Upcoming Change: Character Level Shift

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  • Unknown
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    pasa_ wrote:
    The devs really need to address the MMR issue before anything else. cause there is no reason someone with 2 141' and a buffed featured should be able to see and take away points form someone with 2 85's and a features a little above 100 in a pvp. i'd be different if i wanted to fight out of my weight class and try and get points higher than 27, it's another to be socked from behind and lose 35 points from someone if i could retaliated against and get 7 points back

    Quite the opposite as long as everyone fights in the same arena for the same stuff, there is no reason to have MMR at all.
    Why you think a developed guy deserves to see only 141 folks? What is the benefit of leveling up and be in the top 1%? Not to be able to meet weaker opponents 99% of the time?

    Just as you with your 85s that let's assume are good for the best 25% should have easy time to find lower opponents and get points, and not be bothered if a really rare 141 guy hits you instead a much weaker someone.

    If games are assigned by MMR there should be massive advantage from having it high, being able to get much bigger prizes like that happens elsewhere with such system in place.


    that is the point of MMR buckets and brackets, this isn't "no holds barred"; it should be an even field for everyone. i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me. if you are a 1% that have all 141's, then you should fight only the 141's teams and not be able to hit lower guys. that is like having a heavy weight sucker punching someone from behind in the middle weight class, you think that's fair, he'd go to jail??? if you are too much "weak sauce", to fight someone in your weight class play candy crush. just cause you want easy points from someone you know that can't retaliate back and you won't lose too many hit point because you are probably using patch and 3* daken. you know what part of woman's anatomy you are. suck it up and fight your own MMR buckets.

    image.png
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ghast wrote:
    pasa_ wrote:
    The devs really need to address the MMR issue before anything else. cause there is no reason someone with 2 141' and a buffed featured should be able to see and take away points form someone with 2 85's and a features a little above 100 in a pvp. i'd be different if i wanted to fight out of my weight class and try and get points higher than 27, it's another to be socked from behind and lose 35 points from someone if i could retaliated against and get 7 points back

    Quite the opposite as long as everyone fights in the same arena for the same stuff, there is no reason to have MMR at all.
    Why you think a developed guy deserves to see only 141 folks? What is the benefit of leveling up and be in the top 1%? Not to be able to meet weaker opponents 99% of the time?

    Just as you with your 85s that let's assume are good for the best 25% should have easy time to find lower opponents and get points, and not be bothered if a really rare 141 guy hits you instead a much weaker someone.

    If games are assigned by MMR there should be massive advantage from having it high, being able to get much bigger prizes like that happens elsewhere with such system in place.


    that is the point of MMR buckets and brackets, this isn't "no holds barred"; it should be an even field for everyone. i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me. if you are a 1% that have all 141's, then you should fight only the 141's teams and not be able to hit lower guys. that is like having a heavy weight sucker punching someone from behind in the middle weight class, you think that's fair, he'd go to jail??? if you are too much "weak sauce", to fight someone in your weight class play candy crush. just cause you want easy points from someone you know that can't retaliate back and you won't lose too many hit point because you are probably using patch and 3* daken. you know what part of woman's anatomy you are. suck it up and fight your own MMR buckets.

    image.png


    May the MMR gods bless your PvE scaling and then you'll need to call the waaaaamublance and your mommy to hold you.
  • Unknown
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    that is the point of MMR buckets and brackets, this isn't "no holds barred"; it should be an even field for everyone. i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me. if you are a 1% that have all 141's, then you should fight only the 141's teams and not be able to hit lower guys. that is like having a heavy weight sucker punching someone from behind in the middle weight class, you think that's fair, he'd go to jail??? if you are too much "weak sauce", to fight someone in your weight class play candy crush. just cause you want easy points from someone you know that can't retaliate back and you won't lose too many hit point because you are probably using patch and 3* daken. you know what part of woman's anatomy you are. suck it up and fight your own MMR buckets.

    You sound like locked, ****.

