True Healing Discussion (Live 6/25)

mouser

If roster diversity is the goal, a more effective approach in my opinion would be to change PVP to where one or more characters are buffed, some retain their regular levels, and some characters receive negative buffs, or are outright banned from that PVP. Would you still use your Sentry/LDaken combo in a PVP where they get -40 levels and other characters are buffed +40 or +90?

I think a PVP system having both boosted and de-boosted characters would do more to encourage diverse rosters then crippling healing is likely to achieve.

wade66

Spoit wrote:

Madmanami wrote:

A few things:

1, I've always found it amusing how people complain about the transitions from 1* and 2* to 3* and how through their wording it seems like they think they should be leveled to where the veterans are in a third of the time. Kind of how you move out and expect to live the same lifestyle or better as your parents who took 25 years to reach. I'm not one of the first but I am on day 226.

Half the people who have been pointing out the problems with the 2->3* progression are people who've been well past it before it became an issue

That is how you know this is a bad idea, when the people not affected are bothered by it.

Twysta

scottee

In all practicality, all this really does in nerf OBW. No one uses Spidey anymore. And I guess a pre-emptive nerf of She-Hulk.

But why not just balance OBW and She-Hulk? This otherwise makes no sense.

Trying to treat another symptom instead of the problem. Yes, there needs to be more hero diversity. You know the real solution? Balance the characters. If everyone were balanced, everyone would get used. Screw everyone who complains on the forum and balance MORE often, not less. Balance every patch. People can keep up with the changes when they know it happens regularly. Balance in increments. A little damage here, and little HP there. It will actually result in people complaining less, because everyone will know that all characters get adjusted all the time. Plenty of games do this, and it eventually keeps each character in line. You'd stop seeing everyone using the same pairings. Two stars would use something other than Thor/OBW if Bullseye or Moonstone were just as powerful. You'd stop seeing CMags/Patch if you lowered his strike tiles a little bit. Everyone stops using him? Then raise them a little bit.

If you made balance changes all the time, you'd actually get less forum whiners. (If that's possible) They only complain because balance changes only come once every couple months.

Ronfar

The biggest reason that people don't use diversified rosters is that they can't. Leveling 3* characters to the point where they're viable takes a truly ridiculous amount of ISO. They need to be around level 100 to be as strong as a maxed out 2* character, and then you have even more grinding to do until they get enough ISO to reach level 141. Taking a character from their starting level to level 141 requires the ISO from several weeks of playing, and even the buff given to a Featured Character gives little incentive to invest ISO in someone who isn't the best character you have at the moment. If you have only two characters at level 141 while everyone else is at level 80 or so, there's really no point in even trying to use your underleveled 3* characters in battle. I've gotten over 200 Daily Rewards and although I have every character on my roster except for Yelena and Bag-Man, I have only four characters at level 141: Magneto (Classic), The Punisher, Spider-Man (Classic), and Patch. I couldn't use a diverse 3* team even if I wanted to, and I've been playing longer than a lot of other people have.

Unknown

No fair, go back and check, hot dog stand nerfing was my idea.

Ronfar

mouser wrote:

If roster diversity is the goal, a more effective approach in my opinion would be to change PVP to where one or more characters are buffed, some retain their regular levels, and some characters receive negative buffs, or are outright banned from that PVP. Would you still use your Sentry/LDaken combo in a PVP where they get -40 levels and other characters are buffed +40 or +90?

I think a PVP system having both boosted and de-boosted characters would do more to encourage diverse rosters then crippling healing is likely to achieve.

People are less likely to play at all when they can't use their preferred team - the PvP events restricted to Dark Avengers only saw big drops in user participation.

Deimos12

So in my understanding of the English language the word "discussion" means talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.
Ice presented an idea of true healing
We the paying customers have clearly stated that it is a bad bad terrible awful idea and have presented several other options as opposed to the one offered
So what are the chances of anything being different from what was originally presented?
Less than zero? Wonderful don't call this a tinnykitty discussion then

Twysta

I really don't understand why they can't just keep nerfing or buffing characters in little tidbits rather than one giant nerf that everyone* hates.

*by everyone I mean most of the forum community... except Phantron.

Unknown

It's theoretically a genius money-maker with regards to pvp. Players now need to buy boosts so fights are faster and so result in less damage, start earlier to achieve their same scores and so must buy more shields, or be prepared to spend lotsa Logan's loonies on health packs.

Of course I say theoretically because it's a horrible idea IMO that will result in a lot of rage-quitting and for those who decide to stick it out, much frustrated phone-throwing.

