Patch R58 Discussion - Live 7/29

GrumpySmurf1002

Carnajs1 wrote:

I see Icex has said if we stock pile the TU abilities that we aren't playing efficiently,

Yeah, I haven't used up my 17+AP lethal recons and murderous aims because of my efficiency. That's definitely it.

Unknown

wymtime wrote:

If you are running a 2* team they just don't have as much health as a 3* team so when the AI gets a power off it will hurt more.

Bingo, plus a 2 star team has less usable characters to cycle in and out. The playing field for PvP prizes to develop a roster has always been tilted in favor of a 3 star roster, the problem is that every new change tilts it further in that direction. Then you throw in the sharding/nudging and 600 points doesn't make top 100 anymore.

It would be nice if the developers recognize the fact that the last two major changes (True Healing and TeamUps) have had a significantly detrimental impact on the ability of 2 star transition player to compete with 3 star players for the prizes needed to transition. There are 2 easy fixes that I can think of that would help to flatten the slope a little bit (and I am sure there are plenty more ideas out there)

1. Increase health packs to 25, increase regeneration time to 1 hour

If you go through 5 healthpacks, 5 times a day, this would be equivalent. This change would provide more freedom to play on your schedule.

2. Move character heal time to 1% of total health recovered every 90 seconds

This means that all characters would heal full health in 2.5 hours - which is the same amount of time as a point refresh. By making the heal times consistent for all characters, it helps those with a smaller usable roster compete for the prizes that help them grow.

GrumpySmurf1002

papa07 wrote:

wymtime wrote:

If you are running a 2* team they just don't have as much health as a 3* team so when the AI gets a power off it will hurt more.

It would be nice if the developers recognize the fact that the last two major changes (True Healing and TeamUps) have had a significantly detrimental impact on the ability of 2 star transition player to compete with 3 star players for the prizes needed to transition.

Not really. If you're burning up health packs with a 2* roster, you're not doing it right, or you don't really have a 2* roster.

Aside from that, a 2* roster could never compete with a 3* roster, true heal/team up or not. There's always been a point where if you stick your head up too high, the piranhas will find you. Thus there's always been a threshold (around 800-850) where a 2* team maxes out.

The recent sharding which has kicked 800 out of the top 10 completely and barely keeps it in top 25 is the real killer.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Not really. If you're burning up health packs with a 2* roster, you're not doing it right, or you don't really have a 2* roster.

Aside from that, a 2* roster could never compete with a 3* roster, true heal/team up or not. There's always been a point where if you stick your head up too high, the piranhas will find you. Thus there's always been a threshold (around 800-850) where a 2* team maxes out.

The recent sharding which has kicked 800 out of the top 10 completely and barely keeps it in top 25 is the real killer.

I think 7 maxed (Ares, oBW, Thor, Storm, Mags, Wolvie, Daken) counts as a 2 star roster. I have had sessions go as bad as 6 attacks (10 of 18 left battles dead or badly wounded) and as good as 9 under Team-Ups. Post True Healing, I could do around 15, sometimes as many as 20, so there is definitely a difference. As for doing it right, please explain how to avoid enough damage to keep my characters in play.

Never meant to imply a 2star roster could compete with a three star, but they could work harder and earn covers. Now the only option is to shield, which for newer players wastes hp better spent on roster spots.

Sharding is ridiculous, no doubt. The fact that 600 points does not guarantee a 3 star finish anymore and requires a shield to maintain is absurd. The fact that 813 points in the last event barely finished 25th is even more crazy because, as you said, there is a limit on 2 star players at the 800 point mark

GrumpySmurf1002

papa07 wrote:

I think 7 maxed (Ares, oBW, Thor, Storm, Mags, Wolvie, Daken) counts as a 2 star roster.

It's all the strong ones, but should really have Cap and Hawkeye (esp. with his buff coming). 2* Cap helps PvE play immensely, and Hawkeye has some synergy with most because avoid allows others to tank him. Bullseye is pretty useful with Magneto-Storm too, when running other than PvP. Torch will become mandatory as some point.

papa07 wrote:

I have had sessions go as bad as 6 attacks (10 of 18 left battles dead or badly wounded) and as good as 9 under Team-Ups. Post True Healing, I could do around 15, sometimes as many as 20, so there is definitely a difference. As for doing it right, please explain how to avoid enough damage to keep my characters in play.

