*** Colossus (Classic) ***

Unknown

LnD-Rash wrote:

As someone who enjoys defensive tactics I found out a funny trick I'd like to share:

1. Cast Immovable object, preferably on some tile at the bottom of the screen.
2. Shield the countdown tile and all surrounding tiles with Invisible Woman's blue skill.
3. Enjoy a virtually invulnerable Colossus (50% damage reduction + IW's huge protect tile) tanking for your team indefinitely (the countdown tile will never expire but he still steps to the front and gets the damage reduction).

That sounds like a bug because no special tile is supposed to function while they're inside the bubble. If that worked on a regular basis then Invisibility + Force Bubble = guaranteed win as you can do Invisibility and then lock up every yellow tile including the invisibility tile and there would be almost no way to ever get rid of it and you'll eventually win just because you can't die, even if it's just one person.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

That sounds like a bug because no special tile is supposed to function while they're inside the bubble.

Some do, some don't. Can't check it for sure right now since my Invisible Woman got downed, but I'm pretty sure while Strike Tiles do get suppressed, Protect Tiles don't... so it most likely just comes down to the Devs gut feeling about what should work and what not.

Is there some specific clarification about this? Because otherwise this could just as well be a tweak specifically geared towards Invisible Woman's tile, so that she can't combo with herself.

If that worked on a regular basis then Invisibility + Force Bubble = guaranteed win as you can do Invisibility and then lock up every yellow tile including the invisibility tile and there would be almost no way to ever get rid of it and you'll eventually win just because you can't die, even if it's just one person.

At 14 Yellow and 13 Blue AP I'd argue there's nothing wrong with that. With the same amount in Yellow/Green AP you can almost cast World Rupture and Sacrifice two times in a row... just to name the most obvious example.

NorthernPolarity

silverrex wrote:

MY observation with colossus after running him a bit in PvP

his yellow activates more often than one might think, simply because most player including myself running red/green/blue(daken) matches way before collecting yellow unless the entire board is filled with yellow. T

Many times over I have to deal with colossus's yellow having to force me to either trying to take out his yellow CD or finish him off so I can get thru to my real target. Which is indeed annoying and this is only a level 60 colossus with 3k hp and yellow cover.

I can only imagine a fully maxed colossus will be extremely annoying simply you cannot ignore his black and yellow. Unless you run X-force and tank black but that still means you have to compete for yellow at the same time and if you also have to look out for someone's red/green, it will come down to board luck.

As for dishing out my own black. I have to say a few times in PvE where my Lthor was about to die and a flashing black saved my entire match. As someone mentioned, I was able to double dip on yellow and follow by green twice and completely wiped the other team.

so in real terms you can look at Colossus like this

His yellow is a defensive deterrent and his black is a chance to come back from behind offensive skill if you have Lthor or Nick Fury etc that can turn the tie based on 1 or 2 skills. His red is very usable and often is all you need to form a team of 3. So when you add all 3 skills, it becomes clear he is very diverse and gives you that added option/ability to change your tactic mid way thru your match and might even save your bacon from time to time.

I fully expect he will continue to gain popularity as time goes on.
He is a good 3rd character to round out any or most 2 team combos,

No one is going to be scared of attacking colossus in pvp because all his skills cost 9+ ap. The only good defensive characters in pvp are the ones that do something when they get attacked, like hulk or cmarvs, since ppl actually skip those types of teams. Against colossus, you can kill the swuishies before he even gets a chance to cast yellow, let alone black. Hes a fine transition character and probably pve tank, but he has no plac iin pvp outside of events that hes featured in.

Unknown

LnD-Rash wrote:

Phantron wrote:

That sounds like a bug because no special tile is supposed to function while they're inside the bubble.

Some do, some don't. Can't check it for sure right now since my Invisible Woman got downed, but I'm pretty sure while Strike Tiles do get suppressed, Protect Tiles don't... so it most likely just comes down to the Devs gut feeling about what should work and what not.

Is there some specific clarification about this? Because otherwise this could just as well be a tweak specifically geared towards Invisible Woman's tile, so that she can't combo with herself.

If that worked on a regular basis then Invisibility + Force Bubble = guaranteed win as you can do Invisibility and then lock up every yellow tile including the invisibility tile and there would be almost no way to ever get rid of it and you'll eventually win just because you can't die, even if it's just one person.

At 14 Yellow and 13 Blue AP I'd argue there's nothing wrong with that. With the same amount in Yellow/Green AP you can almost cast World Rupture and Sacrifice two times in a row... just to name the most obvious example.

Every special tile doesn't work while inside a bubble. It even says that on the locked status.

Unknown

You have a great game, and a lot of people like it. In addition, movies are the biggest enemy. The next four years will be very bad, and I heart Thanos.