I personally resorted to prologue healing largely because regen time is ridiculous after 1* land and no one really has the patience, especially when fighting teams on par with your own in pvp. So instead of fixing that problem easily by cutting that time the devs make us suffer from that existing problem and pay (pun kind of intended) for this new issue that they've created. Really feeling the love here, Ice

Unknown

My 2 cents:

So instead of being able to play for an hour or two once a day like I like, and my schedule permits, I'm going to have to play for 15-20 minutes at a time six times per day to hope to compete in events? I really like (or want to like) this game, but my life doesn't and can't revolve around it. I love how d3 tells me when and how long I'm allowed to play. Thanks mom.

I don't have enough quality characters to play that diverse a roster because 3* covers are so hard to get and I can't even dream of getting enough ISO to level up all the heroes I do have. I've only gotten a couple three star covers over the last month from the many heroic tokens I cash in and they were literally the only two i already had maxed out. I have to focus on a few select heroes so that I can compete with the players that play waaaaaaaay more than me and/or just spend hundreds of dollars a month on this game. Now I've completely wasted all the resources I put into leveling up bow and Spidey (who is basically worse than bullseye now).

I totally agree with others constant small changes to hero powers, both to weaken and strengthen them, would be a much better way to balance the game rather than just completely nerfing the strongest character that everyone worked so hard to level up to the point of them now being useless.

I keep wanting to quite this game, and I think this is going to end up being what finally does it. I'm just not going to be able to play and compete with the way things are being set up and will eventually just lose interest if I can't place or win any 3* covers. Right when things seemed to be getting better with the new rewards system for PvP and some other fixes (which to the devs credit i really liked and appreciated and were getting me back into the game). I just wish I could get back all of the time and money I've spent/wasted on this game over the last six months. This is such a blatant pay to play game and they aren't even hardly trying to hide it at this point. Most of the "fixes" they release are all aimed at extorting more money form players. I wish I would have just saved all that up and bought an Xbox One. I feel like such a chump. Time to fire up the old 360 again. At least with console games I know that after the first $60 I don't have to spend any more money on it and the games not going to be totally respecked after a few months to ruin it.

This is my second "I'm probably going to be leaving the game" rant and hopefully my last. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice...there won't be a second time tinykitties! Not another dime to this game and probably not another minute after this new healing "fix" takes effect.

Droc76

Any online PVP where you have multiple characters will always nerf bat the flavor of the month and he/she/it will get stomped to the back of the bus. This past month is was poor spidey. Next month is the healers apparently. They say its for balancing but we all know its yet another cash grab.

Unknown

mouser wrote:

If roster diversity is the goal, a more effective approach in my opinion would be to change PVP to where one or more characters are buffed, some retain their regular levels, and some characters receive negative buffs, or are outright banned from that PVP. Would you still use your Sentry/LDaken combo in a PVP where they get -40 levels and other characters are buffed +40 or +90?

I think a PVP system having both boosted and de-boosted characters would do more to encourage diverse rosters then crippling healing is likely to achieve.

Problem is that you'd end up with a case like the how Magneto, OBW, and Spiderman (pre nerf) might as well be permanently banned in all PvE limited roster events. There should be some kind of adjustment to characters but first you got to fix all the serious balance problems. I'd imagine we'd just a world where every character that is definitely stronger than Punisher is never usable in PvP, and Punisher would start with a -40 levels which is about what he needs to make him roughly equal to say, Psylocke.

Pentagoon

I swear the short bus ran out of gas when you came up with this idea Albert Reed - do you actually play the game anymore? We've already been abused from the server and lockout issues - come on. If you're really going in this poorly announced "true healing" direction for the purpose of encouraging diversity in your rosters, show the "lesser" 3* characters some due respect and add "true healing" yellow to Ragnarok, Loki, and Doom. You guys baffle and batter me more every day, but I still play; I swear I still won't buy a health pack - ever. I know good ol' Albert says this will all "blow over in a few weeks..." like CStorm nerf, Rags nerf, HP for Heals, exorbitant Boost costs, Spidey Nerf, blah blah... but enough already with completely obliterating 3* characters. Make OBW's blue heal cost 15 or something to target a specific character you want further removed from the mix, but don't nuke an already weakened Spidey into Bagman 2.0 - he's arguably your most valuable IP in this game and you're making us hate him. We already hate the characters we don't use/level - how about starting at your weakest points and move up, rather than strongest down?????

