True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

Unknown

yogi_ wrote:

This from IceIX via http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10735&start=20#p177017.

"We haven't abandoned discussion on the healing changes, there's simply nothing for us to actively contribute at the moment. The change is made, we're monitoring that thread (and others) to see what general discussion is like. We're also heavily monitoring associated data streams such as play times and play patterns across multiple tiers of player types to see if the change made the difference we were expecting. We need at the *very* least a full PVE Event to see how player patterns change during the Event to start to get an idea of what worked and what can be iterated on. Trust me, we're listening. I just don't have anything that I can say other than that until we figure out precisely what the change did in total."

I think these are the very comments that make me want to Emeryt my roster immediately.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Taking 3 Headbutts + 2 World Ruptures isn't something you could've possibly survived based on the old scaling.

I'm not really sure that's the point. The point is, my PvE experience has never consisted of "all or nothing" nodes that were going to force me to use health packs anyway.

Phantron's post was about fighting 300+ that was responded with switching context to one's experience with (guess) 100-ish or even lower...

In the old time scaled arena any ability going off downed one of your heroes. You could win only through perfect denial till the end. Looking for minutes before each match, juggling with 13 flaming maces. Then if you actually won the game decided it was too easy as you the enemy was not allowed an ability use, and you took puny few k damage while causing 30-40k and bumped your levels even more.

yogi_

Just watched the video from the link in Snikrot's signature.

Stunned.

Is there a thread somewhere about this?

Chaga

So after logging some days after the nerf, I noticed that my ISO daily reward dropped from 190-200 to 130-140.
So clearly a lot of guildies decided to quit.
What amazes me the most, is that D3 is probably the only publisher that patches a successful game to encourage paying customers not to pay anymore, and non-paying ones to play way way less!
So seriously, who the hell is benefiting from that latest patch???
Players are playing less and getting irritated more, and publisher is gonna end up making less money. It's a lose lose situation to everyone.

yogi_

Snikrot wrote:

yogi_ wrote:

Just watched the video from the link in Snikrot's signature.

Stunned.

Is there a thread somewhere about this?

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10333

Well, I learnt a lot. What precisely, I can't be sure, but something somewhere...

Unknown

Chaga wrote:

So after logging some days after the nerf, I noticed that my ISO daily reward dropped from 190-200 to 130-140.
So clearly a lot of guildies decided to quit.
What amazes me the most, is that D3 is probably the only publisher that patches a successful game to encourage paying customers not to pay anymore, and non-paying ones to play way way less!
So seriously, who the hell is benefiting from that latest patch???
Players are playing less and getting irritated more, and publisher is gonna end up making less money. It's a lose lose situation to everyone.

We figured the metric some moron there chases, probably to get some bonus is an average figure like that revenue from daily active players. That actually has a chance to go up after such change making most people with sense leave, the rest being happy to pay up more or hopelessly addicted to endure whatever further changes that aim spending up.

And if the bottom line suffers it's some other moron's problem who put the first one in charge -- but it has massive delay to notice.

I heard people who linger on already back to use more boosts than before, once stock is depleted it will show on other areas of consumption. Also push for investments on characters with more benefit. But you can bet once that wave is over another drastic change comes that will ask for different investments and current ones go down the drain.

simonsez

pasa_ wrote:

Phantron's post was about fighting 300+ that was responded with switching context to one's experience with (guess) 100-ish or even lower...

Ok, I'll say it again. Fighting 300+ was never MY experience. I totally get that you guys using pre-nerf Spidey and CMag infinite turns are playing a different game than the rest of us, but you guys need to remember the same thing too. For most players, PvE is trading blows, and trying to keep major attacks to a minimum (but probably absorbing one or two along the way), and perhaps healing when necessary. Unless it's an all-goon level, leaving with damage is not something we can avoid.

Unknown

Healing & regeneration in this game is a true mess.
Casual players can't play all the day to your game and waiting 5 or 6 hours to be able to play again with a dead character is a total non sense.
If i can play, i play one or two hour per day, not every 4 hours a day.

No one should wait more than 1 hour (max) to be able to play again. We're talking about a game, not a waiting queue. What i want is playing, not waiting.

