*** Colossus (Classic) ***

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  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think this is working as intended. The character has already been thrown -- it wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly reappear on the ground when the character that threw them got knocked out.
  • I'm reading a lot of negativity with his black as it compares to other great black moves. But it seems like dismissing that his black can activate other black powers free of charge. Say he throws XF Wolvie, you have 30% chance to use Surgical Strike with a good chunk of bonus damage. Against someone like Daken or Punisher who's strongest color is black, you could toss XF again the very next turn.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    SUPERTOM wrote:
    I'm reading a lot of negativity with his black as it compares to other great black moves. But it seems like dismissing that his black can activate other black powers free of charge. Say he throws XF Wolvie, you have 30% chance to use Surgical Strike with a good chunk of bonus damage. Against someone like Daken or Punisher who's strongest color is black, you could toss XF again the very next turn.

    The thing is, why would you spend 13 AP for a 33% of casting surgical + 1.7k damage, a 33% of casting X-Force, and a 33% chance of casting recovery (which may or may not be useless) when you can spend the 11 black AP just casting surgical in the first place? I don't see any situation with XF and Colossus where you wouldn't just use surgical 100% of the time instead of fastballing for a 33% at it: surgical is so important that you'd be crazy to not use it over fastball every time.
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
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    Maybe you cast Surgical Strike against a team whose strongest color is black and now you have 13+ black AP again but no black tiles on the board? Or maybe you just got a crazy cascade and you're now sitting on 24+ black AP but you can't cast Surgical Strike twice. There. A match made in Heaven. icon_e_wink.gif
  • It is risky to hope for surgical strike but throwing XF still gets you a 66% chance to do 4-6K damage for "free" and keeps Wolvie out of harms way. It might be a good choice when you know the AI's next turn is an AOE that is sure to wipe him out, (Rage of Panther, Call of Storm, WR/Sacrifice, etc). Say you're up against Sentry, World Rupture has one tick left and he just laid down a Sacrifice, you have enough black for Surgical strike but you know it wont be enough to fully take him down. Instead you toss him, he's safe while WR annihilates your 2 remaining characters and now you still have a fighting chance now that Sentry has hurt himself and his team. It's almost a better power for just protecting characters than it is a damage dealer.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
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    SUPERTOM wrote:
    It is risky to hope for surgical strike but throwing XF still gets you a 66% chance to do 4-6K damage for "free"
    How exactly is it free??? Why not just use the black to cast surgical strike and have a 100% chance of doing 4-6k damage?
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
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    What if the enemy has 8,000 health?

    In that case, your only hope is to toss X-Force, get the 1,800 damage from Fastball Special and hope for either X-Force or Surgical Strike.

    He's saying that it's "free" in that Fastball special does 1,800 damage for 13 black AP and then you get a "free" bonus ability from the character you threw.
  • Exactly, you have a 66% chance to do some major damage and keep the character safe. You could save up 8 green, 13 black. Toss XF, he's safe for a couple turns, lands, does 6K+ damage, then you could follow that right up with XF and do another 3-4K damage. Anywho, I'm leaning toward 4/5/4. I'm not sure if another turn of Immovable object is that crucial when it's only 8 AP to use.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    SUPERTOM wrote:
    Exactly, you have a 66% chance to do some major damage and keep the character safe. You could save up 8 green, 13 black. Toss XF, he's safe for a couple turns, lands, does 6K+ damage, then you could follow that right up with XF and do another 3-4K damage. Anywho, I'm leaning toward 4/5/4. I'm not sure if another turn of Immovable object is that crucial when it's only 8 AP to use.

