Upcoming Change: Character Level Shift

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FUELIE wrote:

So does this mean the 2 and 3 and 4* covers I have will automatically be bumped up No matter what level they are?

IceX stated your heroes will automatically be increased to an equivalent level on the new system.

Unknown

Thanks for the info

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Personally, I don't see any reason why this change is necessary, but it does totally break all the comparison tables and stats data in my roster tools. The cynic in me says that they're doing this to muck up the numbers on my roster tools and the wikia pages to make it harder for players to make informed decisions (since the data all needs to be collated again), since stupid /ignorant/ uninformed player base is easier to control and push to spend money than an intelligent / well-informed one with expectations that a game actually be fun vs. simply a framework to encourage micro-transactions.

Specifically, the devs yet again prove to be either a) inordinately incompetent or b) plain spiteful. I say this because there was no problem with level caps IMO. The problem was always in the broken gameplay dynamic centered around competition and healthpacks and artificially limiting play-time of people who don't want to buy more healthpacks or make duplicates of every character in their roster, and how offensive / defense were set up in PvP. So rather than fix what was broken, they take the obvious route and just see how much they can piss off their player-base even more.

If my roster tools data is all shot, there's 0 chance I'll ever come back to this game. Back when I was still playing, before the "True Healing" change (which like all changes that totally screw you over does the opposite of what its name implies), my roster tools and event spreadsheets allowed me to play this game semi-casually. Going through all your characters manually in-game is tedious, time-consuming, frustrating, and generally useless. They could've fixed things without breaking all the stats / data / etc.. collected by MPQ enthusiasts over the past ~6 months - year.

Why do they keep making changes that seem to be for the explicit purpose of pissing off their player base?

Unknown

theHappyDance wrote:

Personally, I don't see any reason why this change is necessary, but it does totally break all the comparison tables and stats data in my roster tools. The cynic in me says that they're doing this to muck up the numbers on my roster tools and the wikia pages to make it harder for players to make informed decisions (since the data all needs to be collated again), since stupid /ignorant/ uninformed player base is easier to control and push to spend money than an intelligent / well-informed one with expectations that a game actually be fun vs. simply a framework to encourage micro-transactions.

Specifically, the devs yet again prove to be either a) inordinately incompetent or b) plain spiteful. I say this because there was no problem with level caps IMO. The problem was always in the broken gameplay dynamic centered around competition and healthpacks and artificially limiting play-time of people who don't want to buy more healthpacks or make duplicates of every character in their roster, and how offensive / defense were set up in PvP. So rather than fix what was broken, they take the obvious route and just see how much they can piss off their player-base even more.

If my roster tools data is all shot, there's 0 chance I'll ever come back to this game. Back when I was still playing, before the "True Healing" change (which like all changes that totally screw you over does the opposite of what its name implies), my roster tools and event spreadsheets allowed me to play this game semi-casually. Going through all your characters manually in-game is tedious, time-consuming, frustrating, and generally useless. They could've fixed things without breaking all the stats / data / etc.. collected by MPQ enthusiasts over the past ~6 months - year.

Why do they keep making changes that seem to be for the explicit purpose of pissing off their player base?

This is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

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jozier wrote:

This is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

And what exactly have you ever done to meaningfully contribute to this community? Ever released any guides, stat tables, calculators, or anything else that can be considered more than just meaningless internet drivel? That's what I thought.

But yeah, clearly I'm the one who's dumb for being ticked that they made a totally unnecessary change that breaks (at the very least temporarily) the tools I created to help other people.

Unknown

Let's focus our casual internet rage on D3Publisher and not on one another unless you piss me off.

Unknown

Snikrot wrote:

jozier wrote:

theHappyDance wrote:

Personally, I don't see any reason why this change is necessary, but it does totally break all the comparison tables and stats data in my roster tools. The cynic in me says that they're doing this to muck up the numbers on my roster tools and the wikia pages to make it harder for players to make informed decisions (since the data all needs to be collated again), since stupid /ignorant/ uninformed player base is easier to control and push to spend money than an intelligent / well-informed one with expectations that a game actually be fun vs. simply a framework to encourage micro-transactions.

