*** Beast (Classic) ***

mischiefmaker

The problem with making any team healing skill be true healing is that the introduction of such a skill immediately brings prologue healing back into play as a viable and important tactic, so it's a nonstarter unless you also have a suggestion that prevents prologue healing.

(Where by "prologue healing", I mean "playing for the sole purpose of healing", not necessarily in the prologue.)

CrookedKnight

At the very least it should place the special tiles on the four closest blank color tiles, starting at each corner, so if only one of the four diagonal spots is available it will keep searching for an open space, instead of "Welp, RNG put me in a corner, no more tiles for you. Thanks for the AP!"

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

It will never happen. D3 has a delusional belief that temp-healing is a great ability.

Temp healing illustrates the glaring disjunction for how D3 perceives the game compared to how players perceive the game.

You'd think so, but the yellow cover was also doubled up in the PvP as an alliance award, which traditionally gives the worst cover for each character. This would seem to suggest that the devs are aware that Beast's yellow is no good (aka least likely to entice people to buy with $).

I do agree with the sentiment that the devs don't play their own game.

CrookedKnight

There's never going to be an AOE true healing ability because it breaks the recovery timer mechanic. I didn't start playing the game until after the change was made but I have no idea why anyone would have ever used a health pack outside of revival if they could just prologue heal with OBW's blue.

Unknown

CrookedKnight wrote:

There's never going to be an AOE true healing ability because it breaks the recovery timer mechanic. I didn't start playing the game until after the change was made but I have no idea why anyone would have ever used a health pack outside of revival if they could just prologue heal with OBW's blue.

Because it takes time, which you don't have, if you are pushing in PvP or clearing PvE nodes at event/sub end.

Wetzilla

No. No character should be allowed to true heal other characters because that creates an incredible inbalance in the meta where you are essentially forced to use that character or you just won't be able to place as highly in tournaments as people who do use them, as they can grind out an infinite amount of matches if they're good. Before the True Healing patch I basically never ran out of health packs, and could just continue grinding away at matches for as long as I had time to play. And you had to, because that's what everyone else was doing. True Healing other characters benefits players who have more time over players who are more skilled.

CrookedKnight

(As an aside, I just found out today, after hitting the Loki reward on dailies, four level 94 2* characters, placing top-10 in multiple PvEs, building up a 30-person roster, etc, etc, that the health pack "recharge" means you get free packs when you dip below 5. I thought it meant they stopped working at full strength after you used too many! I am the fail.)

theshadeofopal

Just temporarily replace all fake heals with a same color onslaught or some other decent but not great uncontroversial ability. It's **** from a thematic point of view but its clearly gonna take a helluva a lot longer to actually fix or replace the burst heal abilities and in the meantime it'll help see a few more characters actually get fielded.

Unknown

Beast, Spidey, obw, she-hulk shouldn't have true heals. They shouldn't have heals of any kind at all.

If they implement a healer class, they need to make health event independent. So you can't prologue heal for pvp. Instead you have to bring your healer into a real pvp fight.

Unknown

There is absolutely zero chance that they would make just one healer a real healer and leave all the rest alone. Never going to happen and there's no reason for it to.

I agree with the previous post too, they should just remove healing altogether at this point. It's just a waste of a power slot now.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

[anchor=beast3]Beast (Classic)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare) Wiki link.
At Max Level: HP: 6800 Tile damage: 70/13/79/12/61/11

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Green AP
Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. Creates a 3 turn Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 4 surrounding basic tiles into random special tiles with strength 22.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 2 turn cooldown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 1 turn cooldown

Max Level: 4 strength 105 special tiles

Animal Inside - Green 9 AP
Jumping and slashing as he moves through enemies, Hank can barely control his animal side. Deals 137 damage to all enemies. If there's a friendly Blue special tile on the board, Beast smashes up his lab destroying 3 random tiles, each dealing 33 to all enemies but not generating AP.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: 164 damage to all enemies Level 3: Destroys 6 random tiles Level 4: 219 damage to all enemies Level 5: Destroys 12 random tiles

Max Level: 696 damage / 12 tiles destroyed at 104 damage each

Medical Marvel - Yellow 11 AP
Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to patch up the team before they rush back into battle. Gives a burst of 274 health to allies. If there's a friendly Blue speical tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid them. 1 Yellow tiles become strength 16 Protect tiles.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gives a burst of 356 health to allies. Level 3: Inceases to 2 Protect tiles. Level 4: Gives a burst of 493 health to allies. Level 5: Inceases to 3 strength 21 Protect tiles.

Max Level: 1564 healing / 3 strength 69 Protect tiles

Let's just take the max levels.

