***** Kingpin (Spider-Verse) *****

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  • ZootSaxZootSax Posts: 1,585 Chairperson of the Boards
    I could see Kingpin, Carnage & Kraven making an interesting villians team, but I'm not seeing as obvious of a 5* partner.  That might be more from my lack of 5* knowledge than anything else.
  • Pr0spect0rPr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    I absolutely hate how he looks. It's just a bowling ball with a face and a fist. Or Strax from doctor who
  • sambrookjmsambrookjm Posts: 1,474 Chairperson of the Boards
    If he's in the Spider-Verse, does this mean we can equip him with the Homemade Web Shooters support?  THat could be...interesting.
  • ursoproursopro Posts: 212 Tile Toppler
    If he's in the Spider-Verse, does this mean we can equip him with the Homemade Web Shooters support?  THat could be...interesting.
    He can't, the devs clarified this on Discord.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,064 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:
    I try to be optimistic when a new character is announced, looking for ways to exploit their powers, but this 5* is disappointing.  Let me explain:

    7 Blue: dealing 13,868 for 7 AP is great, but how often can you do that?  If Blue is your strongest color, that helps as you can collect all the blue that's available, but you have to give them a friendly special every time, which may not be available and technically hurts you too.  7 AP is a low cost, but it could still take 3 blue matches to get it.  If you could passively create friendly specials AND blue is your strongest color, then this works.  Supports could fix those problems. 

    11 Black: purely a defensive power which isn't that powerful.  Draining their largest pool is fine, but it's unpredictable, so it can't necessarily stop the enemy nuke from coming.  The cost is so high that you won't be firing it very often (unlike She Hulk's Furious Charge).  The match damage reduction is fine, but it doesn't stop enemy powers.  If it cost 6 Black OR if you could target the AP pool and reduce damage from enemy powers as well, it would be good, but as is, it's bad.

    9 Green: not bad, but there are many good green damage options in 5* land.  The only way this could be better is if you got tons of green and put out multiple repeaters for hard wave nodes.  Obviously, this power gives you the weak friendly specials for his Blue power, but that creates a dependency.  This power could be good if you started the match with 9 green AP from supports and played it on the 1st turn.  At least it's fortified. 

    Pairing with Kitty?: it may seem obvious since she creates specials and hurts the enemy for having them, but that's expensive being 8 Yellow to create protects and 7 Blue to hit for 13K and then wait 2 turns for Kitty to hit for 13K.  Potentially, you could quickly get more blue and do it again, but it looks slow to me.  Kitty's red power to create attack tiles is more of a backup plan when things go wrong.  It would be easier to just collect 9 green and 7 blue to run by himself.  But he needs a green/blue battery to be good.

    Pairing with Vulture?: well, Vulture makes any green & blue user better, so this may not be saying much.  The real question is: would he be better than other green & blue 5* users, being Cable, Spiderman, Archangel and Doc Ock?  If you're a 4* player and don't have those other 5* options, then he could work in 4* land at level 360.  It's not amazing, but it could work. 

    Pairing with Cardusa?: since Cardusa naturally produces lots of green and blue that may not be used well, you could give it to Kingpin.  If you focused on Blue, then he could hit again and again giving away attack tiles, which Medusa doesn't mind.  This is another 4* option that doesn't build his 5* credibility. 

    The bottom line: Kingpin is slow and difficult to use, which makes me want to put him in the bottom tier.  Being very optimistic, I could say mid-tier, but almost any 5* half-covered and half-leveled could be useful to a 4* player.  Is he useful to a new 5* player that doesn't have better options?  Since Kingpin is right after Cable, who also uses Green and Blue, I would say Cable is better, plus Cable has a useful Yellow power too.  Perhaps if the PVP required character passively made specials, like Daken or Blade, then he could be useful. 
    One pairing you forgot to mention on the 5* tier is Dare devil.  Since Dare devil at 1/2 health with spit out strike tiles.  Then KP flips them for damage, but the strike tile giving actually helps you keep DD at 1/2 health.  You can also steal the strik tile back and stun the enemy. You are competing for green but you can decide which green you want to use.   If there is a lot of green on the board then DD.  If green is sparse then KP.  I actually think from the 5* tier DD is the best pairing.
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 186 Tile Toppler
    wymtime said:
    bbigler said:
    ...  
    One pairing you forgot to mention on the 5* tier is Dare devil.  Since Dare devil at 1/2 health with spit out strike tiles.  Then KP flips them for damage, but the strike tile giving actually helps you keep DD at 1/2 health.  You can also steal the strik tile back and stun the enemy. You are competing for green but you can decide which green you want to use.   If there is a lot of green on the board then DD.  If green is sparse then KP.  I actually think from the 5* tier DD is the best pairing.