Specifically, the devs yet again prove to be either a) inordinately incompetent or b) plain spiteful. I say this because there was no problem with level caps IMO. The problem was always in the broken gameplay dynamic centered around competition and healthpacks and artificially limiting play-time of people who don't want to buy more healthpacks or make duplicates of every character in their roster, and how offensive / defense were set up in PvP. So rather than fix what was broken, they take the obvious route and just see how much they can piss off their player-base even more.

If my roster tools data is all shot, there's 0 chance I'll ever come back to this game. Back when I was still playing, before the "True Healing" change (which like all changes that totally screw you over does the opposite of what its name implies), my roster tools and event spreadsheets allowed me to play this game semi-casually. Going through all your characters manually in-game is tedious, time-consuming, frustrating, and generally useless. They could've fixed things without breaking all the stats / data / etc.. collected by MPQ enthusiasts over the past ~6 months - year.

Why do they keep making changes that seem to be for the explicit purpose of pissing off their player base?

This is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

Jozier, how bout You take a break from MPQ and from forums in order to learn some manners?

How many times have you quit Emery? Get help for your addiction.

_RiO_

jozier wrote:

This is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

You're right; your response is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

What Happy is saying holds a modicum of thruth. From the developer's own commentary on the Venturebeat articles, one of the reasons they keep making changes to the underlying statistics is to push people out of their comfort zone and to keep them second guessing. Because a player in doubt is a player that can be easily steered into buying security, i.e., additional HP for shielding, additional covers, additional healthpacks, etc.

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

jozier wrote:

This is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

You're right; your response is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

What Happy is saying holds a modicum of thruth. From the developer's own commentary on the Venturebeat articles, one of the reasons they keep making changes to the underlying statistics is to push people out of their comfort zone and to keep them second guessing. Because a player in doubt is a player that can be easily steered into buying security, i.e., additional HP for shielding, additional covers, additional healthpacks, etc.

Yes, you're right, the devs are upping the level cap not for any of their stated reasons, but to target some nobody's roster tool nobody uses

Unknown

theHappyDance wrote:

Personally, I don't see any reason why this change is necessary, but it does totally break all the comparison tables and stats data in my roster tools. The cynic in me says that they're doing this to muck up the numbers on my roster tools and the wikia pages to make it harder for players to make informed decisions (since the data all needs to be collated again), since stupid /ignorant/ uninformed player base is easier to control and push to spend money than an intelligent / well-informed one with expectations that a game actually be fun vs. simply a framework to encourage micro-transactions.

Lazy to look it up but one statement from IceIX here was that they expect everyone to level every characters to level cap.

No strategy, tactics, thinking -- just go ahead spending the ISO.

Smart people are not fit as their target for obvious reasons and they shifted gear to clean up the roster.

Unknown

theHappyDance wrote:

jozier wrote:

This is the dumbest, whiniest response yet.

And what exactly have you ever done to meaningfully contribute to this community? Ever released any guides, stat tables, calculators, or anything else that can be considered more than just meaningless internet drivel? That's what I thought.

But yeah, clearly I'm the one who's dumb for being ticked that they made a totally unnecessary change that breaks (at the very least temporarily) the tools I created to help other people.

I suggest talking to the sandboxers in their thread. After the changes take place, the people with unlimited HP and ISO are your best bet for updating stats. I seriously mean this.

Unknown

Snikrot wrote:

Jozier, how bout You take a break from MPQ and from forums in order to learn some manners?

Irony. Epic irony.

Unknown

Snikrot wrote:

Jozier, how bout You take a break from MPQ and from forums in order to learn some manners?

I think MPQ is probaly still fit for him but really the forum contribution is not that great.

