True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

Twysta

reckless442 wrote:

As for the notion that this will discourage the amount that people play...

To be honest, I think this in itself is a bit baffling.
Devs... trying to discourage people from playing their game?

The change for me seems a bit negligent and speaks volumes for how out of touch with the playerbase the devs are (sorry devs, but at least according to the forum you are). This is a puzzle game after all and for a lot of their changes they seem to be ignoring player intelligence, ingenuity and resourcefulness.
I would put money on seeing an increase of the playerbase using Patch and Daken, the result of which they may begin to deem it worthy to nerf them.... and we all know how that's going to go.

For the most part it seems that the devs seem more intent on trying to fix problems caused through other mechanics rather than trying to find the root solution to the problem and fixing that instead.

Instead of fixing why people are tanking in the first place: we'll just make it so you can't tank/tanking is harder.
Instead of finding why people are using healers to play longer: we'll just remove healing
Instead of finding a remedy for people complaining about lower levels getting higher scores than people with better rosters: we'll just put lower levels and higher levels together

Unknown

saints2death wrote:

In what world is prologue healing more hurtful to game play than CMags blue exploit?

Vastly more players possess (or can obtain) a 5 Blue OBW than a 5 Blue Cmags, so.... yes it is, at least from the devs' perspective.

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

They really should pay for a good pr person to be part of thier staff. ice is mostly.just taking a position as "extra" that nobody else wants. I think SO many of thier issue could have been much prettier looking with better pr, more communications, and much more precise wording (both in game and out). Some things a pr person couldn't help too .much with, but some they could have made a world of difference.

For example, ice is .probably working on some new release with on hand, waging with his other and scrolling the forum with his toes today. That isnt good enough for a change likethis. This is a tholverine lvl change. Spidey affected maybe 5% of the playerbase? Hitting .obw, spidey, and future healers affects everybody at some point, and probably 90% of the playerbase due to obw being so.overused. CS has no idea what is going on usually in these regards either....they deal with problems, not opinions. I assume ice posted this as the devs wanted to hear some opinions but they set the topic up almost as a cryptic word find more than a brainstorm session.

They quite literally .killed off all of the good press that last change made in an inhan ystant if ppl responses are any indication. And the number of ppl.this forum.affects.is.more than you might think due to word spreading VIA alliance chat. No wrapping paper, no bow....heck, they dint even.try to explain that Manure can be used to improve soil quality. They just plopped a pile of it next to the door and said "how do you like your birthday present?" I mean...come on. Some razzle dazzle please.

Unknown

reckless442 wrote:

How are we supposed to compete in PVPs when we are required to use a single character over and over if we can't heal? Let's use the current state of the game to illustrate the problem.

Is that a serious question? Of course you're supposed to use the health pack magic.
(alternatively you can try the jimbojim tactics having multiples of characters until sandboxed.)

The whole proposal is so lame and detached from reality it is not worth even tearing apart.

Unknown

A few things:

1, I've always found it amusing how people complain about the transitions from 1* and 2* to 3* and how through their wording it seems like they think they should be leveled to where the veterans are in a third of the time. Kind of how you move out and expect to live the same lifestyle or better as your parents who took 25 years to reach. I'm not one of the first but I am on day 226.

2, I'm not a fan of being told HOW I should play a game, not that I do but if I wanted to play Prologue for however long it should be my waste of time not the company's. And yes I get that it's all about them making money yada yada yada and yes I too think it sucks.

3, What the hell is the point of keeping Prologue in the game once you beat it anyway, if not to heal? Just remove it now because next it's going to be: Patch and Lazy Daken being nerfed for using the Prologue to heal 300 some points per turn against a low level moot team when it seems like Prologue is the common denominator in this issue.

4, I admit that I have abused the use of OBW and although I currently have a stacked roster for diverse use it was her that helped me get it plain and simple. So, I kind of feel sorry for the new players who are going to take an even longer time to build their roster than what I was given without paying actual money.