Wolverine is probably the most famous twentieth the speed and power of the people. Apparently, I'm a big fan of X-Men, but I could not resist. As much as one-third will be strong enough, I think

theshadeofopal

So not terrible but not gonna be good enough to disrupt current tiers. Any one have any necessary buff suggestions beside?
1. Immovable should reduce strike tiles.

2. Fastball special should do around 3000 damage, increase ally damage accordingly to 300-600. Still nothing threatening at 13 ap but wouldn't be entirely garbage without a decent ability triggering.

Infrared

How about making Immovable Object give him stun resistance? A bit like how Colossus was in Capcom's X-Men:CotA when you activated his super armor move.

eidehua

Phantron wrote:

That sounds like a bug because no special tile is supposed to function while they're inside the bubble. If that worked on a regular basis then Invisibility + Force Bubble = guaranteed win as you can do Invisibility and then lock up every yellow tile including the invisibility tile and there would be almost no way to ever get rid of it and you'll eventually win just because you can't die, even if it's just one person.

Yeah probably a bug, it seems like the move to front feature for colossus only checks if the CD is present, not whether it is locked or not. Probably overlooked since this is so far the only case where keeping a CD tile up and paused is a good thing.

wymtime

I like the fact that when he uses his fastball special the person he throws does not get hurt while stunned. I had Colossus throw Patch and then Colossus got killed. AI made another match no damage to Patch and then Patch my last man standing hit TBTI and won the game for me. It might be expensive but with the right character Fastball Special can be a nice Hail Mary when a battle goes really long because of a bad board. He has great Health and his red at level 5 will be scary. I thin LThor, Colossus, Hood will be a very good Combo.

HailMary

I noticed a bug with Fastball Special that I'd love for someone to confirm or explicitly rebut:

When AI Colossus throws someone using Fastball Special, then gets killed while his teammate is Airborne, the teammate's power seems to trigger on the turn right after he dies, even if the Airborne counter has not ticked to 0 (or even 1). I saw this when Colossus threw Sentry 3-turn Airborne), fell to Sac Rupture on the very next turn, after which Sentry immediately hit me with a Supernova.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

I noticed a bug with Fastball Special that I'd love for someone to confirm or explicitly rebut:

When AI Colossus throws someone using Fastball Special, then gets killed while his teammate is Airborne, the teammate's power seems to trigger on the turn right after he dies, even if the Airborne counter has not ticked to 0 (or even 1). I saw this when Colossus threw Sentry 3-turn Airborne), fell to Sac Rupture on the very next turn, after which Sentry immediately hit me with a Supernova.

Yeah, i have fast balled and died and my wolvie came down immediately

Dauthi

Phantron wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Still not sure why I see so many people thinking that throwing characters like Daken would be worth it. This would do ~3-4k damage for 13 black AP, which is the same amount of damage that Torch does for effectively 6 red AP. You really need guys with overall high AP cost abilities to throw, and the only character that reliably has this is Fury: even characters like LazyThor and such have a chance of throwing out a super mediocre ability. Agreed with everything else, but black is definitely underwhelming, and should not be considered more than just a bonus ability. I see 5 yellow doing pretty okay in PvE, so my bet is on 5/5/3.

This is misleading. You can't compare a 6 ap cost ability to a gap between 2 abilities. Why? Finding a color is a lot harder after you have farmed it the entire game, especially 13 ap into a fight. Second, what if you don't get much of a specific color you are looking for but get plenty of black .

Yellow should definitely be at 5, I don't think players understand how valuable it is to see that (X) character is going to use (X) direct damage abiltity and have Colossus shoot up front and HALVE the damage into his enormous HP totals. Even defensively having Colossus (the tank) block all incoming attacks and halving damage for 5 turns is going to be insanely annoying. I don't think this will be realized until after everyone has to fight him with 5 yellow.

Black is pretty weak but if you got no other black users it's something to do with your AP. I had some games in the gauntlet where I had 30 AP on the two colors I don't need and while even a lousy move in those two colors would be better than nothing. That said I don't even see a point to raise black beyond level 3 even if it cost you nothing (as in you could get 5/5/5) because there's no advantage to get your guy back earlier unless he's someone with a strong passive (OBW, Daken, The Hood, and Falcon) but those guys don't make much sense to throw in the first place. You lose their match damage but they're immune to damage in air so you can use it to avoid damage done by AEs and there are some very strong ones too. I think 2 more turns of invulnerability has to be better than getting a guy's match damage back 2 turns earlier.