Unknown

Since all characters we fight will be higher level, we all take more damage per battle and take longer to heal (since damage increases proportionately with level and healing rates don't).... Good synergy with the blatant cash grab that is true healing.

I guess they decided the healing rates were too fast, and this was the easiest, and least obvious way to nerf it.

Sneaky, but I guess it's good business

Unknown

theHappyDance wrote:

Personally, I don't see any reason why this change is necessary, but it does totally break all the comparison tables and stats data in my roster tools. The cynic in me says that they're doing this to muck up the numbers on my roster tools and the wikia pages to make it harder for players to make informed decisions (since the data all needs to be collated again), since stupid /ignorant/ uninformed player base is easier to control and push to spend money than an intelligent / well-informed one with expectations that a game actually be fun vs. simply a framework to encourage micro-transactions.

Specifically, the devs yet again prove to be either a) inordinately incompetent or b) plain spiteful. I say this because there was no problem with level caps IMO. The problem was always in the broken gameplay dynamic centered around competition and healthpacks and artificially limiting play-time of people who don't want to buy more healthpacks or make duplicates of every character in their roster, and how offensive / defense were set up in PvP. So rather than fix what was broken, they take the obvious route and just see how much they can piss off their player-base even more.

If my roster tools data is all shot, there's 0 chance I'll ever come back to this game. Back when I was still playing, before the "True Healing" change (which like all changes that totally screw you over does the opposite of what its name implies), my roster tools and event spreadsheets allowed me to play this game semi-casually. Going through all your characters manually in-game is tedious, time-consuming, frustrating, and generally useless. They could've fixed things without breaking all the stats / data / etc.. collected by MPQ enthusiasts over the past ~6 months - year.

Why do they keep making changes that seem to be for the explicit purpose of pissing off their player base?

Hey, Happy, good hearing from you again.

I don't believe that the changes are going to be completely crippling to your tables. The changes are simply lateral shifts upward on the level chart. The only real expansion of data that is needed is 86-94 for 2**s, 142-166 for 3***s, and 231-270 for 4****s (in terms of 3 ability characters). For all other levels, the previous data is still valid as none of the underlying mechanics and stats have been changed.

In regard to your other comments, I believe that these issues all point back to Demiurge's prior history as a packages games manufacturer attempting to create a F2P game. The original incarnation of the game was much closer to a traditional console game, rather than a F2P game. Demiurge has committed countless errors in the operation and maintenance of the game, which have greatly documented in the past and are recapped constantly on the forum. The crux of these issues is that after 9-10 month of operation, the game really still is in its "Preview Edition", regardless of what the splash screen states.

Demiurge is still trying to figure out what the core rules of the game should be. Personally, I have no problem with True Healing at all. HOWEVER, I do have a problem with the functional rewrite of a core mechanic this late in game's life. True healing needed to be in at the start of the game, or at least no later than when the game went officially live ("Launch Edition"). Granted, yes, I believe that overall that this change is good for the long-term health of the game. However, Demiurge allowed players to become accustomed to traditional healing and build rosters with real money around a healing strategy for nearly a year. Surely, the epic amounts of data gathered by Demiurge signaled that this change was needed months ago, if not sooner.

Demiurge's continual dragging of their feet to fix character imbalance issues and core mechanic issues really stumps me. It's like getting a sandspur stuck in a finger. Yes, it hurts, and yes it is going to hurt even more when the sandspur is pulled out of the finger. But, the overall pain is less than when the finger is left to heal the initial wound and then reopens the wound pulling the sandspur out at a later time. On Al's Game Blog, he writes that players will "get over" changes and nerfs, with I do not have a problem in believing. If this is case though, why are all of the necessary gameplay balancing changes requiring more time than a tectonic plate shift to occur? Spidey took over 5 months from announcement of the nerf to finally be put down behind the barn, and CMags is still on Death Row after 6 months with at least another month (given current rebalancing pacing) before he is summoned to the electric chair.