    Grow up you crybaby. You want to win? Beat the best instead of being a **** **** chump.
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    jozier wrote:
    that is the point of MMR buckets and brackets, this isn't "no holds barred"; it should be an even field for everyone. i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me. if you are a 1% that have all 141's, then you should fight only the 141's teams and not be able to hit lower guys. that is like having a heavy weight sucker punching someone from behind in the middle weight class, you think that's fair, he'd go to jail??? if you are too much "weak sauce", to fight someone in your weight class play candy crush. just cause you want easy points from someone you know that can't retaliate back and you won't lose too many hit point because you are probably using patch and 3* daken. you know what part of woman's anatomy you are. suck it up and fight your own MMR buckets.

    You sound like locked, ****.

    Grow up you crybaby. You want to win? Beat the best instead of being a **** **** chump.

    can't you read i did say "i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me." i just saying why should i lose points for bullies that can't fight peeps their own size. losing -40 points to this ****, before "true healing" means yeah i have to do a match or 2 more and continue playing, no problem. but now, it's pretty devastating in pvp point generation with the limited amount of matches i can do before health packs are gone and character are done for that session, i don't have 30 competitive characters like all you "i don't need to prologue heals" rosters. and all you can do in a discussion is call me names, there will be no reasoning with ignorance.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
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    Stop mentioning my name, jozier boy. When I **** on the same matter as killerkoala months ago, I was a newb like killer is now which you conveniently bypass. It's not your business to shut people up, anyway, this is not your forum. icon_rolleyes.gif


    killer, unfortunately, the prizes are the same like pasa mentions, whether you fight similar opposition or weaker/tougher teams. There seems to be no special prize for having multiple 3*s - there are always more 3*s that you can level, etc. You can earn more HP and ISO with a stronger roster, but all of this requires time, too. At least you should be able to enjoy lower scaling in Story events and saner brackets in PvP events if you manage to progress steadily and not jump over your head/get stuck behind.
  • Unknown
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    pasa_ wrote:
    The devs really need to address the MMR issue before anything else. cause there is no reason someone with 2 141' and a buffed featured should be able to see and take away points form someone with 2 85's and a features a little above 100 in a pvp. i'd be different if i wanted to fight out of my weight class and try and get points higher than 27, it's another to be socked from behind and lose 35 points from someone if i could retaliated against and get 7 points back

    Quite the opposite as long as everyone fights in the same arena for the same stuff, there is no reason to have MMR at all.
    Why you think a developed guy deserves to see only 141 folks? What is the benefit of leveling up and be in the top 1%? Not to be able to meet weaker opponents 99% of the time?

    Just as you with your 85s that let's assume are good for the best 25% should have easy time to find lower opponents and get points, and not be bothered if a really rare 141 guy hits you instead a much weaker someone.

    If games are assigned by MMR there should be massive advantage from having it high, being able to get much bigger prizes like that happens elsewhere with such system in place.


    that is the point of MMR buckets and brackets, this isn't "no holds barred"; it should be an even field for everyone. i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me. if you are a 1% that have all 141's, then you should fight only the 141's teams and not be able to hit lower guys. that is like having a heavy weight sucker punching someone from behind in the middle weight class, you think that's fair, he'd go to jail??? if you are too much "weak sauce", to fight someone in your weight class play candy crush. just cause you want easy points from someone you know that can't retaliate back and you won't lose too many hit point because you are probably using patch and 3* daken. you know what part of woman's anatomy you are. suck it up and fight your own MMR buckets.

    So you're basically saying that you should get easy matches because you haven't progressed & people that have progressed should only get tough fights?
    If your logic was strictly applied, then no one would want to progress because you'd only have tough fights.
    Additionally you're under some delusional spell if you think mmr doesn't strictly take care of this. Unless you're in mmr hell, 0-500 pts is wide open. You can end up fighting anyone. Experienced people can fight anyone. At 500 pts, the first change in opponents happens. You see max 2* & above teams from 500-800. No more 1* or low 2* teams anymore & if you do they're worth literally 4 pts or so (not worth the trouble). Above 800 is straight 141s mostly. Again maybe so max 2* teams creep into one'is queue for 2-3 pts which is definetly not worth it cause 141 teams are trying to take your points. 2* teams are actually nightmares for elite players because you can beat us for 30-40 pts & we only get 10 back. I was glad when I finally had a max LT & BP to stop those guys from taking my points (who are guys fighting outside their weight class as you put it)