I don't really have a clear cut answer. There's a few things I can think of that might help, most I've mentioned in various threads on the topic. Based on your roster threads, I'm a bit ahead of you as far as 3* builds (I have 4-5 usable around lvl 90), but you have a couple usable characters in Hulk/Torch/Patch (assuming you got the 3k green Patch from season 4) which should extend play also. Add in mStorm, and that's 11-12 characters which you can consistently rotate.

Also, 20-30% health doesn't necessarily require a health pack. That's roughly 30min (depending on character) to get back to 50%, which you can easily do sidelining them to either use a different group or play PvE with different characters. The only time I really use a health pack right now if an essential character needs it, or I have a dead/near-dead character that I need to specifically beat a certain opponent.

papa07 wrote:

Never meant to imply a 2star roster could compete with a three star, but they could work harder and earn covers. Now the only option is to shield, which for newer players wastes hp better spent on roster spots.

Newer players are not in the 3* transition, nor do they have the HP/roster space to accommodate the multitude of 3* characters. So their HP shouldn't really be spent on shields anyway. For the rest, if you want to make the transition in a reasonable amount of time, shielding has always been mandatory.

MunitionsFrenzy

papa07 wrote:

I think 7 maxed (Ares, oBW, Thor, Storm, Mags, Wolvie, Daken) counts as a 2 star roster. I have had sessions go as bad as 6 attacks (10 of 18 left battles dead or badly wounded) and as good as 9 under Team-Ups. Post True Healing, I could do around 15, sometimes as many as 20, so there is definitely a difference. As for doing it right, please explain how to avoid enough damage to keep my characters in play.

I have Ares, oBW, Thor, Storm, Mags, Wolvie, and Hawkeye as my seven 2-stars. Storm+Mags wins aren't really any different with or without team-ups; oBW+Wolvie wins are sometimes more dangerous but can also be much quicker with team-ups (Thunderclaps from the prologue, all the Berserk Rages I've picked up from Cage Match, etc); and Ares/Thor tanking for Hawkeye is similarly more dangerous but also faster (over-leveled Gravity Warps and Devours from insanely OP PvE opponents are actually pretty efficient sources of damage to help close out games quickly).

Unknown

I'm having issues with clicks not being recognized since the patch. Seems like I have to click the skill tabs 3-4 times before the page changes. And once, Aggressive Recon simply would not activate for an entire match, no many how many times I clicked it.

Other feedback: thanks for shortening Espionage delay time, but why balance it by slowing down others like Sunder and every CD tile? Faster resolutions are better all around.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

It's all the strong ones, but should really have Cap and Hawkeye (esp. with his buff coming). 2* Cap helps PvE play immensely, and Hawkeye has some synergy with most because avoid allows others to tank him. Bullseye is pretty useful with Magneto-Storm too, when running other than PvP. Torch will become mandatory as some point.

Agree on Torch, he's getting iso, just only at 7 covers. Can't stand Hawkeye because of the Avoid bug, have him built 5/5/0 for PvE. Cap I cut loose to make room for Torch and his required nodes a month back, rebuilding him and will bring him up for PvE. Bullseye and Bagman were never worth a roster spot to me.

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I don't really have a clear cut answer. There's a few things I can think of that might help, most I've mentioned in various threads on the topic. Based on your roster threads, I'm a bit ahead of you as far as 3* builds (I have 4-5 usable around lvl 90), but you have a couple usable characters in Hulk/Torch/Patch (assuming you got the 3k green Patch from season 4) which should extend play also. Add in mStorm, and that's 11-12 characters which you can consistently rotate.

Also, 20-30% health doesn't necessarily require a health pack. That's roughly 30min (depending on character) to get back to 50%, which you can easily do sidelining them to either use a different group or play PvE with different characters. The only time I really use a health pack right now if an essential character needs it, or I have a dead/near-dead character that I need to specifically beat a certain opponent.

I was always under the thought that 3 stars needed to be around lvl105 to have equal match damage, so that was the point in my mind that they needed to reach. That said, I just got Patch to 106 (2/3/4) and did start experimenting during CageMatch with the following.

Hulk lvl89 (4/2/2)
Torch lvl82 (3/2/2)
Panther lvl68 (1/1/3)
Falcon lvl63 (1/3/4)

I am in the excellent tough spot of being short iso right now of having gotten 8 covers in the past 2 days (3 Patch, 4 Falcon, 1 Hulk) and immediately leveling Patch. I think all 4 have some synergy and use with Patch, but still figuring that out and where to put iso. So for me, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but if these changes had hit two months ago, I would have been dead in the water and I try to speak from that perspective, as many posters on here are too far removed from that time to understand how hard some of these changes hit.