5, Lastly, I am grateful for the extra Hero Points and Powered Up token in the PVP rewards along with some of the other changes made like winning covers in PVP making up for taking away the 100-200 ISO rewards for first time completion in PVE and although I don't always agree with changes that are made I have continued to play. Hopefully this doesn't ruin a really fun game.

Unknown

I did not read thru all the posts and I don't plan to. I read a few and so I probably am just uttering what many have already done and no doubt feel. Business aspect I understand. To make profit is why you're in the business. So changes will always have to be made and although complaints will be made, which may or may not be warranted, we understand and will adapt to it to the best of our ability. In other words, we complain but we'll still play. Honestly, I didn't understand why the prologue tab was there as long as it has been. So it's eventual removal, no big deal. However, players have used the strategy of healing thru those past storylines after battling in other events, which had been a major way of getting back into the fight. Take that away and yes, you will lose a great number from the userbase. So D3, how will you balance this upcoming change? What will you do to keep the masses from calling it quits? Many are already stating that they will, in the forums and within alliance chats.

A few suggestions would be cutting down, perhaps significantly, recovery time for the characters to get back to full health status. Of course, those with healing factors or powered up abilities should heal even faster, for example Wolverine and Daken. In the posted, Upcoming Feature: True Healing Discussion, no mention for Hulk, who does have a healing factor, he's the Hulk for crying out loud. Characters like Captain America because of the super soldier serum running in his blood, will have a quicker recovery time than say the Punisher, who is just human. What about Gods like Thor or Loki? Ares is listed because of his sunder ability but, really a God needs time to recover health? That's where I see a big problem. If your argument is to feature some "true" ability of the characters, then guys like Hulk, Thor, and Sentry would surely decimate most of, if not the entire roster of heroes and villians when matching up against them. Invisible Woman, Magneto and Storm would most definitely be close behind. A team of Hawkeye, Black Panther, Black Widow, Daredevil, or Falcon verses Thor, Hulk, or Sentry? No chance! Why not just remove Black Widow's and Spiderman's ability to heal altogether? Never did I read a comic or see a cartoon that featured the ability to heal as their powerset. Spiderman shoots webs and cracks jokes, as he performs acrobatic flips around you, while Black Widow will shoot her webstingers at you and will kick you in the face. That's it. No healing ability whatsoever. In fact, there really isn't much characters in the Marvel Universe that provide healing as their powers, maybe a few mutants, maybe Dr. Strange, and that's reaching. Perhaps D3 maybe you need to check with your Marvel Comics contact for better information on characters abilities.

Another suggestion is making health packs either more affordable or provide more in the purchase packs. That is your purpose in making changes right? To have the players spend more money? This is where you need to apply the "help me, help you" mentality. If you do it right, players will be willing to pay, well at least some. Or, how about making health packs more available as rewards, rather than that (1) health pack progression reward for certain events? (1) health pack? That's actually pretty pathetic. So, when will these changes take place? The assumption would be the next patch update. Many will not be looking forward to that update and will keep skipping it, if able to. Then what's next, forced updates? Final suggestion D3? Listen to the players. Now, I'm not saying not to dismiss the changes, like you would really listen to us. Listen, in the sense of acknowledging the players and the concerns and at least try to show that you understand how we feel. Just to add, I really didn't like the added edited portion, as all I got from it was that, "we're telling and dictating YOU, how to play the game".

Unknown

squirrel85 wrote:

I guess we should blame marvel for making them regenerate.

I guess if you think about it, that would have to be one hell of a tommygun to kill Wolverine.

Unknown

Screw prologue, just don't take my hotdog stand.

Unknown

reckless442 wrote:

If health packs were changed back to costing ISO, I could accept this change. But I know that's just wishful thinking. I am particularly furious that this announcement was made the day after the sale, since I used up a substantial iTunes credit, and am debating contacting iTunes, asking for a refund, and deleting MPQ for good.

For the record we had this thing discussed in full length a few weeks ago, right after Ice Q&A hinted it is in the pipeline.