    So 141 teams do have their bracketing. It's just done in terms of node queues & not in terms of overall brackets. Also remember these teams of 141s make up a very small percentage of overall teams maybe 1-3% overall

    So if you're too weak to beat 141s regularly, then do the following:
    1) do a better job of entering events so you get a better bracket. There are better & worse times to start. I'll give one free piece of advice here: never ever start right when an event starts. That's a rookie mistake
    2) find a good alliance. 5DA, xmen, we sorry & a few others have multiple alliances. Join one. Ask questions. They will teach you stuff to get better
    3) go farm ISO 24/7 if you wanna get better. Level up your guys. Every single elite player complains about a lack of ISO & not a lack of hp. ISO is easier to find in game but elite players need ever increasing sums of ISO.

    So rather than complaining about perceived injustices, go play more efficiently & get better. Or YOU can leave to go play candy crush
  • Unknown
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    The change probably won't hurt, but the big reason 3*s remain unleveled is not that you have to level them up to 100 for them to be useful, but that you need a ton of covers for the powers themselves to be useful.

    When you start fighting 3*s, you don't win by powerful matching, or by having a bit more HP, but by throwing powers around. Bersker's rage x2 + 5 blue for magneto means a dead team.

    So Imagine I am a 2* player, and I get 6 covers of patch and 6 magneto covers, 2x everything. At what level would they be better than running OBW + Thor? If you boosted them to level 200, I'd still use the 2*s, because with just 2 covers for each power, they are doorstops.

    Right now you won't see any serious use of an unboosted 3* until 10 covers because of powers and levels. If you boost the levels, we might start to see them used at 4-4-0, but that's not really that big a deal. And some characters will be used even less.

    You can also do the math and see at which level Lazy Thor starts to outdamage, powers wise, a 2* thor that is maxed out, when he is stuck with 5-8 covers. It ain't pretty.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This whole argument is derailing the actual topic at hand (which has basically run it's course anyway, so not much harm done I guess). Plus it's pointless. Guy complaining, go tank your MMR if you're worried about facing too many fully maxed 3* teams (doesn't sound like you are, so why are you complaining?). Everyone else, why worry about some guy complaining? That happens everywhere on these forums. Also to the first guy - even us 141s (I only have 2, but whatever I'll join the group cause I don't tank and have a few others cover-maxed) get whacked for -40s by other 3* teams (and sometimes 2* teams!) so it's just something you have to learn to live with until the devs figure out how to fix it.
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    pasa_ wrote:
    The devs really need to address the MMR issue before anything else. cause there is no reason someone with 2 141' and a buffed featured should be able to see and take away points form someone with 2 85's and a features a little above 100 in a pvp. i'd be different if i wanted to fight out of my weight class and try and get points higher than 27, it's another to be socked from behind and lose 35 points from someone if i could retaliated against and get 7 points back

    Quite the opposite as long as everyone fights in the same arena for the same stuff, there is no reason to have MMR at all.
    Why you think a developed guy deserves to see only 141 folks? What is the benefit of leveling up and be in the top 1%? Not to be able to meet weaker opponents 99% of the time?

    Just as you with your 85s that let's assume are good for the best 25% should have easy time to find lower opponents and get points, and not be bothered if a really rare 141 guy hits you instead a much weaker someone.

    If games are assigned by MMR there should be massive advantage from having it high, being able to get much bigger prizes like that happens elsewhere with such system in place.




    that is the point of MMR buckets and brackets, this isn't "no holds barred"; it should be an even field for everyone. i'll fight 85's and some 100's and 141's, if i want to, it'd be a risk / reward gamble for me. if you are a 1% that have all 141's, then you should fight only the 141's teams and not be able to hit lower guys. that is like having a heavy weight sucker punching someone from behind in the middle weight class, you think that's fair, he'd go to jail??? if you are too much "weak sauce", to fight someone in your weight class play candy crush. just cause you want easy points from someone you know that can't retaliate back and you won't lose too many hit point because you are probably using patch and 3* daken. you know what part of woman's anatomy you are. suck it up and fight your own MMR buckets.