I disagree, I don't think it is weak, just mediocre when compared to strong blacks. It is usable if you need a black ability (I chucked Thor into the air today and gleefully called a storm with the bonus impact damage) and black abilities are a rare commodity. I think the problem is XF Wolvie is a given in any team and his black makes other blacks, in fact other abilities, look weak in comparison.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

I disagree, I don't think it is weak, just mediocre when compared to strong blacks. It is usable if you need a black ability (I chucked Thor into the air today and gleefully called a storm with the bonus impact damage) and black abilities are a rare commodity. I think the problem is XF Wolvie is a given in any team and his black makes other blacks, in fact other abilities, look weak in comparison.

Well the reality is that Surgical Strike is probably here to stay. The problem with really strong abilities/characters is that they set the standard for a color too high. COTS is another good example and the only thing that can compete with it is World Rupture and X Force. Aside from Rage of the Panther there's no black ability that's even situationally usable over Surgical Strike. This is probably due to an overall lack of balance. Fireball/Star Spangled Avenger doesn't prevent any other red spell from being used because HT lacks HP and Captain is slow in general, but no such drawback exist for X Force.

Unknown

Exactly Magneto, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Bullseye and Falcon all have better damage reduction abilities than Colossus.

Phaserhawk

Agreed, the problem with Surgical Strike is that it is too good. It basically is a 2 for 1 ability, because when I use it, chances are I'm gonna steal enough AP to use another ability as well. All I would do to this skill right now is tone down the damage per tile. In fact I would actually have lvl 3 dmg do more than lvl 5, that would give you an incentive to maybe go 5/3/5 and use him as a target nuke instead of an AP stealer/target nuke.

As for other black skills, yeah, aside from Rage of the Panther there is pretty much nothing else you would even remotely want to use over Surgical Strike. The only other outside possibilty would be Hypersonic Punch, it does very good damage and stuns for 2 turns, in situations where you can't use the color stolen by Surgical Strike, this would be another potential option, but, it also means you are running Marvel, and in this current meta, she doesn't quite cut it.

NorthernPolarity

Dauthi wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Still not sure why I see so many people thinking that throwing characters like Daken would be worth it. This would do ~3-4k damage for 13 black AP, which is the same amount of damage that Torch does for effectively 6 red AP. You really need guys with overall high AP cost abilities to throw, and the only character that reliably has this is Fury: even characters like LazyThor and such have a chance of throwing out a super mediocre ability. Agreed with everything else, but black is definitely underwhelming, and should not be considered more than just a bonus ability. I see 5 yellow doing pretty okay in PvE, so my bet is on 5/5/3.

This is misleading. You can't compare a 6 ap cost ability to a gap between 2 abilities. Why? Finding a color is a lot harder after you have farmed it the entire game, especially 13 ap into a fight. Second, what if you don't get much of a specific color you are looking for but get plenty of black .

Yellow should definitely be at 5, I don't think players understand how valuable it is to see that (X) character is going to use (X) direct damage abiltity and have Colossus shoot up front and HALVE the damage into his enormous HP totals. Even defensively having Colossus (the tank) block all incoming attacks and halving damage for 5 turns is going to be insanely annoying. I don't think this will be realized until after everyone has to fight him with 5 yellow.

Black is pretty weak but if you got no other black users it's something to do with your AP. I had some games in the gauntlet where I had 30 AP on the two colors I don't need and while even a lousy move in those two colors would be better than nothing. That said I don't even see a point to raise black beyond level 3 even if it cost you nothing (as in you could get 5/5/5) because there's no advantage to get your guy back earlier unless he's someone with a strong passive (OBW, Daken, The Hood, and Falcon) but those guys don't make much sense to throw in the first place. You lose their match damage but they're immune to damage in air so you can use it to avoid damage done by AEs and there are some very strong ones too. I think 2 more turns of invulnerability has to be better than getting a guy's match damage back 2 turns earlier.

I disagree, I don't think it is weak, just mediocre when compared to strong blacks. It is usable if you need a black ability (I chucked Thor into the air today and gleefully called a storm with the bonus impact damage) and black abilities are a rare commodity. I think the problem is XF Wolvie is a given in any team and his black makes other blacks, in fact other abilities, look weak in comparison.

I wouldn't really say that black abilities are that rare anymore. Looking at the black abilities in the game on 166 3*s, we have X-Force, BP, Torch, Punisher, Mohawk, C. Marvel, Psylocke, Hood, Colossus

Just based off of pure power level on an average team, I would probably rate these black abilities in the following tiers:
Amazing: X-Force, BP
Good: Psylocke, C. Marvel, Mohawk, Punisher
Mediocre: Torch, Hood, Colossus

The ability is of course usable, but just like how thunderous clap is usable, I think calling it weak (which is one step above unplayable) is reasonable considering how almost all of the other black abilities in the game are better than it.

wymtime

When you look at Colossus black it is all dependent on your roster. If you have a lot of 3* it can be awsome depending on who he throws : LThor, Lcap, Patch, Sentry, Deadpool, Iron man(potentially), Fury. It can be a very good offensive wepon late in the game.