In fact the only thing you've achieved to do is that everybody will continue to play with wolverine, the only hero who can survive more than a few fights. It reminds me of the previous "funbalance" (no fun nor balance sadly) patch. Everyone is still playing with wolverine & Thor as they're the only viable 2* characters you've created. You've just added Ares as a Thor's clone...
Having a playable 3* could help but it's almost impossible to a casual player. Only chance can help.

The more heroes you're adding, the less someone can have sufficient covers to be able to play with one in particular.

This game needs serious balance, that's what i've already said when you've nerfed Spiderman. Healing and playability issues weren't solved at this time.
Neither now.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

You sure you're not talking about the upper right nodes? The highest level node in the last event was Daken + Lieutenant + Soldier at bottom right and they have no use for any color whatsoever, and you're not going to outlast Daken with a Lieutenant behind him unless you did some serious damage very early.

The easier the node is the bigger an impact healing has, but the nodes that really make or break your placement usually are far too difficult to approach in an attrition format reliably. In Heroic DA I'm seeing level 127 Ares and level 103 Juggernaut on the middle path, and they take at least 25% health with any of their AP consuming moves. Even the level 75 Sentry + Juggernaut + Analyst on the essentials can easily get nasty if they fire off a couple of their red abilities. I've been sitting at around #10 overall for a while so maybe my nodes are higher, but I'm guessing anyone getting in that range will face a similarly level enemy. Now of course if your placement is lower you could have easier enemies, but what's the point of extended playing if it's not to advance your ranking? As you get close to the top, the hard nodes will become all or nothing.

If you're talking about the last event, I was hitting the bottom right nodes regularly, and then (prior to the last 12 hours) usually prologue healing after. That one tended to end with most of my people ~25-50% down, as I remember it, once scaling really kicked in. It was impossible to do without taking a fair amount of damage, but I rarely, if ever, got people downed by it, partially because I'd rotate who was in front to keep people from getting downed, and partially because Wolverine could usually keep getting himself back to 50% health and none of the enemies had moves that could take him out. I came in #2 in that event and still wasn't seeing all or nothing nodes. It may well be my strategy is keeping my scaling down.

_RiO_

yogi_ wrote:

This from IceIX via http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10735&start=20#p177017.

"We haven't abandoned discussion on the healing changes, there's simply nothing for us to actively contribute at the moment. The change is made, we're monitoring that thread (and others) to see what general discussion is like. We're also heavily monitoring associated data streams such as play times and play patterns across multiple tiers of player types to see if the change made the difference we were expecting. We need at the *very* least a full PVE Event to see how player patterns change during the Event to start to get an idea of what worked and what can be iterated on. Trust me, we're listening. I just don't have anything that I can say other than that until we figure out precisely what the change did in total."

Translate:
"We aren't really sure how to respond to this unprecedented level of pushback from players. A reversal of the change clashes with both our business goals and publicly released statement, so we can't really come out and do that. Instead we're going to dangle a carrot in the hopes that everything will simmer down and will be forgotten in two weeks time."

Hissori

Ok, so this experimentment has failed. I'm still only fighting the exact same characters. There is no diversity whatsoever. Im always fighting whatever the buffed chatacter and *** mags, *** thor and patch. No diversity in characters what so ever. No alternate strategies. Just kill them before they get too many greens...wow. fail...

killerkoala

Hissori wrote:

Ok, so this experimentment has failed. I'm still only fighting the exact same characters. There is no diversity whatsoever. Im always fighting whatever the buffed chatacter and *** mags, *** thor and patch. No diversity in characters what so ever. No alternate strategies. Just kill them before they get too many greens...wow. fail...

no increase in 3* daken?

Hissori

No. Dakken shows up about the same frequency. I figured I'd take this opportunity to try my different combos as well. I have maxed 230 xforce, 8 maxed 141characters, and an assortment of 115_117 3* that I dont have covers for their 3rd skill. Mag/thor or mag/patch combos is all I seem to fight. That combo tends to beat almost all of my chatacters unless I boost up. Im only top 10 because I have so many playable characters. But I never seem to pull any "odd" combos from anyone else. Always the same ones. Just gets old and boring.

Unknown

Hissori wrote:

Mag/thor or mag/patch combos is all I seem to fight.

C.Mag is so prevalent because he's got 2 broken abilites when combined with strike tiles, and a strong third attack on a seldom used color.