I really, honestly, think at times that this game needed to be baked for an additional year before being launched to avoid all of the missteps that have occurred along the way over MPQ's existence.

Unknown

Lyrian wrote:

Hey, Happy, good hearing from you again.

I don't believe that the changes are going to be completely crippling to your tables. The changes are simply lateral shifts upward on the level chart. The only real expansion of data that is needed is 86-94 for 2**s, 142-166 for 3***s, and 231-270 for 4****s (in terms of 3 ability characters). For all other levels, the previous data is still valid as none of the underlying mechanics and stats have been changed.

You too. How's Chaos League hangin in there?

So the shift doesn't directly break the ISO spend tables, though it does make significant gaps as you noted. What it does break is the level cap calculator, and all the stats data, unless there's no shift in current stats.

At the very least, it does require modifying a bunch of stuff in the roster tools, which is a PITA, especially since I'm no longer playing the game, and had just put the finishing touches on them a couple days ago to make them community maintainable.

BTW, for anyone interested, Puzzle Quest 1 and 2 are both on sale for $5 in the steam summer sale. Unlike this game, those are both finished products that you can pickup and play whenever you want and don't have constant changes to screw you over.

Spoit

Talking about things that are "for the good of the game", how are people feeling now about making the boosts costs HP? Especially with Sentry

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theHappyDance wrote:

You too. How's Chaos League hangin in there?

As always, hanging together by duct tape and bubblegum. That said, I believe most of the older alliances are pretty much in this situation nowadays. Much props to Mischief, though, for keeping the alliance together as players are leaving as fast as they can be added to the roster. Been shorthanded for awhile, but even with the alliance's laid back attitude, we are still placing for alliance covers every event. Being able to allow 1/4 of an alliance to sit out a event and still place does wonders for overall longevity and mitigating burnout.

On the level shift, nothing is changing at all on the underlying mechanics, leveling cap/criteria, or stats outside of the new levels above and beyond the old caps. Literally, all you need to do is add 9 to the levels of 2**s (6 --> 15, 85 --> 94), 25 to 3***s ( 15--> 40), and 40 to 4****s (30 --> 70). Somewhere back in this thread, IceIX said that was a simple restatement of the level ranges (2**s still grow 79 levels, 3***s 126 levels, and 4****s 200 levels), with only LevelMin and LevelMax changing for each star's rarity range. Everything else stays the same.

dkffiv

I'd like to point out that Iron Man and I'd assume Hulk are on a roughly 7 hour respawn timer if downed and can only presume that will turn into 8+ hours with the level shift. You are completely **** over players would built around tanks (or whichever character they got covers for first) instead of assassins.

Unknown

Lyrian wrote:

theHappyDance wrote:

You too. How's Chaos League hangin in there?

As always, hanging together by duct tape and bubblegum. That said, I believe most of the older alliances are pretty much in this situation nowadays. Much props to Mischief, though, for keeping the alliance together as players are leaving as fast as they can be added to the roster. Been shorthanded for awhile, but even with the alliance's laid back attitude, we are still placing for alliance covers every event. Being able to allow 1/4 of an alliance to sit out a event and still place does wonders for overall longevity and mitigating burnout.

On the level shift, nothing is changing at all on the underlying mechanics, leveling cap/criteria, or stats outside of the new levels above and beyond the old caps. Literally, all you need to do is add 9 to the levels of 2**s (6 --> 15, 85 --> 94), 25 to 3***s ( 15--> 40), and 40 to 4****s (30 --> 70). Somewhere back in this thread, IceIX said that was a simple restatement of the level ranges (2**s still grow 79 levels, 3***s 126 levels, and 4****s 200 levels), with only LevelMin and LevelMax changing for each star's rarity range. Everything else stays the same.

Yeah, Mischiefmaker's a champ. If that's the case, it shouldn't be too horrible to update, as long as it's a straight shift and not spread out from the old range to the new range, though I still don't see a solid reason for the change. Will take a crack at it later on tonight maybe.