If you are transitioning and you don't have a deep 3* team, and your team has a lot of black users: Psy, Pun, BP, Doom, Storm it is hard to push forward with this ability. Becuase the character in the air does not take damage I would say this is a middle tier black. As a stand alone it really needs the right characters. If you pair him with LThor/Deadpool and Hood you can protect hood on everything but blue and throw Thor/Deadpool for huge combo's. If you paid him with Psylock he nedds to throw out his yellow as fast as possible to protect everyone.
The good news is he plays well with a lot of characters and has high health. He is a very good red when he is out front, and Yellow and Black will really depend on who he plays with. Black costs a lot, and yellow is all defense. His best build is who do you want him playing with and that gives him a lot of flexability and makes him really solid. I don't think I can say top tier yet but he is close.

Phaserhawk

While you are correct it can be a good offensive weapon, you have to think about what you are giving up to match black.

Say you have Patch and Fury. What are your primary colors for matching going to be?

If you say Black is first, what's second? Lets say you pick one color from each character. So Black/Green/Yellow. By doing so you are now giving up red for matches, and the AI has a higher chance now of collecting them. Because Green/Yellow/Red are so good, if you don't match these, you are giving them to the AI, if you run X-Force you are okay, because if you force Black and cast surgical strike you can take their primary color away, so in this situatioon black is essentially matching 2 colors because you will steal and gain the strongest color of the enemy.

And to me the only character worth throwing everytime would be Thor and maybe Patch (if he is matching 3 colors) but if I have Thor, I'm probably not going to be running Colossus since I want Thor's yellow and red and not Colossus'. He'll find his place, but right now he's just a really good PvE character.

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

And to me the only character worth throwing everytime would be Thor and maybe Patch (if he is matching 3 colors) but if I have Thor, I'm probably not going to be running Colossus since I want Thor's yellow and red and not Colossus'. He'll find his place, but right now he's just a really good PvE character.

I had a lot of success running Colossus w/ Rogers. While there's overlap there also, 13 black launching Rogers meant free ability. This either gets his yellow off at a cheaper cost, or launches a shield for free, meaning the 13 black quickly converts to blue/red. It doesn't put them in the top tier by any means, but there's some decent synergy there. Question as usual is speed, but if you put them with a heavy green user, that's a lot of colors to deny.

NorthernPolarity

wymtime wrote:

When you look at Colossus black it is all dependent on your roster. If you have a lot of 3* it can be awsome depending on who he throws : LThor, Lcap, Patch, Sentry, Deadpool, Iron man(potentially), Fury. It can be a very good offensive wepon late in the game.

If you are transitioning and you don't have a deep 3* team, and your team has a lot of black users: Psy, Pun, BP, Doom, Storm it is hard to push forward with this ability. Becuase the character in the air does not take damage I would say this is a middle tier black. As a stand alone it really needs the right characters. If you pair him with LThor/Deadpool and Hood you can protect hood on everything but blue and throw Thor/Deadpool for huge combo's. If you paid him with Psylock he nedds to throw out his yellow as fast as possible to protect everyone.
The good news is he plays well with a lot of characters and has high health. He is a very good red when he is out front, and Yellow and Black will really depend on who he plays with. Black costs a lot, and yellow is all defense. His best build is who do you want him playing with and that gives him a lot of flexability and makes him really solid. I don't think I can say top tier yet but he is close.

Patch is miserable because Colossus tanks red/yellow for him at max level, meaning that TBTI does nothing.
LThor/Deadpool have a 67% / 50% of landing a devestating ability, and a 33% / 50% of landing an average red ability, which is very inconsistent.

In PvP, the only way Colossus would get a spot on your team is if your team needed a strong red, and if you can reliably get his red off without casting yellow first, meaning that the featured character or the other character on your team can't tank Colossus's colors. Yellow is irrelevant in PvP when it's all about kill speed, and black is either inconsistent in the best case scenario, or mediocre to weak in the worst case scenario.

Another way to look at this is that in PvP, Colossus is a character with one good ability (red) and two situational abilities (black / yellow) A character that has a single good (not overpowered) ability and two situational/mediocre abilities cannot really be high tier in PvP (every single character in top tier either has 2 good abilities, or at least 1 good ability + true healing) because that single good ability isn't enough to pull his weight on a high-end PvP team (see LazyCap). The only exception to this general rule is if that one ability is so good that it's broken (Hood blue/ pre-nerf C. Mags blue/recon), but red clearly isn't comparable to those.

I will say that the character is probably a lot better in PvE when his yellow will actually end up being pretty useful, but as a whole the character is definitely mid-tier, and not much higher. I would rather take LazyCap over him in both PvE and PvP, and LazyCap is mid-tier as well.