Blue and red are both independently broken, and together are even worse. He needs to be nerfed sooner rather than later. 2AP red is ridiculous, and 5ap blue that breaks even or generates 1 extra is equally ridiculous.

Hissori wrote:

But I never seem to pull any "odd" combos from anyone else.

My own experience is that i often will use Odd combos of maxed characters, but I always end my runs on my strongest defensive teams.

People may be using odd teams, but always ending on strong defensive teams.

Spoit

^Yeah, while patch and laken can heal, cmags is the go to for barely taking any hits to begin with

_RiO_ wrote:

yogi_ wrote:

This from IceIX via http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10735&start=20#p177017.

"We haven't abandoned discussion on the healing changes, there's simply nothing for us to actively contribute at the moment. The change is made, we're monitoring that thread (and others) to see what general discussion is like. We're also heavily monitoring associated data streams such as play times and play patterns across multiple tiers of player types to see if the change made the difference we were expecting. We need at the *very* least a full PVE Event to see how player patterns change during the Event to start to get an idea of what worked and what can be iterated on. Trust me, we're listening. I just don't have anything that I can say other than that until we figure out precisely what the change did in total."

Translate:
"We aren't really sure how to respond to this unprecedented level of pushback from players. A reversal of the change clashes with both our business goals and publicly released statement, so we can't really come out and do that. Instead we're going to dangle a carrot in the hopes that everything will simmer down and will be forgotten in two weeks time."

This too will pass

Unknown

Hey guys, any word on whether or not it's still possible to place with a 2* roster if you can only play in the mornings and evenings?

On EU time?

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Hey guys, any word on whether or not it's still possible to place with a 2* roster if you can only play in the mornings and evenings?

On EU time?

I hit a bunch of 2* players with 800+ points so you should be able to make top 10 with a shield.

Unknown

I don't post on the forums to much but I have monitored them since the game came out so that I could be a casual user and still get a good roster. I am not as hard core as a lot of the people on here are, but I just wanted to post my opinion. This update is absolutely the worst for me. To give some background on my roster, I have a lvl 105 spiderman, 85 2*Wolverine, 85 2*thor, 85 2*storm. Then I have some 3* ranging from the high 60's to the base 15. As someone who has every 2* hero and maxed covers(still working on maxing with iso on the important ones like OBW) and 2 or 3 covers on most 3*s but none that are maxed. My top 3* is spiderman who could max at 115 at the moment, my next closest is patch in the 60's.

This update basically eliminates me from winning covers in any PVP event. I used to use spiderman and wolverine and the random 3rd hero depending on tournament, the reason why i used spiderman was because he did 2 things for me, gave me decent damage on blues and purples(as well as the shields basically made me immune to tile match damage) but the bigger reason was I would save his yellow healing power to just before i won my match and healed up to almost max. Doing this gave me the option of playing another match right after so that I could play like 5 matches in a row. It wouldn't be such a big deal if i wasn't always paired with teams that have all 110+ characters. I get shredded from every match I play and the healing ability was the only thing I could do to be competitive. With this update 2 things now happen, my hero's get damaged enough in the first fight that I don't dare go into another battle because I will lose, but I can't use my other players because they are not leveled or powerful enough to defeat the enemies I'm paired against. Then If i try and play with the bad roster to gain more points, not only do I lose, people now see my bad roster and i get attacked for tons of negative points.

If I only use my top roster I can only play the game like once every 30 minutes or an hour. I don't want to play one match then put the game away, then remember in an hour I can play one more game. I'd rather just play a game I can play as much as I'd like.

I'm not saying to reverse this update, but I am asking for them to fix it immediately with a better solution because at this point, it's basically unplayable.

killerkoala

heavydwayne wrote:

I don't post on the forums to much but I have monitored them since the game came out so that I could be a casual user and still get a good roster. I am not as hard core as a lot of the people on here are, but I just wanted to post my opinion. This update is absolutely the worst for me. To give some background on my roster, I have a lvl 105 spiderman, 85 2*Wolverine, 85 2*thor, 85 2*storm. Then I have some 3* ranging from the high 60's to the base 15. As someone who has every 2* hero and maxed covers(still working on maxing with iso on the important ones like OBW) and 2 or 3 covers on most 3*s but none that are maxed. My top 3* is spiderman who could max at 115 at the moment, my next closest is patch in the 60's.

