**** Polaris (Lorna Dane) ****

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  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2020
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    Michael1957 said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Michael1957 said:
    Well my level 243 Polaris just took out level 570 Carnage5, BRB and Thor3 without a scratch , be very afraid . ( w Okoye / Apoc)
    Was it your Polaris?  Or could you have done more or less the same with 2099 or gamora or another good third wheel paired with the two best damager boosters in the game?
    Polaris is particularly strong against tile spammers like carnage and BRB, but mostly she is good because she has a combo of frequent passive damage ticks and a good stun.  But 2099 has that exact same combo.
    I’ve used both and a 9/13 Polaris was much faster . I think it was about 10 turns doing 400K damage 
    Polaris is good.  I do not dispute that.  But when you play sabertooth with thorkoye against daken and absolutely crush the opposing team, do you say "sabertooth is awesome!  Watch out!"?  What about when you play kraven + okoye in 4* carnage PvP? Is kraven a meta beast?
    I just don't want us to lose the signal for the noise.  Polaris is good, and she is especially good against tile spammers and/or with damage boosters to proc on her frequent passive damage output.  But most of the damage in your exemplar is still coming from the real workhorses of cl10: the damage boosters.  Okoye may be old and familiar nowadays, but she is still the best for cl10 pve.  And apoc is probably the second best character.
  • JSP869
    JSP869 Posts: 820 Critical Contributor
    edited October 2020
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    Did the Devs identify Polaris' order of priority for tile creation when special tiles are matched/destroyed?

    Because I've noticed she appears to generate Protect tiles first before Strikes and Attacks. 

    This is great when you're running her with BRB for the AP generation, but if you're matching away your Strikes and/or Attacks, and if a Protect tile is part of the match, the new tiles are more likely to become Protects tiles*, which can greatly hamper your damage output.

    It seems to me that Okoye could potentially be the better third than Kitty, especially as Okoye can boost Polaris' passive damage each turn.
    The downside is that with the board filled with Protect tiles, Okoye will not generate more team-up tiles when you spam her heal.
    That said, with all the Protect tiles, and with Polaris' stunning the AI's biggest threats, Okoye may not need a lot of healing.

    * edit I am aware that Polaris creates tiles the same as those which were matched/destroyed. I am specifically concerned about the situation where the board is full, literally, of special tiles, and you're forced to match away your Strike and/or Attack tiles.
    IF your move included a Protect tile (or two), the new tiles that drop in will become Protect tiles, first, and will only be converted to Attack or Strike tiles IF there are still basic tiles left after the Protect tiles are generated.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This girl is just a beast with Kitty, especially in PvE where you can use a support that fortifies special tiles (like the Element Guns that I have Kitty equipped with). If a fortified special is matched, it still triggers Polaris' purple passive even though it wasn't destroyed (don't know if this is a bug but it sure is interesting).

    Also, when Kitty eats a tile with her passive passive it triggers Polaris' passive as well (which makes sense, since the text reads 'whenever you match or destroy...')

    I've tried Polaris with Okoye combos and it just isn't as fast as putting her with Gritty. I know that probably makes for a squishy team for those who play in SCL 9 or 10, but with all those strikes everywhere being buffed by Kitty they simply chew through everyone so fast in SCL8 that it doesn't matter. I don't have have a usable BRB either, but I'm sure he's a better option for higher SCLs.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    That looks like a bug to me because Kitty's repeater replaces tiles, instead of destroying or matching them. If not, opponent BRB or your BRB will be getting free blue and green ap every time Kitty does this.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    HoundofShadow said:
    That looks like a bug to me because Kitty's repeater replaces tiles, instead of destroying or matching them. If not, opponent BRB or your BRB will be getting free blue and green ap every time Kitty does this.
    I'm sorry, I should have clarified... if the special is the last/only enemy tile on the board, it gets destroyed and triggers Polaris.
  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,160 Chairperson of the Boards
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    JSP869 said:
    Did the Devs identify Polaris' order of priority for tile creation when special tiles are matched/destroyed?

    Because I've noticed she appears to generate Protect tiles first before Strikes and Attacks. 

