*** Beast (Classic) ***

Nonce Equitaur 2

Yikes, where did I copy Beast from to get so many typos? I fixed those in the compendium.

Nobody wants to play an in-game healer. Spending 4 turns to collect the power necessary to trigger this ability basically means you'll be able to heal a third of the damage taken while collecting the power necessary for it.

A healing passive might be interesting.

Medical Marvel - Yellow Passive
Dr. McCoy uses his medical triage skills to patch up his team. He gives a 100 health healing treatment to the most injured team member any time he matches his icons. If there's a friendly Blue special tile on the board, he makes a Strength 10 blue protection tile in a random location.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Gives a burst of 150 health to the most injured team member. Level 3: Also adds 1 Blue AP to Hank's team. Level 4: He also does triage any time the enemy team makes a blue match. Level 5: Increases to a strength 21 Protect tile.

Max Level: 500 healing / 1 strength 69 Protect tile

Unknown

Woo. First Post/Reply/TextThingy.

I did a quick analysis of Beast's heal based on the info here at the forums. Upon comparison, Beast's heal isn't that bad. It's the second best group healing power in the game (Spider-Man's is the best) for actual healing power. The cost is on par with the others (11-12 AP for all the healing powers), which can be assumed that it takes three to four matches to fuel it. It heals 23% of the average max health of the 3 star characters (6800 is the mode and median average), so it's either over-healing, late-use in the game or assuming you're going into a battle injured. Really what makes all the healing powers distinct are their secondary effects (except Spidey's since his pure healing). OBW has a great secondary of increasing 'all' countdown timers, which can increase most CD powers by 100% to 400%, and effectively counters The Hood's black power completely. She-Hulk's power is a unique green-powered AP reduction which is like a weak AP theft power since it only targets two colours and you don't get the AP. It also doesn't help that there are way better green powers out there. Aside: She-Hulk is special to Beast though since she is only other 79 Blue tile damage character, and she either Tanks or Supports Beast in blue and green depending on placement, so it would seem that D3 either wants you to be able to swap them out for each other on team diversity, or they want you to use them together (which would be silly since they are both healers and have two competing power sets (ie. Why use her green when his is better, and her blue hurts his blue). Beast's secondary is three yellow 69 strength protect tiles. Which compared the other powers that give out protect tiles, it's not bad. The best being either Steve Rogers' yellow or Falcon's purple (both are either late-game, or a combo moves), and being on par with Black Panther's, cMagneto's, or Spidey's. Probably the best suggestion would be making the protect tiles, blue so that combo with the rest of his powers.

So TL/DR... Beast's heal is probably working as intended and isn't that bad. Sure thematically the temp heal at first glance is unusual since he is the only MD in MPQ, but as someone pointed out True Healing is for those that have regenerative powers. If the community really wanted Dr. McCoy to true heal without becoming game-breaking, then I would suggest a combo of yellow Wolvie's healing (under 50% max health), and refreshing CD tile that true heals a small amount each turn. Also since the Beast tanks cStorm maybe base the min health percentage off her yellow passive. So that the 2 star to 3 star transitioning can use him to lead/tank with the mNowMags, OBW, or cStorm teams. And now that 2*Daken has a blue power you can swap him in that combo group.

Anyways... just thoughts.

-Dach Ibi of Total Carnage.

OnesOwnGrief

Just praying we don't get X-23. We'd end up with yet another true healing discussion.

Pylgrim

DaChibi wrote:

Woo. First Post/Reply/TextThingy.