    Okay, so I guess in the situation where the enemy is about to cast a big spell, and you have 13 black AP to cast fastball, and casting surgical strike doesn't outright kill the character threatening to kill your guy, and fastball actually gets the 66% of casting XF or surgical.... Do you see where I'm going with this? It just seems incredibly unlikely (under 5%?) to come up with a situation where you would ever want to cast fastball over surgical strike. The fact that it costs 13AP and is an ability that is probably like 4th on your priority list in any given team means that you're just never going to cast it, which means that 5/5/3 is almost assuredly better just because you'll cast his yellow far more than you cast fastball.
  • vudu3
    vudu3 Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
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    I completely agree. I just like to argue. icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • SUPERTOM wrote:
    Exactly, you have a 66% chance to do some major damage and keep the character safe. You could save up 8 green, 13 black. Toss XF, he's safe for a couple turns, lands, does 6K+ damage, then you could follow that right up with XF and do another 3-4K damage. Anywho, I'm leaning toward 4/5/4. I'm not sure if another turn of Immovable object is that crucial when it's only 8 AP to use.

    Okay, so I guess in the situation where the enemy is about to cast a big spell, and you have 13 black AP to cast fastball, and casting surgical strike doesn't outright kill the character threatening to kill your guy, and fastball actually gets the 66% of casting XF or surgical.... Do you see where I'm going with this? It just seems incredibly unlikely (under 5%?) to come up with a situation where you would ever want to cast fastball over surgical strike. The fact that it costs 13AP and is an ability that is probably like 4th on your priority list in any given team means that you're just never going to cast it, which means that 5/5/3 is almost assuredly better just because you'll cast his yellow far more than you cast fastball.

    It happens to me quite often especially against World Rupture and Call of Storm, but I do see your point and I don't totally disagree. Using surgical strike against Sentry or Thor will grant you enough red to just clobber them with Colossus anyway. I just like having extra options as I get tired of using the same 3 chars and 3 powers event after event. Also Colossus has always been a favorite of mine. And the extra turn of Immovable doesn't feel that beneficial considering with the right board you could get 7-8 more yellow in 4 turns pretty easily.
  • theshadeofopal
    theshadeofopal Posts: 93 Match Maker
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    If fastball was either 2 ap cheaper or did say 2800-3200ish damage by itself, none of this would be an issue. 1700 feels like an **** pull number that they just put in because it has to some damage by itself in case defense grid goes off.
  • Is Fastball Special really random? I used it on Patch 4 times, and every single time it turned out in a BR.

    Or does it always skip some powers?

    Edit: NVM, TBTI finally came on the 5th attempt.
  • fnedude
    fnedude Posts: 382 Mover and Shaker
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    Okay, so I was using Colossus's Fastball, and I launched Hulk (I know icon_lol.gif )

    When Hulk landed, he did his "smash" animation (no big deal), but he dealt 24xx damage (where colossus says it's 742). My Hulk only deals in the 15xx range. (the difference is from some Daken strike tiles).

    It's like it added Fastball Special to Smash's damage, and then dealt that to my target (colossus in this case,yes the 3x3 PvP event).

    So.... that's not correct, right?

    EDIT: So I got to try it a second time, it dealt 1066 damage (again no where near correct Fastball Special w/ Daken strike).

    Edit x2: So I tried it again, and dealth1360 damage, it shows only 744 damage.
  • TazFTW
    TazFTW Posts: 695 Critical Contributor
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    Is Colossal Punch bugged? It doesn't seem to always do the additional damage when he's front.
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I don't see where the bug is supposed to be. Fastball Special does damage to the target enemy, and the randomly selected ability from the fastball-ee also does damage.
  • over_clocked
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    You know that Smash damage is variable, right? Depends on whether you have green AP beyond 10 or not.
  • Yes, the number shown is smash+fastball damage.
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
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    TazFTW wrote:
    Is Colossal Punch bugged? It doesn't seem to always do the additional damage when he's front.
    I heard someone mention before that it was bugged to only count when it was actually his tiles that were matched last turn. I.e. that even if his yellow is out, so he tanks, it won't trigger if you matched someone else's tile
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I got to use Fastball defensively in Real Steel. Opposing Sentry pulled off a World Rupture before me, so I used Fastball to get Sentry out of the way and Immovable Object to protect Colossus. Was hoping for a Sacrifice when Sentry landed, but I got a Supernova instead. That still roughed the opposition up enough that I was able to pull off a win.