Spoit

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

papa07 wrote:

I think 7 maxed (Ares, oBW, Thor, Storm, Mags, Wolvie, Daken) counts as a 2 star roster.

It's all the strong ones, but should really have Cap and Hawkeye (esp. with his buff coming). 2* Cap helps PvE play immensely, and Hawkeye has some synergy with most because avoid allows others to tank him. Bullseye is pretty useful with Magneto-Storm too, when running other than PvP. Torch will become mandatory as some point.

papa07 wrote:

I have had sessions go as bad as 6 attacks (10 of 18 left battles dead or badly wounded) and as good as 9 under Team-Ups. Post True Healing, I could do around 15, sometimes as many as 20, so there is definitely a difference. As for doing it right, please explain how to avoid enough damage to keep my characters in play.

I don't really have a clear cut answer. There's a few things I can think of that might help, most I've mentioned in various threads on the topic. Based on your roster threads, I'm a bit ahead of you as far as 3* builds (I have 4-5 usable around lvl 90), but you have a couple usable characters in Hulk/Torch/Patch (assuming you got the 3k green Patch from season 4) which should extend play also. Add in mStorm, and that's 11-12 characters which you can consistently rotate.

Also, 20-30% health doesn't necessarily require a health pack. That's roughly 30min (depending on character) to get back to 50%, which you can easily do sidelining them to either use a different group or play PvE with different characters. The only time I really use a health pack right now if an essential character needs it, or I have a dead/near-dead character that I need to specifically beat a certain opponent.

papa07 wrote:

Never meant to imply a 2star roster could compete with a three star, but they could work harder and earn covers. Now the only option is to shield, which for newer players wastes hp better spent on roster spots.

Newer players are not in the 3* transition, nor do they have the HP/roster space to accommodate the multitude of 3* characters. So their HP shouldn't really be spent on shields anyway. For the rest, if you want to make the transition in a reasonable amount of time, shielding has always been mandatory.

I disagree. Even 7 2*s seems kind of excessive, when they should really be saving their ISO to try to start the long, hard road to the 3* transition

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Newer players are not in the 3* transition, nor do they have the HP/roster space to accommodate the multitude of 3* characters. So their HP shouldn't really be spent on shields anyway. For the rest, if you want to make the transition in a reasonable amount of time, shielding has always been mandatory.

This point should be pretty clear to anyone who is working their way into the 3* arena. The game is developed to make money. If people don't want to spend money (like me), we will have to accept the fact that things will get more difficult as time goes on.

For me, This game is becoming a chore. I have been trying out other games to play for fun.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

I disagree. Even 7 2*s seems kind of excessive, when they should really be saving their ISO to try to start the long, hard road to the 3* transition

That was a true statement before True Healing, when Ares, Thor, oBW was plenty of continual firepower, but nowadays its all hands on deck because nobody last long and to earn the covers needed to make that transition, you need a full roster of 2s

Spoit

papa07 wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I disagree. Even 7 2*s seems kind of excessive, when they should really be saving their ISO to try to start the long, hard road to the 3* transition

That was a true statement before True Healing, when Ares, Thor, oBW was plenty of continual firepower, but nowadays its all hands on deck because nobody last long and to earn the covers needed to make that transition, you need a full roster of 2s

Eh, I guess if you really need 3 teams: mnmags/cstorm, OBW/Ares or Thor, the other one of Ares/thor and ??? (I guess daken). Not sure what use the 7th would be.

And realistically, 5 med packs will bring back 2 duos to full, and then half of one, so Ares/thor/OBW/MnMags/cStorm might still be sufficient

wymtime

Spoit wrote:

papa07 wrote:

Spoit wrote:

I disagree. Even 7 2*s seems kind of excessive, when they should really be saving their ISO to try to start the long, hard road to the 3* transition

That was a true statement before True Healing, when Ares, Thor, oBW was plenty of continual firepower, but nowadays its all hands on deck because nobody last long and to earn the covers needed to make that transition, you need a full roster of 2s

Eh, I guess if you really need 3 teams: mnmags/cstorm, OBW/Ares or Thor, the other one of Ares/thor and ??? (I guess daken). Not sure what use the 7th would be.