    So you're basically saying that you should get easy matches because you haven't progressed & people that have progressed should only get tough fights?
    If your logic was strictly applied, then no one would want to progress because you'd only have tough fights.
    Additionally you're under some delusional spell if you think mmr doesn't strictly take care of this. Unless you're in mmr hell, 0-500 pts is wide open. You can end up fighting anyone. Experienced people can fight anyone. At 500 pts, the first change in opponents happens. You see max 2* & above teams from 500-800. No more 1* or low 2* teams anymore & if you do they're worth literally 4 pts or so (not worth the trouble). Above 800 is straight 141s mostly. Again maybe so max 2* teams creep into one'is queue for 2-3 pts which is definetly not worth it cause 141 teams are trying to take your points. 2* teams are actually nightmares for elite players because you can beat us for 30-40 pts & we only get 10 back. I was glad when I finally had a max LT & BP to stop those guys from taking my points (who are guys fighting outside their weight class as you put it)

    So 141 teams do have their bracketing. It's just done in terms of node queues & not in terms of overall brackets. Also remember these teams of 141s make up a very small percentage of overall teams maybe 1-3% overall

    So if you're too weak to beat 141s regularly, then do the following:
    1) do a better job of entering events so you get a better bracket. There are better & worse times to start. I'll give one free piece of advice here: never ever start right when an event starts. That's a rookie mistake
    2) find a good alliance. 5DA, xmen, we sorry & a few others have multiple alliances. Join one. Ask questions. They will teach you stuff to get better
    3) go farm ISO 24/7 if you wanna get better. Level up your guys. Every single elite player complains about a lack of ISO & not a lack of hp. ISO is easier to find in game but elite players need ever increasing sums of ISO.

    So rather than complaining about perceived injustices, go play more efficiently & get better. Or YOU can leave to go play candy crush


    i wasn't asking for easier matches. nor complaining or seeking "injustice" about the levels of the teams I fight, it's my choice i can skip them if i want. i am saying why should i be penalized in PvP for heavy weights wanting "easy matches" and losing -40 points to them.
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    hibikir wrote:
    The change probably won't hurt, but the big reason 3*s remain unleveled is not that you have to level them up to 100 for them to be useful, but that you need a ton of covers for the powers themselves to be useful.

    When you start fighting 3*s, you don't win by powerful matching, or by having a bit more HP, but by throwing powers around. Bersker's rage x2 + 5 blue for magneto means a dead team.

    So Imagine I am a 2* player, and I get 6 covers of patch and 6 magneto covers, 2x everything. At what level would they be better than running OBW + Thor? If you boosted them to level 200, I'd still use the 2*s, because with just 2 covers for each power, they are doorstops.

    Right now you won't see any serious use of an unboosted 3* until 10 covers because of powers and levels. If you boost the levels, we might start to see them used at 4-4-0, but that's not really that big a deal. And some characters will be used even less.

    You can also do the math and see at which level Lazy Thor starts to outdamage, powers wise, a 2* thor that is maxed out, when he is stuck with 5-8 covers. It ain't pretty.
    I had a 1/4/4 LT for quite a while and once I maxed him out to lvl 92, he was roughly equal to my maxed 2* Thor, doing a little more damage with yellow and green, but less with red. I suppose with "true healing" I'd have rotated him in when my 2* was low/dead, but I still preferred the 2* version because 5 covers in yellow is much better than 4. In your example, no one would want to run those guys cause magneto's powers (red and blue at least) scale significantly with # of covers and are almost useless at just 2. Similarly with Patch his regen is really weak with fewer covers, but his other abilities aren't quite as bad at lower cover amounts. Some abilities are effected by # of covers much more than others, so this change will effect different characters differently.
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mohio wrote:
    This whole argument is derailing the actual topic at hand (which has basically run it's course anyway, so not much harm done I guess). Plus it's pointless. Guy complaining, go tank your MMR if you're worried about facing too many fully maxed 3* teams (doesn't sound like you are, so why are you complaining?). Everyone else, why worry about some guy complaining? That happens everywhere on these forums. Also to the first guy - even us 141s (I only have 2, but whatever I'll join the group cause I don't tank and have a few others cover-maxed) get whacked for -40s by other 3* teams (and sometimes 2* teams!) so it's just something you have to learn to live with until the devs figure out how to fix it.

