*** Beast (Classic) ***

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Comments

  • NellysonNellyson Posts: 354 Mover and Shaker
    Beast looks like he's just supposed to be fun. He's not really going to help you win, he's not going to help you from dying, he's not going to really help you attack anyone since the tiles that convert also turn to blue (let alone right next to each other!), and he's not all that strong. So really all the Devs did was say, "Hey, these players want Beast. Should we make him powerful or fun? Let's go with fun. Sentry already has all the power for the game anyways." So IMO, he is just that. He's fun to play with. The gimmick is fun. I like seeing the blue tiles out there and how his other powers change with the blue tiles. He's cheap for the most part so I can get them out a lot. They don't really help all that much, but he's still fun. Nowhere close to being competitive tho.
  • CNashCNash Posts: 940 Critical Contributor
    This matches the behaviour of other tiles that affect their surrounding tiles when placed on the edges of the board - an easy one to see is (at low levels) Iron Hammer.
  • I lolled at this move... I used it twice in one battle, the first time there were 13 blues on the board, all somewhat in the middle EXCEPT 1, one right in the top right corner... The tile that got the count down just happened to be this one... I got one lame attack tile... Which btw CPU just managed to claim a cascade and wipe both out... I used it again and guess what... Count down on the most top right corner tile, again... But this time got a defence tile... It's definitely broken, after 2 tests by me, Beast will probably never be a used character for me and will drop down the ranks like Iron Man did.
  • Agree. He's gonna be one of my PvE only characters, I think.
  • h4n1sh4n1s Age Unconfirmed Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
    Nellyson wrote:
    Beast looks like he's just supposed to be fun. He's not really going to help you win, he's not going to help you from dying, he's not going to really help you attack anyone since the tiles that convert also turn to blue (let alone right next to each other!), and he's not all that strong. So really all the Devs did was say, "Hey, these players want Beast. Should we make him powerful or fun? Let's go with fun. Sentry already has all the power for the game anyways." So IMO, he is just that. He's fun to play with. The gimmick is fun. I like seeing the blue tiles out there and how his other powers change with the blue tiles. He's cheap for the most part so I can get them out a lot. They don't really help all that much, but he's still fun. Nowhere close to being competitive tho.

    I tried him in this simulator round. I don't find it much fun though. Every time his blue power went off it did not create 4 tiles... it created 2 or 3, because the random placed it either to the edge of the screen or right next to TU tiles (which are not affected). And the funny part? As they were close to each other 1 cascade or even one 3-match destroyed majority of them. So they did not last long anyway. And without those blue tiles, his green power is also nearly useless. So I am wondering if it is worth to have him block one slot or if to discard him like I did with Loki and Daredevil...
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,498 Chairperson of the Boards
    After playing with Beast in the simulator with his max cover I would say this. If you kept his maxes the same he would be a spectacular 2* character. He would imidiatly be the Top 2* as he does special tiles, good AOE damage especially on the 2* level and he can heal your team so you can fight bigger opponents. His problem is he is a 3* character that is very needy for his powers to be average. I know his green maxed out does the same if not more damage per AP used as LThor but Lthor can accelerate his green and his damage is weighted to crush 1 character and do solid damage to the other 2. Beasts damage is a mini sniper rifle and is to be used with a team to nibble away with strike tiles instead of big nukes. I think if you made his green cost 12 AP and did the same damage per AP he would be significantly better. He would do about 2600 damage to each character and tile damge. Math=(647*12)/3=2588.
    Then you drop his yellow to 9AP and his health would only heal maybe 1000 but still give the protect tiles.
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    It seems like most people wait until his CT blue tile activate before using his green power. CT tiles count as special tiles so you can just activate green/yellow right after his blue to take advantage of the blue special tile bonus.
  • So what exactly is the reason for the countdown tile spawning at the edge of the screen a lot of times? I've noticed this happening with 2* Magneto aswell and it's annoying.
    Plus they are blue and so close together so they are easily matched away immediately.
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 758 Critical Contributor
    My opinion is Beast is a lower tier character who will only really have use in PvE. I've played him pretty extensively in both PvP and PvE.

    For PvP there is none of his powers which make him something to pick over others even though he is blue/green in my 5/5/3 build There is no circumstance where I wouldn't want the bigger green nukes of L Thor or GSBW. The blue is underwhelming because as already mentioned it gets randomly placed on an edge or worse in corner where you get nothing. The inability to place it makes it near worthless. It's only use is to put the CD tile out and then fire the green on the same turn, except that is an overall 17 ap (8 blue plus 9 green) move for about 2k in damage plus some board shakeup and cascade potential. I was happy to put him out to take a hit because there was no chance he could change the game for me.

    PvE is another matter because the board shakeup helps especially against goons. It still isn't ideal but it is okay. Boosted in The Simulator he has been better on the essential nodes and hasn't been as much a liability. But if I had the freedom to use any character on my roster in the essential nodes in the PvE I wouldn't be picking him.