And not spending real money on this wreck was the longest standing, most sensible advice from the moment it lost 'preview' in the title.

I'm especially shocked that you appear as feeder of this cheater nursery.

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition

Unknown

soenottelling wrote:

They really should pay for a good pr person to be part of thier staff. ice is mostly.just taking a position as "extra" that nobody else wants. I think SO many of thier issue could have been much prettier looking with better pr, more communications, and much more precise wording (both in game and out). Some things a pr person couldn't help too .much with, but some they could have made a world of difference.

For example, ice is .probably working on some new release with on hand, waging with his other and scrolling the forum with his toes today. That isnt good enough for a change likethis. This is a tholverine lvl change. Spidey affected maybe 5% of the playerbase? Hitting .obw, spidey, and future healers affects everybody at some point, and probably 90% of the playerbase due to obw being so.overused. CS has no idea what is going on usually in these regards either....they deal with problems, not opinions. I assume ice posted this as the devs wanted to hear some opinions but they set the topic up almost as a cryptic word find more than a brainstorm session.

They quite literally .killed off all of the good press that last change made in an inhan ystant if ppl responses are any indication. And the number of ppl.this forum.affects.is.more than you might think due to word spreading VIA alliance chat. No wrapping paper, no bow....heck, they dint even.try to explain that Manure can be used to improve soil quality. They just plopped a pile of it next to the door and said "how do you like your birthday present?" I mean...come on. Some razzle dazzle please.

At this point we've moved beyond "...at least buy me dinner?" and more into "spit for lube would be an improvement." There's really only so many ways IceIX can say "bite the pillow, we're going in dry" before you start thinking about expanding your options.

Hmm...I think I've drilled that metaphor through the mattress, so what were we talking about again? An end to healing? Right.

Twysta

soenottelling wrote:

They just plopped a pile of it next to the door and said "how do you like your birthday present?" I mean...come on. Some razzle dazzle please.

Unicorn poop is still poop.

Unknown

So in your efforts of promoting character variety, are we still having events where one of the characters is mandatory in pvp?

Are there any incentives to playing with several characters? Being able to play longer is not one of them unless you have a roster full of maxed 3*, because the moment you start using the rest of your roster people will just jump on you.

Any point in not using Patch/Lazy Daken now that both will still be pretty self-sustaining and scarier on defense?

Are you making changes to MMR so there's any point in not tanking into oblivion, now that fighting a team full of maxed characters is riskier than ever?

Are you making any changes to the point system, considering it's easier losing points than getting them, especially now that we won't be able to make prolonged pushes to even out the losses?

Are you changing health regen to reflect this change, or can I still expect to have my Hulk fully healed one day from the moment he dies?

Are you changing the limit of Health Packs that regenerate, considering 2 bad games could mean the end of your push?

Depending on how this change rolls out, this just might be the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Unknown

Vaggan wrote:

Screw prologue, just don't take my hotdog stand.

Actual question, is hot dog stand true healing or temporary healing?

....they might be nerfing hot dog stand

Spoit

Madmanami wrote:

A few things:

1, I've always found it amusing how people complain about the transitions from 1* and 2* to 3* and how through their wording it seems like they think they should be leveled to where the veterans are in a third of the time. Kind of how you move out and expect to live the same lifestyle or better as your parents who took 25 years to reach. I'm not one of the first but I am on day 226.

Half the people who have been pointing out the problems with the 2->3* progression are people who've been well past it before it became an issue

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

soenottelling wrote:

They just plopped a pile of it next to the door and said "how do you like your birthday present?" I mean...come on. Some razzle dazzle please.

Unicorn poop is still poop.

I have to ask...

What does it smell like?

Twysta

sup123 wrote:

Vaggan wrote:

Screw prologue, just don't take my hotdog stand.

Actual question, is hot dog stand true healing or temporary healing?

....they might be nerfing hot dog stand

Twysta

Bugpop wrote:

Twysta wrote:

soenottelling wrote:

They just plopped a pile of it next to the door and said "how do you like your birthday present?" I mean...come on. Some razzle dazzle please.