I did a quick analysis of Beast's heal based on the info here at the forums. Upon comparison, Beast's heal isn't that bad. It's the second best group healing power in the game (Spider-Man's is the best) for actual healing power. The cost is on par with the others (11-12 AP for all the healing powers), which can be assumed that it takes three to four matches to fuel it. It heals 23% of the average max health of the 3 star characters (6800 is the mode and median average), so it's either over-healing, late-use in the game or assuming you're going into a battle injured. Really what makes all the healing powers distinct are their secondary effects (except Spidey's since his pure healing). OBW has a great secondary of increasing 'all' countdown timers, which can increase most CD powers by 100% to 400%, and effectively counters The Hood's black power completely. She-Hulk's power is a unique green-powered AP reduction which is like a weak AP theft power since it only targets two colours and you don't get the AP. It also doesn't help that there are way better green powers out there. Aside: She-Hulk is special to Beast though since she is only other 79 Blue tile damage character, and she either Tanks or Supports Beast in blue and green depending on placement, so it would seem that D3 either wants you to be able to swap them out for each other on team diversity, or they want you to use them together (which would be silly since they are both healers and have two competing power sets (ie. Why use her green when his is better, and her blue hurts his blue). Beast's secondary is three yellow 69 strength protect tiles. Which compared the other powers that give out protect tiles, it's not bad. The best being either Steve Rogers' yellow or Falcon's purple (both are either late-game, or a combo moves), and being on par with Black Panther's, cMagneto's, or Spidey's. Probably the best suggestion would be making the protect tiles, blue so that combo with the rest of his powers.

So TL/DR... Beast's heal is probably working as intended and isn't that bad. Sure thematically the temp heal at first glance is unusual since he is the only MD in MPQ, but as someone pointed out True Healing is for those that have regenerative powers. If the community really wanted Dr. McCoy to true heal without becoming game-breaking, then I would suggest a combo of yellow Wolvie's healing (under 50% max health), and refreshing CD tile that true heals a small amount each turn. Also since the Beast tanks cStorm maybe base the min health percentage off her yellow passive. So that the 2 star to 3 star transitioning can use him to lead/tank with the mNowMags, OBW, or cStorm teams. And now that 2*Daken has a blue power you can swap him in that combo group.

Anyways... just thoughts.

-Dach Ibi of Total Carnage.

It doesn't matter that it is good compared to other healing abilities when healing, by definition, is bad. It is only useful defensively (read, annoying to the attacker) but in offence, when you are seeking to reduce the HP of your opponent's characters down to 0 as fast as possible, collecting and spending AP to heal yourself momentarily is useless and counterproductive unless that you a) randomly managed to collect the necessary AP, and b) are about to die and need to buy yourself some time to maybe steal the win. That occurs less times than what you'd think because one tries to put together teams to maximise effectiveness so you either win or get ridic-cascaded and lose irremediably. Funnily enough, one of the ways you make a team that maximises effectiveness with the covers you have is by NOT including characters with dead abilities... such as healing.

Healing is fine if the character in question has two other very powerful abilities (see OBW and pre-nerf Spidey). I think everyone here agrees that the true problem with beast is his super random, unreliable and ultimately weak blue and the fact that green without a blue tile is one of the weakest damaging abilities in 3* land. If both those abilities were solid, people would just disregard the healing and play the character and then maybe healing will get to be useful to them in defence. As it is now, there's no reason whatsoever to include Beast in your team.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Blue AP
Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. Creates a 3 turn special Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 4 surrounding basic tiles into random special tiles with strength 22.

Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 2 turn countdown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 1 turn countdown

Max Level: 4 strength 105 special tiles

I added one word to make this more interesting .... making a Mutagenic Breakthrough countdown itself a special tile. Thus, the counter could randomly make copies of itself, in addition to strike, protect, and attack tiles.

Ludaa

He needs help for sure, and there are some great ideas in here. Blue special tiles need a better method of deployment to stay on the board longer. Yellow...how about a new kind of tile that casts a HOT like in mmo's, it could even have charges that act just like a countdown! Maybe it heals whoever is in front for one tick, and make it cheap to cast.

Kind of a sad thought, any new character that doesn't beat or counter Sentry/Hood/Daken/LThor will not be worth spending resources on for a lot of long time players. I can't think of a reason D3 wouldn't want to appeal to the very top of the player base, and have the interest trickle down to new players. As is, Beast will ONLY appeal to non veterans who might not know any better or just love Beast.

Unknown

That Blue - Green mix up is going to haunt you forever Nonce.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Green AP
Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. Creates a 3 turn special Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 4 surrounding basic tiles into random special tiles with strength 22.

Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 2 turn countdown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 1 turn countdown

Max Level: 4 strength 105 special tiles

I added one word to make this more interesting .... making a Mutagenic Breakthrough countdown itself a special tile. Thus, the counter could randomly make copies of itself, in addition to strike, protect, and attack tiles.

This would be kinda awesome.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Green AP
Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. Creates a 3 turn special Blue Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 4 surrounding basic tiles into random special tiles with strength 22.

Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 2 turn countdown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 1 turn countdown

Max Level: 4 strength 105 special tiles

I added one word to make this more interesting .... making a Mutagenic Breakthrough countdown itself a special tile. Thus, the counter could randomly make copies of itself, in addition to strike, protect, and attack tiles.

This would be kinda awesome, except it would result in exploding cascading blue as the countdowns went off. Wouldn't actually make more blue specials.

Unknown

Wetzilla wrote:

No. No character should be allowed to true heal other characters because that creates an incredible inbalance in the meta where you are essentially forced to use that character or you just won't be able to place as highly in tournaments as people who do use them, as they can grind out an infinite amount of matches if they're good. Before the True Healing patch I basically never ran out of health packs, and could just continue grinding away at matches for as long as I had time to play. And you had to, because that's what everyone else was doing. True Healing other characters benefits players who have more time over players who are more skilled.

This here is the problem. There will never be a True Healing group heal. Reguardless of how the power is actually worded.

IceIX wrote:

New feature: True Healing

Characters receive true healing if their powers heal their wounds. Character powers that ease combat but don't heal wounds provide temporary health. - The following abilities are considered true healing:

- Ares (Dark Avengers): Sunder - This ability is more a moment of weakness than actual damage, so Ares gains health back when the weakness passes. - Daken (Classic) and (Dark Avengers Wolverine): Healing & Heat - Wolverine (Patch) and (Astonishing X-Men): Healing Factor - Wolverine (X-Force): Recovery

- The following abilities are considered temporary healing:

- Black Widow (Original): Anti-Gravity Device - This ability uses gravitic fields that lets heroes fight more easily despite injuries. It doesn't heal them of these injuries however. - Spider-Man (Classic): Web Bandages - These bandages help heroes fight through pain but do not provide actual healing. - She-Hulk (Modern): Reprieve – She-Hulk allows for the team to take a rest from combat for a moment and gather their strength but does not heal any wounds.

Hank's power description lends itself really well to "heal wounds". He is a **** docter ffs. It still will never happen, because group healing leads to prologue healing leads to disaster. I was really hoping they would stop releasing healing powers after She-Hulk. They are never well received and are mostly useless. Maybe instead of a group heal, give Beast a self True Heal. Drop the AP a bit, because high cost protect tile skills don't work (see Captain America). Active yellow skill (rare-ish) to keep Beast in the fight, plus green AoE, and he goes to pretty solid from pretty "meh".

[Proposed]Medical Marvel - Yellow 9 AP
Dr. McCoy uses his medical skills to patch himself up before rushing back into battle. Heals Beast of X. If there's a friendly Blue speical tile on the board, he provides a gadget to aid the team. 1 Yellow tiles become strength 16 Protect tiles.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Heal Beast of X.
Level 3: Inceases to 2 Protect tiles.
Level 4: Heal Beast of X.
Level 5: Inceases to 3 strength 21 Protect tiles.
Max Level: X healing / 3 strength 69 Protect tiles

Spoit

Phaserhawk wrote:

Look at it this way, if it does create 4 blue and matches, destroying 3, you just got a random special tile for the cost of 5 blue, that's not terrible. Blue is in no way shape or form suppose to be getting you tons of damage and such, it's designed to generate a special tile to allow you to use green and or yellow. If 5 blue didn't get you the 1 CD timer, I would have gone 3/5/5 or 4/5/4 depending on where the 1 CD countdown timer went.

It kind of is, compared to, say, Chemical reaction, or half of whatever magnetic translocation is called now (much less fury's blue)

Unknown

Chemical Reaction is the exception. Blue powers are mainly support.

h4n1s

Cryptobrancus wrote:

most healing abilities are frustrating because they either take too long to do anyhing, don't do anything at all if no one is hurt, and don't last after battle. What we need is a character that is a healer, that is his whole job.