Unknown

another d3 (diablo3) spent over a year telling people to play WW barbs like jake, until they figured out that dictating to people how they should play your game is a HUGE mistake. and since then have basically gone back and changed all kinds of random ill-conceived decisions.

why don't you make more viable support characters to promote diversity instead? or assign iso boosts (% of match iso earned) to characters that haven't been used in a pvp/pve event in a while as a soft nudge. or daily rewards for doing things like "win using 7 different characters in the hot shot pvp."

carrot vs stick. enticing vs forcing. there's a better way, and you have about 2,000 ccg/match 3 games to draw on before announcing craziness.

Unknown

Congratulations. We finally get communication, and we shoot the message and messenger for 14+ pages.
Really??? People need to decide do they want communication about the game and changes, or do they just want good news.

Whether you agree with the explanation for the change, at least one was provided, it made sense, and it wasn't the type of ninja change we loathe.

By the way,most of us actually got hooked on the game before we even knew ofobw or could heal our characters. The new paradigm seems to urge smarter game play, and less dependence on grinding and playing the same fight with the same team over and over and over. There's a lot if people getting burnt out in seasons and omnipresent events. We can't say the game needs to change, but then fight every change.

This is why we lack credibility with the developers. It's simple do we want them to "try" and improve the game or not?

Unknown

scottee wrote:

Trying to treat another symptom instead of the problem. Yes, there needs to be more hero diversity. You know the real solution? Balance the characters. If everyone were balanced, everyone would get used. Screw everyone who complains on the forum and balance MORE often, not less. Balance every patch. People can keep up with the changes when they know it happens regularly. Balance in increments. A little damage here, and little HP there. It will actually result in people complaining less, because everyone will know that all characters get adjusted all the time. Plenty of games do this, and it eventually keeps each character in line. You'd stop seeing everyone using the same pairings. Two stars would use something other than Thor/OBW if Bullseye or Moonstone were just as powerful. You'd stop seeing CMags/Patch if you lowered his strike tiles a little bit. Everyone stops using him? Then raise them a little bit.

If you made balance changes all the time, you'd actually get less forum whiners. (If that's possible) They only complain because balance changes only come once every couple months.

Believe it or not, we'd been telling them this from the beginning. There are characters in pretty much everyone's roster that are covered in virtual dust (2-star Captain America, Moonstone, Bullseye) and characters that no sensible player even bothers to keep in their roster (Yelena, Venom, Bag-Man).

There have pretty much always been characters who are right on the cusp of being relevant if they were buffed even slightly. Make Cap's yellow cheaper. Rework/remove the countdowns on Modern Hawkeye's abilities. These guys might actually see some regular action in PVP.

Ronfar wrote:

People are less likely to play at all when they can't use their preferred team - the PvP events restricted to Dark Avengers only saw big drops in user participation.

I was here when they ran the first DA tournament (and second, and I believe third). Never bothered with any of them myself.

That highlights two issues:

One, which you correctly state: people are less likely to bother playing if they can't use their preferred team.

Two, people have preferred teams because very few characters in this game are strong enough to consistently win tournaments. Why would anyone bother trying to diversify when there is a level 141 version of Thor with 8,000 health? And yet the solution to this problem is to...nerf healing into oblivion?

Roster diversity is definitely a problem, but it's not one they actually appear to be trying to solve for, long-term.

This change kills OBW's relevance but it also makes Patch & 3-star Daken (who are already way too popular) even more important and central to the game.

kensterr

Though I hardly use OBW for Prologue healing these days I still find her very useful in PVE. Nerfing her blue will definitely make it harder and have people think more about having different set of characters for PVE and PVP.

I'm also looking forward to spending less time on my tablet and more time on my PC.
http://www.gamesradar.com/10-new-rpgs-h ... nd-beyond/

Or I can try other Marvel games which are somewhat ****:
http://marvel.com/games

Oh well!

Unknown

what kind of diverse roster do they think we can run at the 2* level, there are 9 maybe usable 2* heros, even if i had them all maxed, i dont think i could do anything without the help of obws healing

can we have like 5 more 2star heros to make this viable at all?

edit: by useable i mean not bullseye or bagman(low standards)

Nemek

kensterr wrote:

Or I can try other Marvel games which are somewhat ****:
http://marvel.com/games

Whoa whoa whoa...I wasn't going to comment in this thread, but this is just going too far.

I'd recommend LEGO Marvel or Marvel Heroes to just about any Marvel fan that was even somewhat interested in the represented genres.