Unicorn poop is still poop.

I have to ask...

What does it smell like?

Skittles.

Taste the rainbow

Unknown

-dahl- wrote:

Dear IceX,

Long time listener, first time caller.

I've been reading the comments, eating my popcorn, and wanted to say a few brief things that I'm sure will resonate with others.

Before I had a maxed OBW, I played sporadically. Since then, yes, I've used her as a crutch and have had her in almost every team (both PvP and PvE) because her healing ability allowed me to play for much longer. But that is how I have been able to obtain so many covers and begin my transition from 2* to 3*. If it were not for her, I would still be stuck in the 2* phase. And these days with so many new 3* covers coming out, the time it takes to max out a 3* takes much longer. This, and the inability to continue play for prolonged periods of time, means my daily play will be reduced.

I agree with your statements about wanting players to spread out their rosters, and I see your vision as a sound goal. But the method it will take to get there seems to give an advantage to players who already have an established team of maxed 3* characters. 3* covers are obtained through winning tournaments and helped by belonging to a top alliance that has already reaped the benefits of prolonged play. At least prolonged play through healing gives players who have not yet reached this level a sense of achievement.

Many players have a core team that they play with, but this is mainly due to cover availability. 3* covers don't reach the playability of their maxed-out 2* counterparts until over level 100, and 10 covers are needed to reach that level. I've been playing since almost day 1 and I have ZERO 3* characters with more than 10 covers. My core team is OBW/Ares/Thor and I don't change it up too much because the 3* characters I do have don't help me win faster. If I HAD more 3* covers to build up to be competitive, sure I'd switch it around from time to time to make things interesting. I have a feeling all "true healing" will do is make me less competitive, which will slow down the rate of 3* covers I get and in turn make me not play as often.

Just my 2c

I agree with this. I would be happy to see more diversified teams. I would love to utilize more characters, but I am concerned about sustainable game play. If I have to repeatedly either stop or buy I'm not going to buy and the stops are going to drive me away from the game overall. I don't mind spending money on a game I enjoy. I've spent about $60 in the last few months and was glad to do it. You are a business and need to support your staff to continue to make an awesome product. But without some counter balance, better iso flow, mitigated downtime, etc. there is definite concern over being able to have sustainable play.

On other topics I will say I totally get that it's not easy to definitively stop or catch exploiters and cheaters. There are not always"magic"tools even for mods and devs, but they will also drive away solid players.

And on an unrelated sidenote tinykitty is seriously making me lol.

PuceMoose

sup123 wrote:

Vaggan wrote:

Screw prologue, just don't take my hotdog stand.

Actual question, is hot dog stand true healing or temporary healing?

....they might be nerfing hot dog stand

In an unexpected undocumented feature of the impending update, Hot Dog Stand now heals all team members, both sides, to full health (true healing!), as all six combatants stand around enjoying a food of questionable origin and share a laugh and a companionable "Watcha gonna do?" eye roll in this wacky ol' world.

Unknown

reckless442 wrote:

I've read this entire thread and one thing I haven't seen discussed in connection with the aim of "roster diversity" is how that meshes with PVPs always having a featured character. How are we supposed to compete in PVPs when we are required to use a single

That problem isn't limited to healing but yes there's a rather bizarre issue where if you somehow had every character at level 141, which you'd think ought to be an advantage, you'd have a serious disadvantage in healing because that level 141 character is guaranteed to get all his colors plus probably 2 more (he'd have tiebreaker on environmental tiles and always have any weak colors of the other two characters). It's also why regen is not as strong as people think it is, because if you do have a level 141 HT he's going to be the one taking all the beating while your Daken and Patch just sit back and chill since they'd only have 1 color they can possibly tank over a 141 HT (purple/yellow). Even without factoring in healing, it is usually quite disadvantageous to have all the damage concentrated on a person who still has significantly less HP than Thor even at level 212.