This update basically eliminates me from winning covers in any PVP event. I used to use spiderman and wolverine and the random 3rd hero depending on tournament, the reason why i used spiderman was because he did 2 things for me, gave me decent damage on blues and purples(as well as the shields basically made me immune to tile match damage) but the bigger reason was I would save his yellow healing power to just before i won my match and healed up to almost max. Doing this gave me the option of playing another match right after so that I could play like 5 matches in a row. It wouldn't be such a big deal if i wasn't always paired with teams that have all 110+ characters. I get shredded from every match I play and the healing ability was the only thing I could do to be competitive. With this update 2 things now happen, my hero's get damaged enough in the first fight that I don't dare go into another battle because I will lose, but I can't use my other players because they are not leveled or powerful enough to defeat the enemies I'm paired against. Then If i try and play with the bad roster to gain more points, not only do I lose, people now see my bad roster and i get attacked for tons of negative points.

If I only use my top roster I can only play the game like once every 30 minutes or an hour. I don't want to play one match then put the game away, then remember in an hour I can play one more game. I'd rather just play a game I can play as much as I'd like.

I'm not saying to reverse this update, but I am asking for them to fix it immediately with a better solution because at this point, it's basically unplayable.

i feel and understand because it hit me the exact same way. BTW 2*star storm blue power, it could potentially stun main target for 4 turns and damage all targets for 1.6k, isn't anything to scoff at if you team her with 2* thor, who can do call of the storm might do well for you also.

Unknown

killerkoala wrote:

heavydwayne wrote:

I don't post on the forums to much but I have monitored them since the game came out so that I could be a casual user and still get a good roster. I am not as hard core as a lot of the people on here are, but I just wanted to post my opinion. This update is absolutely the worst for me. To give some background on my roster, I have a lvl 105 spiderman, 85 2*Wolverine, 85 2*thor, 85 2*storm. Then I have some 3* ranging from the high 60's to the base 15. As someone who has every 2* hero and maxed covers(still working on maxing with iso on the important ones like OBW) and 2 or 3 covers on most 3*s but none that are maxed. My top 3* is spiderman who could max at 115 at the moment, my next closest is patch in the 60's.

This update basically eliminates me from winning covers in any PVP event. I used to use spiderman and wolverine and the random 3rd hero depending on tournament, the reason why i used spiderman was because he did 2 things for me, gave me decent damage on blues and purples(as well as the shields basically made me immune to tile match damage) but the bigger reason was I would save his yellow healing power to just before i won my match and healed up to almost max. Doing this gave me the option of playing another match right after so that I could play like 5 matches in a row. It wouldn't be such a big deal if i wasn't always paired with teams that have all 110+ characters. I get shredded from every match I play and the healing ability was the only thing I could do to be competitive. With this update 2 things now happen, my hero's get damaged enough in the first fight that I don't dare go into another battle because I will lose, but I can't use my other players because they are not leveled or powerful enough to defeat the enemies I'm paired against. Then If i try and play with the bad roster to gain more points, not only do I lose, people now see my bad roster and i get attacked for tons of negative points.

If I only use my top roster I can only play the game like once every 30 minutes or an hour. I don't want to play one match then put the game away, then remember in an hour I can play one more game. I'd rather just play a game I can play as much as I'd like.

I'm not saying to reverse this update, but I am asking for them to fix it immediately with a better solution because at this point, it's basically unplayable.

i feel and understand because it hit me the exact same way. BTW 2*star storm blue power, it could potentially stun main target for 4 turns and damage all targets for 1.6k, isn't anything to scoff at if you team her with 2* thor, who can do call of the storm might do well for you also.

True, but storm has such low HP and the blue power cost so much that when fighting lvl 110+ she gets knocked out before you have enough blue to use it(at least in my experience). The reason I use wolverine is because I can get 6 greens pretty quick, get a few reds and then I just boosted all match attacks, and if I get enough red I can take almost 3k off a weak opponent or maybe even down a dangerous one. When I used to be paired against the OBW and thor combos, i would immediate focus on OBW unless I was getting a ton of reds fast. One fire with the red power can basically knock her out. Also, using spidy and wolverine allowed when my wolverine was low, i could match yellow so he could heal, but since it is a spiderman attack he also absorbed damage until I could get enough yellows to heal wolverine half way and then use spiderman to heal almost completely.