Healing Waves-Blue 9AP
Drops several staggered countdown timers (5,4,3,2,1 turns) that heal a small amount to the whole team

Life Force-Yellow 12AP
Large heal to whole team

Arise-Black 15 AP
Revives one downed ally with 1 HP

Alternatively they should add in the opposite of an attack tile. A healing tile. just sits there and gives small amounts of temporary healing until it gets matched away

I would see use of such character on offense but incredibly weak on defense - as most possibly he would be the first target you want to put down, his black and yellow ability would be useless and if you play right none of his abilities will go off due to their cost. So even at max level he would be an invitation "come on just attack me and take my PvP points"

Unknown

Kinda like OBW was during the actual healing days?

Healers go down first is a staple of any gaming environment. It doesn't make the healer BAD per se, just fragile.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Kinda like OBW was during the actual healing days?

Healers go down first is a staple of any gaming environment. It doesn't make the healer BAD per se, just fragile.

And if you scroll back 4 or 5 months you see all the threads of people say all we see within 2* land are teams with OBW on them. If there are one or two character with "true healing" they will be used in prologue, shield simulator or PvE to heal up you first team and hence you will not buy Health packs. D3 does not want you playing hours on end without some sort of cost. With the removal of infinite turn C.Mags the number of ways to reduce the damage you take in a match is reduced. Do not be shocked that Boosts also go away to increase the length of matches.

over_clocked

Like many, I don't believe we will ever get a team-wide true healing ability, so the only way to improve Beast's healing (and Spidey and She-Hulk's) would be to get rid of it completely and have some other support/damage abilities instead.

Pylgrim

locked wrote:

Like many, I don't believe we will ever get a team-wide true healing ability, so the only way to improve Beast's healing (and Spidey and She-Hulk's) would be to get rid of it completely and have some other support/damage abilities instead.

This. I was just watching the second Spiderman movie with my girlfriend and it struck me how silly is that MPQ's Spidey has this super-uncharacteristic ability of healing everyone while missing his most important and iconic ability, swinging around dangling off a web!

I'd entirely replace that yellow ability with something more offensive and relevant to his powers.

Web Swing - Red 7 AP
Spiderman swings into the scene at great speed and hammers feet-first into the opponent. His regeneration powers kick in preparing for the battle ahead. Deals X damage to the target and replaces an existing Web tile with a Countdown tile that activates every turn healing him by X. Costs 1 purple AP per turn.
Level 2: Increases damage
Level 3: Increases healing
Level 4: Increases damage
Level 5: Increases healing and adds a web tile.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 8 Blue AP
Hank has big plans for a genetic experiment that might lead to unpredictable results. A centrally-positioned blue tile becomes a 3 turn special Countdown tile that, when activated, converts 4 surrounding basic tiles into random special tiles with strength 22. If there are no central blue tiles, 2 edge-positioned blue tiles become countdowns, or else the four corners turn blue.

Level 2: Creates special tiles of strength 28 Level 3: Reduces to 2 turn countdown Level 4: Creates special tiles of strength 33 Level 5: Reduces to 1 turn countdown

Max Level: 4 strength 105 special tiles

Tweaked a bit more. All my uses of Beast's blue power have wound up on the edge.

This new version allows Beast to use his Blue Special abilities immediately, since the countdown counts as a blue special. Using the power always has a chance of making 4 new special tiles. Also, the countdown has (1-.75^4)=69% chance to make a new countdown tile. At level 5, triggering the power could have a lingering effect with new tiles appearing each turn, but it's not likely.

CrookedKnight

The countdown already counts as a blue special tile for purposes of his green and yellow powers.

Dayv

I would change two things for Beast.

Blue: Make the placement of his special tiles random so the fixed pattern stops burning them with easy matches and off-board placement (this could be on existing blue basics or in new positions, there's room for debate there).

Yellow: best case scenario, completely replace it because nobody wants temporary healing skills and no one will ever prioritize this skill. Failing that, reverse its function: make it put out protect tiles by default, and add healing as the blue tile bonus.