And realistically, 5 med packs will bring back 2 duos to full, and then half of one, so Ares/thor/OBW/MnMags/cStorm might still be sufficient

You ar also not listing Daken, Haekeye, and Wolvie. All 3 can be good for longer plays because of healing and Avoid.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Not really. If you're burning up health packs with a 2* roster, you're not doing it right, or you don't really have a 2* roster.

I can play the color denial game all day, but I can't stop the opponent from collecting EVERY color plus TUs. Eventually they are going to get an attack off. I honestly don't see how anyone at the 2* phase can possibly go without burning all of their health packs now.



EDITED: Upon re-reading, my response came off **** so I rewrote it to better reflect the mood it was actually written in.

Unknown

Wasn't sure where else to post this, but has anyone else noticed that since the patch the game tends to be a little more... streaky?

We've all been there, where through some RNG boon or bane an incredible cascade of matches comes down. Sometimes it saves you, other times it ruins you, but it's always been fairly rare. But since the Team Up patch, I've found that it's difficult to go a match without some ridiculous 10+ combo showing up. I'm not one to call the AI a cheater, as this also happens for my benefit as well. But in the second of the "essential" battles in Deadpool vs MPQ my xforce wolverine was one-hit killed by one-star Storm. It just wouldn't stop; I damn near threw my tablet down in anger.

My concern is that I'm suffering from some confirmation bias, where I'm seeing it more because I'm looking for it. So I come to you: have any of you experienced this?

Unknown

KrunkSplein wrote:

Wasn't sure where else to post this, but has anyone else noticed that since the patch the game tends to be a little more... streaky?

We've all been there, where through some RNG boon or bane an incredible cascade of matches comes down. Sometimes it saves you, other times it ruins you, but it's always been fairly rare. But since the Team Up patch, I've found that it's difficult to go a match without some ridiculous 10+ combo showing up. I'm not one to call the AI a cheater, as this also happens for my benefit as well. But in the second of the "essential" battles in Deadpool vs MPQ my xforce wolverine was one-hit killed by one-star Storm. It just wouldn't stop; I damn near threw my tablet down in anger.

My concern is that I'm suffering from some confirmation bias, where I'm seeing it more because I'm looking for it. So I come to you: have any of you experienced this?

I feel like AI is playing smarter than in the past. I know for a fact that I am taking more damage now and having to use health packs all the time. But I can't pinpoint when it changed or if it's really due to RNG brokenness.

MunitionsFrenzy

KrunkSplein wrote:

Wasn't sure where else to post this, but has anyone else noticed that since the patch the game tends to be a little more... streaky?

I'm seeing a helluva lot less cascading post-patch. I doubt that was an actual change in the patch, so it's probably just my horrific past luck finally balancing out. I don't think any of this anecdotal evidence in either direction means anything; I doubt the patch has changed cascading at all.

The only notable cascade difference that's definitely occurred post-patch, and which might be contributing to what you're seeing, is that now team-up tiles do damage as part of the cascade chains, whereas previously environmental tiles wouldn't've.

Unknown

EternalLurker wrote:

I doubt the patch has changed cascading at all.

My temporary theory (until I hear anything better) is that when they switched from environment to TU they marginally reduced the chance of them appearing. That subtly increases the numbers of the other six colors, increasing the odds of cascades. Or, like I said before, I'm just seeing things.

Unknown

not sure if this has been mentioned already, but I cant help but feel like storm has been nerfed. While im still adjusting to the change from red to yellow for her (cant say i like it, but perhaps it will prove to be ok), I really, really think the limit of 7 tiles is a bigtime **** nerf. Why was this necessary D3? for the love of gawd, why???
As many posters have mentioned, you get stuck with TUs that require 19 points plus, so why the limit of popping 7 tiles for storm? her ability used to be best when youd have 10+ enviro tiles and could easily nuke for a couple thousand. now it seems like its 9 AP for at most like 1500 dmg. and 7 whoopdie-doo TU points?
I declare shenanigans

MunitionsFrenzy

drpuzzle wrote:

7 whoopdie-doo TU points?
I declare shenanigans

Everyone whines forever about how "OH MY GOD EVERY SINGLE TEAM-UP USED AGAINST ME IS WORLD RUPTURE AND IT ONLY COSTS 7", then complains that "OH MY GOD I ONLY GET 7 TEAM-UP AP WHAT IS THIS LAMENESS".

I declare bad playing.