*** The Punisher (Dark Reign) ***

Unknown

Iron Fist doesn't require black. His BASE 5 cover cost same 8 green and gives same 123 str . You trade random 'board shake' for 1k damage. And I think people severly overvalue destroying single random block of tiles, especially since Pun powers are about creating Strike/Attack tiles which means he can just as well sabotage himself more often than enemy. And for some reason when you have 12 back, IF doubles his strike tiles. So yeah, Pun that can at very least AIM would move it slightly closer IF level.

Punisher black really need big damage boost with covers along with boost. From all characters, he has by far the weakest Attack tiles in game. Difference between 3 and 5 covers in black is pretty much non existent, it goes from dealing no damage to no damage one turn faster. It's sole use is to trigger strike tiles, nothing more. And because of that he is pretty much forced into 3/5/5. If he would get his base upgraded as well as receiving huge boosts to it once you get 5 covers you could at least have different builds - 5 red for execute, 5 green for match damage/aoe, 5 black for attack tile that grind opponents. I mean, look at newer characters - Blade or IF or Cage, difference between 3 and 5 covers is often doubling what skill does, yet here the only noticable boost it recieves is that one turn shorter clock (which would matter only if Attack tile had actual worthwhile value).

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

All this thread shows is that primary green/black character need to be about 50% stronger because X Force, a primary green/black guy, is at least 50% stronger than anyone else.

Right. Because all characters should be equal, and 4* characters shouldn't be any better than 3* characters.

I will agree that an environment with X-Force makes other black/green characters highly undesirable, but the idea that there's anything wrong with a 4* character making a 3* character obsolete is kind of laughable. I'm not going to use Ares over Lazy Thor, even though Ares is a perfectly good character in his class.

When you're making quick, last-minute hops in PvP, Punisher can be a nice option against big 4* teams. Retribution as a 6k finisher against TGT can save you precious time. You just have to make sure you're shielded again quick, cause he's pretty squishy.

woopie

Sounds like we need a 4* Franken-Castle.

rixmith

That sort of buff would probably get him into the top 10 of 3*'s but still wouldn't make him the best 3*. Clearly X-Force would still be far superior on offense, but this would make Punisher miserable to face on defense since you're very likely to take at least one green and one black attack, and receiving an area affect buffed by a set of strike tiles can really ruin your whole attacking team. Overall, a pretty interesting idea.

Unknown

I don't really know at this point. I don't like the way that (aside from a couple of infinite combo remnants from the early game), since the release of LazyThor the 3* game essentially always plays out as "get to 12 AP, murder the entire enemy team" (LazyThor,BP,Sentry,Deadpool...) I'd rather see all 3*s be at Punisher's power level than all 3*s at LazyThor's power level, but the kind of mass nerf required for that nowadays would be apocalyptic for the game

Unknown

For reference, 1155 is the damage at 5 covers also. 116 attack tile. Red at 3 covers is 1926/30%.

I wouldn't mind seeing this change made. Would make Castle a top 10 3*. AoE damage would still be less than BP when not buffed, strike tiles would go from pretty good to amazing, and his red would be one of the better reds in the game. Of course, this would make his 30%/40% insta downs even MORE useless, as a buffed version of this character has virtually no chance for red damage to be less than 30% of a typical characters health.

Sure he's inferior to XF still, but I am in the camp that thinks this should be the case anyway. 4*s stronger than 3*s is the norm, not an exception.

Chrono_Tata

I think the Punisher is generally a pretty balanced character, power-wise. The main problem with him is that he's just got so little health. He's a slow build-up character since you need to activate his green a couple of times to really get enough strike tiles out there to really start doing some damage, and his red is a power that you save to use until the enemy is low enough health, so having so little health doesn't really fit with his play strategy.

Really like the idea of targetable green as well. That and a health buff I think would make him very viable.

Unknown

That you just called Punisher slow makes me laugh a little inside.

The meta has moved away from strike tiles especially now that OBW can't really hang at the PvP tier. Back when OBW could double tap strikes she and Punisher were an amazing combo. Nowadays that team would get super rolled in PvP.

Chrono_Tata

Yeah, that's what I meant. The high-end meta is all about super-fast teams like X-force and Patch/Hulk that the Punisher is just considered slow now. I guess fast special tile upgraders like Prof X can help him play a bit faster but there are still better strike tile generators, especially those who can generate them without having a chance of accidentally wiping out the ones they generated the previous time they used the ability.

Unknown

Vhailorx wrote:

ark123 wrote:

I'd much rather have a stunner if a giant health pool is the issue.

He doesn't do anything too well. He tries to fire off some ok sized strike tiles and follow it up with a black AoE, but this is exactly what BP does, except BP has more health and his AoE does insane amounts of damage. Red is cute and all but honestly it's not worth crippling yourself the entire fight just to off a character from 40% assuming this punisher is even alive at that point.

In general I don't disagree with you. Punisher has basically been surpassed by other 3*s (especially BP). And stunning is a solid technique huge tanks. But sometimes your best stunner is in the opposing pve team and you can't use them. And some times you are in a heroic event with restricted roster. or sometimes you A and B teams are both too hurt to fight and you don't have health packs but you really want to clear one more level.

In those circumstances punisher's red is a nice cookie that no other character can quite duplicate. I'm not suggesting it's a great ability, just that it is HIS most useful and unique ability, and should therefore be maxed before his mediocre black skill (which takes too long even at level 5). As far as I can tell, the only real use for his black power is to be used after something like berserker rage to spam strike-tile-enhanced aoe damage, and for that purpose 3 covers works as well as 5.