    Bottom line is Beast is low tier 3* and another cool character with nearly useless abilities. The ability to place the cd tile for blue would make a big difference if it was a sure thing to get four special tiles every time. That would make him better, not great or OP, but better.
  • Characters shouldn't be compared to Thor in the first place. Compared to Sniper Rifle, Animal Inside is pretty good after factoring in that higher match abilities tend to have a massive damage boost for their difficulty. However all of Beast's moves are awfully hard to setup due to its dependence on blue tiles. If his blue always generated 4 special tiles if possible that'd make him a lot better. Currently it seems to pick 4 random tiles and if they're ineligible (or not even on the screen) then too bad and you get possibly nothing. Yes that'd mean a lot of the times you'll just make a match 3 blue immediately but that's still better than getting nothing instead.
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 758 Critical Contributor
    Phantron wrote:
    Characters shouldn't be compared to Thor in the first place. Compared to Sniper Rifle, Animal Inside is pretty good after factoring in that higher match abilities tend to have a massive damage boost for their difficulty. However all of Beast's moves are awfully hard to setup due to its dependence on blue tiles. If his blue always generated 4 special tiles if possible that'd make him a lot better. Currently it seems to pick 4 random tiles and if they're ineligible (or not even on the screen) then too bad and you get possibly nothing. Yes that'd mean a lot of the times you'll just make a match 3 blue immediately but that's still better than getting nothing instead.

    When choosing who to make my team up with in PvP the green can't be so massively less than Thor's to make it a no-brainer not to use him. Beast's green is massively less for pretty close to the same difficulty to set up. Four yellow matches and the other team is likely finished.

    I do agree that for a direct comparison GSBW is the one to compare to but after four purple matches she is often ready to roll with deceptive tactics into sniper rifle and the other team is done. Beast requires 3 blue and 3 green matches to get something that most likely will still leave the other team standing. It is that which makes the green all the more disappointing. Even after working to trigger two abilities you run the risk of having done little to improve your position.
    Not to mention outside of MMN there is no blue tile generator. Hulk can tank for GSBW and move you that much closer to a game finishing Sniper Rifle. The dependence on having to have a blue special tile on the board for the green to be the mini-Sniper Rifle makes it unusable. So while it isn't a no-brainer GSBW is another green user who is much better with the same need on the part of the player to set up the move. At least if i set up the move it is almost always a win.
  • Phantron wrote:
    Characters shouldn't be compared to Thor in the first place. Compared to Sniper Rifle, Animal Inside is pretty good after factoring in that higher match abilities tend to have a massive damage boost for their difficulty. However all of Beast's moves are awfully hard to setup due to its dependence on blue tiles. If his blue always generated 4 special tiles if possible that'd make him a lot better. Currently it seems to pick 4 random tiles and if they're ineligible (or not even on the screen) then too bad and you get possibly nothing. Yes that'd mean a lot of the times you'll just make a match 3 blue immediately but that's still better than getting nothing instead.

    When choosing who to make my team up with in PvP the green can't be so massively less than Thor's to make it a no-brainer not to use him. Beast's green is massively less for pretty close to the same difficulty to set up. Four yellow matches and the other team is likely finished.

    I do agree that for a direct comparison GSBW is the one to compare to but after four purple matches she is often ready to roll with deceptive tactics into sniper rifle and the other team is done. Beast requires 3 blue and 3 green matches to get something that most likely will still leave the other team standing. It is that which makes the green all the more disappointing. Even after working to trigger two abilities you run the risk of having done little to improve your position.
    Not to mention outside of MMN there is no blue tile generator. Hulk can tank for GSBW and move you that much closer to a game finishing Sniper Rifle. The dependence on having to have a blue special tile on the board for the green to be the mini-Sniper Rifle makes it unusable. So while it isn't a no-brainer GSBW is another green user who is much better with the same need on the part of the player to set up the move. At least if i set up the move it is almost always a win.

    If 'not massively weaker than Thor's green' is the criteria only Sentry qualifies there for the same tier (X Force starts with more powerful stats for being a 4*). You can make an argument for Judgment or maybe Flame Jet, but Call the Storm is still way better most of the time. Beast's green seems to be designed to be hard to setup but does a relatively large amount of damage (compared to anyone that isn't Thor or Sentry). This doesn't really work out because of the blue's tendency to generate way less than expected number of special tiles.

    Since there are decent purple skills in the 4-5 match range, Deceptive Tactics has a cost in that it only does green pump and nothing else compared to Escape Plan or WHALES. Yes you can't always fill your team with another purple power but it'd be hard to have any numerical analysis if you've to factor in the whole team because there are too much variables there. I don't consider Deceptive Tactics to be a discount on GSBW's green because you're already paying for that green AP by using a 4 match purple ability that does a negligible amount of damage for the green AP instead. Sniper Rifle is probably easier to use because finding another purple power is hard, but there's too much hypothetical that goes there. For example if your team is Fury + Beast as opposed to Fury + GSBW then using Deceptive Tactics to fuel Sniper Rifle is no longer free because you give up an Escape Plan for it. I don't know if either team even makes sense to use, which is why I didn't try to compute what kind of other usage for purple there might be.
  • I'd just like to add that in pvp the AI doesn't wait for beast to have a blue tile out to fire off his green.