8 Blue AP = Max Level: 4 strength 105 special tiles after 1 turn countdown
9 Green AP = Max Level: 696 damage / 12 tiles destroyed at 104 damage each
11 Yellow AP = Max Level: 1564 healing / 3 strength 69 Protect tiles


First off, let's talk about the yellow power. No matter how you look at it, it's ****. 1564 healing? I'm sorry, but I can get damn near that much for 9AP on OBW, and she's a 2*. And has two really good other powers. 207 in protect tiles isn't awful, but nobody's ever going to run this at 3 covers, so instead what you'll end up with is two protect tiles and considerably less healing. This needs to be considerably stronger, or reworked. Or better yet, completely redone. Healing in this game is ****. It has to be really great to be even worth considering. Anti-gravity device is really, REALLY good as a healer - in its tier, it's between 1/5th and half of the health pool for each of your team members for 9AP, with the added side-effect that it will mess up countdown tiles. And even then, could you even consider running a character for that skill? No. It doesn't help you on offense. At best, it'll help you not lose as much life. Healing, as it currently stands, is really, really lousy. Now consider how much 1564 is for a 3* team. Depending on your team, that's at the very best around 1/5th of your life total. More often, it'll be closer to 1/7th. That's really not that much - that's a few turns of match damage or half of a cheap power. It either needs to be way more substantial, or it needs to be completely changed.

Green is... well, I'm of the opinion that his green is actually pretty good. If you have that special tile, it's almost 6k damage, total, for 9AP. That's pretty damn good. Without the tile, though, it's barely above 2k - pathetic. And keep in mind this is the same color as Berserker Rage, Call the Storm, Judgment, and World Rupture. The list of characters with better active green skills basically runs around the block. And if that's his only good color... Well, why would you run him instead of Punpun, Thor, or Sentry, all of whom have three awesome active powers? And of course, you need that tile. Which brings me to this.

Blue. Blue is everything wrong with this character in a nutshell. Just out of curiosity - what would have been wrong with saying "You can just have these four tiles"? Too good? Look, pal, for less AP, Punisher gets over 300 damage in strike tiles instantly, plus board disruption, and the strike tiles are not all clustered together in way that screams "INSERT TWIN PISTOLS/PISTOL/SNIPER RIFLE/GODLIKE POWER HERE". Strike tiles are simply better than attack or defense tiles. Instead, you have to baby a countdown tile (which is randomly placed - you can't choose where it goes) in order to use any of his other powers. In fact, you have to have 8 blue AP in order to use any of his other powers. Or you run him with C.Mag-oh wait. The point is, it's cool to have a hero whose powers depend on each other. It's not cool for the key enabler power to be so conditional and so ****. When I run sentry, I necessarily have to leave my enemies one turn to get rid of my Sacrifice tile before WR goes off. Even with an AI opponent, they pull it off at least one out of three times. With a human opponent? The point is that this needs to not suck as much. It's the only reason any of his other skills have any merit, and even if it didn't have a countdown timer, it'd still be only decent. What the heck?

Beast is bad. He's yet another 3* with barely one usable power (in a highly contested color) and some utility that just doesn't work. Stop trying to make healing work, D3 - it's never going to work. If his green was almost any other color except red, he would be playable. If his blue had no countdown, he would be decent. If his yellow was actually even remotely useful, he might be good. So how do we handle this? Well... Try this.

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Green AP
Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. Creates a 2 turn Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 4 random basic tiles into random blue special tiles with strength 22.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 1 turn cooldown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 0 turn cooldown

Max Level: 4 strength 75 special tiles

Animal Inside - Purple 9 AP
Jumping and slashing as he moves through enemies, Hank can barely control his animal side. Deals 137 damage to all enemies. If there's a friendly Blue special tile on the board, Beast smashes up his lab destroying 3 random tiles, each dealing 33 to all enemies but not generating AP.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: 164 damage to all enemies Level 3: Destroys 6 random tiles Level 4: 219 damage to all enemies Level 5: Destroys 12 random tiles

Max Level: 696 damage / 12 tiles destroyed at 104 damage each

Scientific Marvel - Yellow 11 AP
Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to strengthen up the team before they rush back into battle. Heals allies for 275. If there's a friendly Blue special tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid them. 1 Blue tiles become strength 16 Strike tiles.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gives a burst of 356 health to allies. Level 3: Inceases to 2 Strike tiles. Level 4: Gives a burst of 493 health to allies. Level 5: Inceases to 3 strength 21 Strike tiles.