I totally agree with all the points you've made. I think people with lots of maxed to almost maxed 3* or 4* places little value in him. However, for people with a limited roster he becomes a star. For me he has lots of value, and he is the first 3* hero who I'm leveling up because I ended up with getting more covers for him than the rest.

Paired with 2* Thor he becomes a killing machine in cd type goon nodes. he feeds off of Thor's ability to produce his green and sooner or later those strike tiles add up fast! I got to the point of so many accumulated strike tiles that produced 1,888 each time I made a match! It made those cd nodes end real fast. Top it off with his red retribution and you have one bad **** hero.

3/5/5 build is what makes him bad ****! He has lot's of value for me right now, and while I wait to grow my 3* and 4* teams Punisher will always be permanent in my roster.

ETA: I've spent some gold getting a red cover for him and what a difference! His red cover I think is the harder one to get. Punisher is the only hero that gets me all pumped out and makes me feel like I'm Rambo! I like to make a gun gesture with my fingers whenever he fired away! If he downs the enemy I pretend I'm blowing smoke off a gun! YEAH!!!

PuceMoose

Nice post rowie! Your enthusiasm is refreshing. I also still love my Mr. Castle (day 521 and he's still one of my go-to-dudes to wreck heads), especially paired with Patch and Lazy Daken in the sim. The true healers tank his colors, and it's a fantastic climbing team.

Honestly, I'd love to see him be the default "good" 3-star, balance wise. All of his powers are good and usable (even if they aren't top-tier), but it's nice to have a character with *all* abilities being good, instead of the usual "one awesome, one good/decent, one mediocre/poor " that most 3 stars seem to fall into. Also, the casing bouncing sound from Retribution is hard to argue with - that's good stuff.

Scoregasms

Anybody else think this guy gets a sizable boost in playability? Good size health increase and now 40% of remaining health means something else entirely in this new age of bigger health pools. As I type this, I already regret it because I can feel the nerf bat creeping towards him.... Lol.

Phaserhawk

Scoregasms wrote:

As I type this, I already regret it because I can feel the nerf bat creeping towards him.... Lol.

Lol, no. His red is the only thing keeping him relevant as he is way behind the power curve everywhere else.

Trilateralus

Phaserhawk wrote:

Scoregasms wrote:

As I type this, I already regret it because I can feel the nerf bat creeping towards him.... Lol.

Lol, no. His red is the only thing keeping him relevant as he is way behind the power curve everywhere else.

I ran Punisher 5/3/5 for a long time but eventually respecced to 5/5/3 because I never found any use for his red. I admit he's not much help in high end PVP but in longer matches especially survival nodes Molotov and Judgement are incredibly useful. Never understood the love for Retribution.

Unknown

I used Punisher quite a bit in the 'no Wolverine' nodes and he was quite capable of pulling his weight. I think people are too used to having X Force who incidentally covers 2 of the same color as X Force that they forgot how good he is. Black Panther and Iron Fist are likely better in a directly comparable way, while Thor is probably better overall (their skills are not easy to compare directly). Iron Fist and Thor will be relatively weaker compared to Punisher after Friday, and ROTP is also relatively weaker in a world where everyone has a lot more HP to make use of the side effect.

dkffiv

Punisher is the second best green/black user and usually the best single 3* character to pair with Fury or 4hor (single being important on essential nodes like the Kingpin ones where your third character is useless). Gamora / Spider-Man / Falcon was working very well but I probably would've been using Punisher if I wasn't saving his health + kits for matches where I was using a 4*.

Torch has moderate synergy with 4hor (in terms of black usage you only have to worry about how close you are to a power surge, yellow doesn't matter. Fireball gets the +3 AP from charged tiles so sometimes its a better move than smite if they're in kill range) but Punisher fits just about any situation.

Punisher OBW Luke Cage is also an amazing combination, though I couldn't use it much in the Thunder Mountain grind down due to so many GSBW nodes.

Gagutz

After the update I like punisher's health increase and his red power is very attractive...

Are there any good characters to use for PVP with Punisher?

Unknown

Gagutz wrote:

After the update I like punisher's health increase and his red power is very attractive...

Are there any good characters to use for PVP with Punisher?

Punisher was my first maxed 3* and he was very strong with Original Black Widow. The cheap green of Puni provokes 1000 damage for each match with primary colors of OBW.

But in the 3* land you can also use him with Daken, Hood or Loki for example. I also like to bring characters such as Magneto or Deadpool who complements the usage of the red color.

Arondite

Scoregasms wrote:

Anybody else think this guy gets a sizable boost in playability? Good size health increase and now 40% of remaining health means something else entirely in this new age of bigger health pools. As I type this, I already regret it because I can feel the nerf bat creeping towards him.... Lol.

Funny post mang.

Nah, the health buffs did him no favors. They made his red more useful, and it's true that that was his main draw for a great deal of players, but now his other side - those middling-but-inexpensive strike and attack tiles have fallen to miniscule when compared to the health they need to chew through.

Cousin Simpson

My 166 Pun is 5/5/3, but since the DDQ is offering a red cover and since 3/5/5 seems to be the consensus favorite, should I take him to 4/5/4 in the meantime and just hope that I somehow pull another red, or is having 5 in black or red the real goal (in addition to green)?