    yeah your right my original post was about why levels being added to characters when MMR seemed more broken. then it went off track to others thinking i wanted easier matches for some reason. as for being whacked -40 at a time i could deal with it pre "true healing", but now it touches a nerve with my small roster and health pack limitations.
  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,609 Chairperson of the Boards
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    i wasn't asking for easier matches. nor complaining or seeking "injustice" about the levels of the teams I fight, it's my choice i can skip them if i want. i am saying why should i be penalized in PvP for heavy weights wanting "easy matches" and losing -40 points to them.

    EVERYONE wants an "easy match". You do too.

    Even playing field would be:
    EVERYONE faces 141's
    or
    EVERYONE faces 85's

    Then we sort it out at the end and see who had the best score.

    You're basically asking for a JV league. Which is fine, if it has JV prizes.
  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,609 Chairperson of the Boards
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    As for this actual change, I think it's fine. Anyone complaining about it is just looking for something to complain about. It helps people with incomplete characters and hurts no one. Move on.
  • Unknown
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    One thing this may do is mean there's more of a middle ground between maxed 2*s and maxed 3*s. I'm in that middle ground myself (varsity team is 109/110), and will be for a while, but it's rare I see anyone else at a similar level in PVP - I'm usually stuck either fighting 141s or 85s (or, weirdly, a 141 and an 85), with maybe one team in fifty in between. With 72 levels now between 2* and 3*, people may be more willing to spend some time in that zone rather than spending it all at one or the other.
  • TheHueyFreeman
    TheHueyFreeman Posts: 472 Mover and Shaker
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    The only thing this does is make me wonder whether any of the 4 stars will be usable.
  • Unknown
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    The only thing this does is make me wonder whether any of the 4 stars will be usable.

    It should make the 4* more viable in a few ways:
    1) 40 extra levels starts to fix the match damage difference between 3* (67 max at 141) & 4* (70 max at 230)
    2) it makes them have bigger health quicker
    3) lastly when they are closer to max, they really should be a big step up from max 3* from more health & scaled powers (tho xforce & IW still need some positive fun balancing to "truly" be effective)
  • Unknown
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    Man, I'm excited about this change now. As a 2* player, getting a second cover for a 3* was always sort of insulting, since it only moved the level cap from 15 to 18. Now it'll move it from 40 to 43! This makes all the different 3* characters I've been sitting on instantly competitive, or at least helps me realize how competitive they've always been. I simply didn't know better, was all. My four cover/two power Hulk will be a massive benefit to my roster. Before, if I had gotten him another cover, his cap would have gone from 38 to 51, but now, he'd be going from 63 to 76! Goodbye Ares! My 0/2/3 Im40 will go from 51 to 63 too! Goodbye Thor! This buffs my roster to the max!
  • Unknown
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    IceIX wrote:
    Most forumites seem to agree that Magneto is overpowered and deserves a small nerf, but also seem to agree that he isn't being heavily overused.
    He's not heavily overused in PVP. In PVE on the other hand, he and Good Ol' Tuxedo Man are by far and away the most used characters in the advanced 3* crowd.

    Magneto was voted by the players here In this forum as the most fun to play with character, why do you guys are going to nerf him?
    Please stop ruining characters
  • Unknown
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    This level cap increase is going to ruin my hero equality plan of having all my secondary 3* heroes capped at 94 so they get boosted to 141 so I have a team of 3 141s every tournament. Now all the ones I've already got to 94 are going to get boosted to 189 and leave the other two behind at 166! You're punishing the minority OCDs with this thoughtless update!!
  • Unknown
    edited June 2014
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    At first reading I liked this change. I assumed only the Base Level is getting upped. So my lvl 89 Patch is finally usable in PVP. But after reading I realized that the max level cap was upped aswell. With that my patch is most likely still worse than my new lvl 96 2 Stars.

    So I don't get the point of that.

    I just realized the most obvious explanation is that the Devs want you to level all your characters. If you have 6 Covers for some 3 Star and its sitting on Lvl 15, they want you to pour lots of ISO into him right here and now.