    This is great when you're running her with BRB for the AP generation, but if you're matching away your Strikes and/or Attacks, and if a Protect tile is part of the match, the new tiles are more likely to become Protects tiles*, which can greatly hamper your damage output.

    * edit I am aware that Polaris creates tiles the same as those which were matched/destroyed. I am specifically concerned about the situation where the board is full, literally, of special tiles, and you're forced to match away your Strike and/or Attack tiles.
    IF your move included a Protect tile (or two), the new tiles that drop in will become Protect tiles, first, and will only be converted to Attack or Strike tiles IF there are still basic tiles left after the Protect tiles are generated.
    Yup that's what I've noticed too. Polaris seems to prioritise creating new Protects over Attacks and Strikes. I wonder if she's intentionally designed that way, so she can't multi-dip on the Strike tiles that are already present. It does make her an even better partner than she already is for Billpocalypse.
  • heybub
    heybub Posts: 287 Mover and Shaker
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    It looks like there is some differing opinions on her being overpowered.  Personally, she seems crazy OP to me  when paired with BRB or Kitty.  I mainly play PVE and struggle to get the 15k progression points, and i often cannot beat the harder nodes even a first time.  I just champed Polaris and paired her with my 350 max covered BRB - and I blew through max progression in the Hearts of Darkness.  I am also seeing my performance in PVP improve quite a bit, but I haven't finished an event yet to really understand her impact.


    Is Polar Ray Bill the new meta?  Or is she better paired with Kitty?

    I feel like BRB is the better partner as the objective is destroying the spammed protects, while destroying buffed tiles seems counter-productive.

  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    heybub said:
    It looks like there is some differing opinions on her being overpowered.
    Polaris falls under two classic arguments for not being over-powered, and they're both arguments you've heard a dozen times before...

    1) By herself she's nothing special.
    I've never put much validity to this argument since the only time we bring one is in DDQ and Lorna will be featured in that node about once every three years. 90% of MPQ's strategy happens in the character selection screen and the synergy between teammates. If you do put stock into this argument, it's mostly true. Her stun is really nice, but she's not going to win any solo awards.

    2) She's easily defeated on defense.
    This argument carries more weight with me. Since we spend 100% of our playing time on offense there's nothing more frustrating than a ubiquitous character/team in PvP that you struggle to defeat. Polaris is squishy - especially so to 5-star players. In the three teams Polaris is most deadly with (BRB, Okoye, or Gritty) once you take out Polaris the team is effectively neutered. The Okoye pairing is easier to deal with since it requires the opponent to acquire team-up AP before it starts steam-rolling you. Gritty is much more dangerous because of the cascade risk and BRB is always tough to deal with, but taking out Polaris quickly will lead to victory. (In both cases, having your own Polaris is an excellent counter.)

    I feel like BRB is the better partner (over Kitty) as the objective is destroying the spammed protects, while destroying buffed tiles seems counter-productive.
    It doesn't matter, it's a win-win for Gritty+Polaris either way. If you preserve the strikes Kitty is buffing them for enormous damage. If you do match the strikes, the screen becomes flooded and Kitty is buffing them for enormous damage and Lorna is blasting her foes (backed by the strikes) twice per turn (it's actually more effective to match them because of Polaris' double-tap). I have no BRB to argue for that pairing over Kitty, but Polaris with Gritty is hands-down the easiest, fastest, most potent combination I've ever played with in this game. I don't know if that makes Polaris overpowered, Kitty overpowered, or Rocket overpowered, but the team is certainly effective.

    In a way, Polaris is very similar to Okoye. While Okoye makes everyone else better, Polaris needs others to be truly effective - but both can really shine. By themselves they're nothing special and either are manageable when they're on defense. So is Polaris overpowered? ((shrug))
  • Speed283
    Speed283 Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
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    I finally have a decent Polaris. I’m fairly new at this. My Polaris is level 250 and 11,300. I just battled someone with an 8,500 Polaris and theirs was doing WAY more damage than mine. Is this common/supposed to be the way?
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Have you checked their build and your build? Also, are they using any character that buffs their tiles, like Kitty or Nico Minoru?
  • Speed283
    Speed283 Posts: 122 Tile Toppler
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    I’ll check for those things. Thanks!

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