiterate.

    If Colossus doesn't stop strike tile damage because it is added on after the hit connects, then it is a separate attack. So Black Widow should Quad Dip.

    Seriously. A character can stop 50% of damage. Someone hits him for 2 points of damage while there are 500 points of strike tiles out. His ability allows him to take 501 damage instead of 502. Yay?
    I agree that Colossus should also dampen strike-tile damage. I think strike tiles being an exception makes no sense.

    But, Espionage + strike tiles works like this: (match damage + strike damage) + (secondary Espionage damage + strike damage). Espionage only triggers upon a specific color matches, so OBW wouldn't quad-dip even if strike tile damage was treated as a separate attack.
  • Dauthi
    Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
    HailMary wrote:
    Am I so wrong to think that a strike tile would multiply damage.....then the damage would be applied to the victim.

    As it stands now, I hit the victim....then the multiplier comes around and hits the victim again.

    Then OBW espionage should cause quadruple dipping.

    Original hit....espionage..... here comes the multiplier.....and espionage.
    Strike tiles aren't multipliers. They simply add their damage values to every damaging move.

    OK, my bad.


    Original hit....espionage..... here comes the ADDED DAMAGE.....and espionage.

    Its been awhile since I posted the original message, so to reiterate.

    If Colossus doesn't stop strike tile damage because it is added on after the hit connects, then it is a separate attack. So Black Widow should Quad Dip.

    Seriously. A character can stop 50% of damage. Someone hits him for 2 points of damage while there are 500 points of strike tiles out. His ability allows him to take 501 damage instead of 502. Yay?

    It has to be a bug. Strike tiles are powers, and powers are directly effected. Just wait for it and it will come. Until then, it is a minor inconvenience.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Special tiles are created by powers but are not powers themselves...
  • famousfoxking
    famousfoxking Posts: 245 Tile Toppler
    Obviously, the best person to throw is Bullseye. Cast a black power that costs 16 AP for only 13 AP and do extra damage as well? If you just wait til you have 29 black, you can cast twice and actually get the full effect of Murderous Aim! Plus, you know EXACTLY which power will go off!

    I'm kidding, it's a terrible idea, but it sounds good, doesn't it?