Max Level: 1564 healing / 3 strength 69 Strike tiles

What does this mean? Well, first off, the blue is a little weaker to make up for its resilience, but at max level will instantly drop a bunch of blue special tiles all over the board, making it hard to clean them off. The green has been moved to a color in desperate need of a few decent skills. AOE damage is a purple thing, and so is board manipulation. To a degree, anyways. Green already has way too many good active skills; purple has... uh... Three? The yellow is still meh, but now it creates strike tiles - infinitely more handy than attack tiles. Oh, and they're blue, so that you have more blue special tiles to work with. Like this, Beast would be something of a force to be reckoned with. He could put out solid strike tiles, has active skills in two rare colors and a third which is surprisingly uncommon, and he still wouldn't be anywhere near as busted as Daken, Sentry, Patch, or Thor. This would be, yanno, a solid character. As he is, he's garbage. Please buff him?

NorthernPolarity

They need to decrease ap costs on healing abilities in order for them to be viable: theyre still overcosting these abilities as if they were true healing. Turning them into shields and allow you to shield past the characters max hp would also be a welcome buff: doing this would also get rid of this confusing "burst" of healing and "true healing" nonsense. Healing vs shielding a lot more intuitive especially since burst of healing behavior is essentially shielding except you cant go past your hp cap. Some designer is probably going to arguing that shielding doesnt fit the flavor of the abilities, but screw the flavor i say! The benefits of this change (less confusion and makes more sense while being easy to implement to boot) probably make it worth to change the abilities flavor from "web bandages" to "web shield".

Unknown

I love this forum. Seeing the awesome ideas and work that people put into trying to improve this game impresses me greatly.

Unknown

I think team healing abilities should at least true heal the guy who uses it if they insist on this true healing ****.

Unknown

Well, let's be fair - at this point, this thread is about as meaningful to the game as the fan fiction "Angry Passionate Hate Sex" is to the MLP canon. But hey - it's just throwing ideas out there. Honestly, I think destroying 12+ tiles with a purple ability might be a little off-color. Maybe there's a better way to handle making it purple... But for christ's sake, give us some decent purple 3* abilities. It's kinda silly at this point.

NorthernPolarity

Beast definitely needs some help, but i feel like these changes deviate too far from the original design of the character.
1. Im assuming that your original post has a typo and you didnt want to change beasts blue to green.
2. I dont really get the colorshift from green to purple. Yeah, the game needs more purples and has more than enough greens, but the abilities flavor doesnt really fit with purple. Another battle for another time i think.
3. Making beasts blue into this would just turn it into another judgement/battleplan, and sort of takes away the uniqueness of the cd tile. I like keeping the 1 turn cd and would look at something like just change the tile placement to be random to keep the original design.
4. Instead of defaulting to strike tiles always > protect tiles, why dont we brainstorm on how we can keep the ability more similar to its original incarnation with it being actually balanced. I think something like a reduction to 9 ap + 2.3k healing would be closer to balanced.

Unknown

Also keep in mind that Beasts Green gets buffed off ANY friendly blue special tile. So there's that as well.

Unknown

Well they all can't be winners! # badsanta

Unknown

SirKopath wrote:

Also keep in mind that Beasts Green gets buffed off ANY friendly blue special tile. So there's that as well.

Right, and with all the characters who make blue special tiles...

...Oh wait. There's Black Panther, and... Uh...

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Beast definitely needs some help, but i feel like these changes deviate too far from the original design of the character.
1. Im assuming that your original post has a typo and you didnt want to change beasts blue to green.

Nope.

2. I dont really get the colorshift from green to purple. Yeah, the game needs more purples and has more than enough greens, but the abilities flavor doesnt really fit with purple. Another battle for another time i think.

Because the last thing we need is another great 3* green. Make it literally any other color but red, but for christ's sake, not another one. Something like half the viable 3*s are RGY. All of those have amazing greens.

3. Making beasts blue into this would just turn it into another judgement/battleplan, and sort of takes away the uniqueness of the cd tile. I like keeping the 1 turn cd and would look at something like just change the tile placement to be random to keep the original design.

Uniqueness is nice, but if you're going to put that risk in there (a randomly placed CD tile is incredibly easy to screw with), you need a much bigger reward.

4. Instead of defaulting to strike tiles always > protect tiles, why dont we brainstorm on how we can keep the ability more similar to its original incarnation with it being actually balanced. I think something like a reduction to 9 ap + 2.3k healing would be closer to balanced.

That's probably fine, but the issue remains that healing is just not very good. I guess at 9AP it would be a lot better (closer to the only healing ability that is anywhere near decent)...

Unknown

SirKopath wrote:

Also keep in mind that Beasts Green gets buffed off ANY friendly blue special tile. So there's that as well.

So, Black Panther, Captain America and Hawkeye may actually work okay with him. But then you're doubling up on blue actives anyway.