    Lol so bad
  • ColognoisseurColognoisseur Posts: 758 Critical Contributor
    Here are the green 3* powers and where I would rank them:

    Sentry World Rupture
    Thor Call the Storm
    Punisher Judgement
    HT Flame Jet
    Patch Berserker Rage
    GSBW Sniper Rifle
    Hulk Thunderous Clap
    Rag Godlike Ability
    Mohawk Storm Lightning Strike
    Beast Animal Inside
    She-Hulk Reprieve

    Animal Inside is only better than Reprieve in my opinion. When you look at that list it should be firmly in that middle tier from Punisher to Sniper Rifle and it isn't even close. Everyone of those abilities from Hulk upward I consider using to fill the green gap especially when I am occupying red and yellow with something else. Either I am looking for synergy or filling out the rainbow Thor isn't always the answer and neither is Sentry even as overpowered as they are.
  • So I was playing with beast and Magneto. I found out the special tiles don't have to be beasts. You just need a blue special tile on the board (in my case magneto's). This may not make a big difference in how the hero performs but it definitely means that he has better advantages with specific team mates and you may not need to level blue up to 5.
  • Madfox wrote:
    So I was playing with beast and Magneto. I found out the special tiles don't have to be beasts. You just need a blue special tile on the board (in my case magneto's). This may not make a big difference in how the hero performs but it definitely means that he has better advantages with specific team mates and you may not need to level blue up to 5.
    Too bad Magneto won't be able to create special blue tiles at will with the next patch icon_razz.gif
  • Here are the green 3* powers and where I would rank them:

    Sentry World Rupture
    Thor Call the Storm
    Punisher Judgement
    HT Flame Jet
    Patch Berserker Rage
    GSBW Sniper Rifle
    Hulk Thunderous Clap
    Rag Godlike Ability
    Mohawk Storm Lightning Strike
    Beast Animal Inside
    She-Hulk Reprieve

    Animal Inside is only better than Reprieve in my opinion. When you look at that list it should be firmly in that middle tier from Punisher to Sniper Rifle and it isn't even close. Everyone of those abilities from Hulk upward I consider using to fill the green gap especially when I am occupying red and yellow with something else. Either I am looking for synergy or filling out the rainbow Thor isn't always the answer and neither is Sentry even as overpowered as they are.

    I don't disagree with Animal Inside is pretty bad. I think only Judgment qualifies for not being 'massively weaker than Thor's green' (and World Rupture is better) so that's an unfair overall criteria. I think your criteria is more like 'acceptable power for a color' as opposed to 'not massively weaker than Thor'. Thunderous Clap is an acceptable level of power, but it is massively weaker than a Call the Storm. Mutagenic Breakthrough needs to be a lot more reliable for Animal Inside to even be usable.
  • Would enjoy Beast a lot more with 1) the ability to place the blue CD tile, or 2) it can actually reliably create 4 special tiles (not pick the 4 to try and see if they work, resulting in 2 usually), or 3) not turn the special tiles blue causing them to match themselves away too often.

    Or... all those.
  • SirPhobos wrote:
    Would enjoy Beast a lot more with 1) the ability to place the blue CD tile, or 2) it can actually reliably create 4 special tiles (not pick the 4 to try and see if they work, resulting in 2 usually), or 3) not turn the special tiles blue causing them to match themselves away too often.

    Or... all those.

    The turning them into blue tiles is really bad I agree but the problem is his green needs blue tiles. The overall Design of the Card is just very wonky and doesn't do much without a lot of work on your part.
  • PylgrimPylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nellyson wrote:
    Beast looks like he's just supposed to be fun. He's not really going to help you win, he's not going to help you from dying, he's not going to really help you attack anyone since the tiles that convert also turn to blue (let alone right next to each other!), and he's not all that strong. So really all the Devs did was say, "Hey, these players want Beast. Should we make him powerful or fun? Let's go with fun. Sentry already has all the power for the game anyways." So IMO, he is just that. He's fun to play with. The gimmick is fun. I like seeing the blue tiles out there and how his other powers change with the blue tiles. He's cheap for the most part so I can get them out a lot. They don't really help all that much, but he's still fun. Nowhere close to being competitive tho.

    You know what is fun? Winning. You know what is not fun? Losing against Devil Dino + Goons, because he's so bad that you are basically playing with only 2 characters against 3.

    I have to say that he's in practice even worse than he seemed in paper. IF the blue countdown doesn't get destroyed, then it will give you 4 special tiles IF they are all basic colours and not on an edge or corner, which will stay around for more than a turn IF the AI is forgiving enough not to match immediately their conveniently placed tiles. After a day of playing him, I'd say that in average, 3 turns in since you spent your AP, there's one special tile left. It's a lot of loops to hoop through to get 122 (at level 130) more damage/defence per turn. Yellow is obviously abysmal, with or without blue tile and green is somewhat ok with a blue tile (abysmal without), but has a very good chance of destroying your precious blue tile. This is Daredevil bad, friends. It is too bad, I like beast and I really wanted to like his avatar in this game.
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