junshengkeh wrote: Not everyone is in the same plight. I had a mid-level Doom before and I could not get anywhere near to 250 points. I can finish a battle in 2-3 minutes, and I come out to 2 or more attacks every single time. I count myself lucky to get 150 points.
Misguided wrote: Who in the world said anything about Ragnarok? If you are seeing high-level Ragnaroks you can tank your matchmaking rating.
panthroq wrote: I have not scored more than 100 points in any lightning round this week due to the high volume of high level rag. I thought that was how one does tank their rating.. Yet I've seen no change after 2 days of winning 1 match per lightning round. I like how you dodged the issue here, that rag is making the game unplayable for anyone that doesn't have one.. But you do, so I'm not surprised.
Toxicadam wrote: junshengkeh wrote: Not everyone is in the same plight. I had a mid-level Doom before and I could not get anywhere near to 250 points. I can finish a battle in 2-3 minutes, and I come out to 2 or more attacks every single time. I count myself lucky to get 150 points. This seems impossible to me. In 1 1/2 hours the best you can do is win 5-6 battles (25-30 points each)? Sorry dude, I just don't buy it. Especially if you (and you should) be using max AP boosts for each match.
panthroq wrote: And I'm sorry but I am telling the truth in regards to not scoring more than 100 points in any round and it having zero affect on the following round.
junshengkeh wrote: Even if I start on the dot, I'd start getting hit by lower point value players about half an hour into the tournament. And then the flurry of attacks start. Yeah, I count myself lucky to get the 150 pt reward.
Toxicadam wrote: I don't have a Rag (just a mid-level Doom) and I am able to finish anywhere from 25-200th place in all of these lightning rounds. I can even finish top 20 if I wanted to, but many of those covers I already have.
ihearthawthats wrote: Taken out of context: Except that high level Rag players also tank their ratings. In context: 250 progression and diabolical token rewards are very doable without seeing Rags. Past that and you'll bound to see a few.
ihearthawthats wrote: junshengkeh wrote: Even if I start on the dot, I'd start getting hit by lower point value players about half an hour into the tournament. And then the flurry of attacks start. Yeah, I count myself lucky to get the 150 pt reward. What's your team?
Misguided wrote: Toxicadam wrote: junshengkeh wrote: Not everyone is in the same plight. I had a mid-level Doom before and I could not get anywhere near to 250 points. I can finish a battle in 2-3 minutes, and I come out to 2 or more attacks every single time. I count myself lucky to get 150 points. This seems impossible to me. In 1 1/2 hours the best you can do is win 5-6 battles (25-30 points each)? Sorry dude, I just don't buy it. Especially if you (and you should) be using max AP boosts for each match. If his rating has gotten high enough, it is entirely possible he's seeing high level Rags from the first fight. This is exactly the reason why people started tanking ratings in the first place. The matchmaking system leaves a lot to be desired and it can put you in a lousy situation with no way out. When you get matched up with vastly superior teams, you hit the skip button. You don't think "hey, I should lose to these guys so I can get matches more appropriate for my team" so it is a vicious cycle.
Elementalor wrote: Misguided wrote: Toxicadam wrote: junshengkeh wrote: Not everyone is in the same plight. I had a mid-level Doom before and I could not get anywhere near to 250 points. I can finish a battle in 2-3 minutes, and I come out to 2 or more attacks every single time. I count myself lucky to get 150 points. This seems impossible to me. In 1 1/2 hours the best you can do is win 5-6 battles (25-30 points each)? Sorry dude, I just don't buy it. Especially if you (and you should) be using max AP boosts for each match. If his rating has gotten high enough, it is entirely possible he's seeing high level Rags from the first fight. This is exactly the reason why people started tanking ratings in the first place. The matchmaking system leaves a lot to be desired and it can put you in a lousy situation with no way out. When you get matched up with vastly superior teams, you hit the skip button. You don't think "hey, I should lose to these guys so I can get matches more appropriate for my team" so it is a vicious cycle. Yup, this is completely the case. That's exactly what happens when you don't tank, you see a bunch of lvl100 teams from the first match set. I don't even see the seeder teams if I don't tank in a previous round.(and I only just started to be able to compete for top 8 this week)
panthroq wrote: Elementalor wrote: Yup, this is completely the case. That's exactly what happens when you don't tank, you see a bunch of lvl100 teams from the first match set. I don't even see the seeder teams if I don't tank in a previous round.(and I only just started to be able to compete for top 8 this week) OK, this explains why there is no competition anymore at the top, people who aren't abusing the system get trapped and bottlenecked at the bottom. I was informed Ice doesn't see this as abuse, but it most definitely is.
Elementalor wrote: Yup, this is completely the case. That's exactly what happens when you don't tank, you see a bunch of lvl100 teams from the first match set. I don't even see the seeder teams if I don't tank in a previous round.(and I only just started to be able to compete for top 8 this week)
panthroq wrote: OK, this explains why there is no competition anymore at the top, people who aren't abusing the system get trapped and bottlenecked at the bottom. I was informed Ice doesn't see this as abuse, but it most definitely is.
Zathrus wrote: Anyone want to shoot holes in my idea for level-based match making? For limited entry tournaments (e.g. -- Dark Avengers) it would be based on the average level of all your characters. For less limited ones it would be based on the top 6 heroes you have. Matchmaking would show people with similar teams within +/- 5 levels, with "escape hatches" in the code to increase the scope if the pool became too small, either because there's too few people near your level or too few with enough points to be worthwhile (perhaps in such a situation it should spin up appropriate dummy AI teams, similar to the seeder teams?).
Zathrus wrote: Anyone want to shoot holes in my idea for level-based match making? For limited entry tournaments (e.g. -- Dark Avengers) it would be based on the average level of all your characters. For less limited ones it would be based on the top 6 heroes you have. Matchmaking would show people with similar teams within +/- 5 levels, with "escape hatches" in the code to increase the scope if the pool became too small, either because there's too few people near your level or too few with enough points to be worthwhile (perhaps in such a situation it should spin up appropriate dummy AI teams, similar to the seeder teams?). Added to that fix the scoring so that you only lose, at most, 90% of the points that an opponent takes from you and that would go a long ways toward improving things I think.
Zathrus wrote: panthroq wrote: OK, this explains why there is no competition anymore at the top, people who aren't abusing the system get trapped and bottlenecked at the bottom. I was informed Ice doesn't see this as abuse, but it most definitely is. He stated it wasn't abusive because such a small portion of the userbase is doing it. I'd be all for eliminating it as a tactic, but that requires significant changes to the matchmaking system, and those are going to be long in coming. Changing such an important part of the game is non-trivial. Ultimately the issue with the matchmaking system is that players can end up in a situation where the matches being offered are too hard (or they perceive them to be too hard; even in the Lightning rounds you can probably defeat any team you want because the AI is so bad; it may require more than one try, and your heroes will probably be pretty bad off afterwards, but it's possible), so they don't enter PvP, which means that nobody else plays them either, which means their rating can never go down... it's a poor cycle.