    I was tending to agree, and they do have good enough synergy on paper, but this pairing has a major drawback. It is very likely that yellow will be your teams strongest color when playing DD with Kingpin, and you'll have no way to spend it. 
    I still believe so far that Kitty may be KP's best partner, and a team of all 3 sound quite good. With yellow as strongest, that will be excellent for Kitty to place protect tiles to be buffing (not too early or DD won't be able to take damage). 

    As a solo partner for PvP when paired with random 3* characters, I think Jessica Jones will do well. With red as the strongest color, you'll have continuous strike tiles to hand over. Hopefully enough that you can choose one that is quickly matchable. You'll definitely be using Jessica's black over KP's here. The only drawbacks I see are, 1. the need to spend blue instead of keeping it on hand to reveal her trap locations. 2. no yellow or purple outlet

    So, could we pair KP with Phoenix?  Sounds decent initially. Similarly, her red creates plenty of strike tiles. What I like about the team strongest color here is it's green if Jean is leveled enough over KP. Hopefully this will add up enough to get his green repeater rolling x2. With Jean's board shake from purple, you may get more black matches available for his expensive black. No yellow user here, but all abilities are reasonably prices besides black. 

    Otherwise i think there's good potential for working with specific boosted 4* characters that produce special tiles easily (as others have stated). 
    Initial rating is lower mid-tier, but I think that depends greatly upon the individual players roster. Developed 5* players may not see enough ways to get KP used too often.   
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,064 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    wymtime said:
    bbigler said:
    ...  
    One pairing you forgot to mention on the 5* tier is Dare devil.  Since Dare devil at 1/2 health with spit out strike tiles.  Then KP flips them for damage, but the strike tile giving actually helps you keep DD at 1/2 health.  You can also steal the strik tile back and stun the enemy. You are competing for green but you can decide which green you want to use.   If there is a lot of green on the board then DD.  If green is sparse then KP.  I actually think from the 5* tier DD is the best pairing.

    I was tending to agree, and they do have good enough synergy on paper, but this pairing has a major drawback. It is very likely that yellow will be your teams strongest color when playing DD with Kingpin, and you'll have no way to spend it. 
    I still believe so far that Kitty may be KP's best partner, and a team of all 3 sound quite good. With yellow as strongest, that will be excellent for Kitty to place protect tiles to be buffing (not too early or DD won't be able to take damage). 

    As a solo partner for PvP when paired with random 3* characters, I think Jessica Jones will do well. With red as the strongest color, you'll have continuous strike tiles to hand over. Hopefully enough that you can choose one that is quickly matchable. You'll definitely be using Jessica's black over KP's here. The only drawbacks I see are, 1. the need to spend blue instead of keeping it on hand to reveal her trap locations. 2. no yellow or purple outlet

    So, could we pair KP with Phoenix?  Sounds decent initially. Similarly, her red creates plenty of strike tiles. What I like about the team strongest color here is it's green if Jean is leveled enough over KP. Hopefully this will add up enough to get his green repeater rolling x2. With Jean's board shake from purple, you may get more black matches available for his expensive black. No yellow user here, but all abilities are reasonably prices besides black. 

    Otherwise i think there's good potential for working with specific boosted 4* characters that produce special tiles easily (as others have stated). 
    Initial rating is lower mid-tier, but I think that depends greatly upon the individual players roster. Developed 5* players may not see enough ways to get KP used too often.   
    I forgot about JJ as a partner I can defiantly see that as a good team too.
  • ThanosThanos Posts: 568 Critical Contributor
    RickOShay said:

    I was tending to agree, and they do have good enough synergy on paper, but this pairing has a major drawback. It is very likely that yellow will be your teams strongest color when playing DD with Kingpin, and you'll have no way to spend it. 
    I still believe so far that Kitty may be KP's best partner, and a team of all 3 sound quite good. With yellow as strongest, that will be excellent for Kitty to place protect tiles to be buffing (not too early or DD won't be able to take damage). 

    As a solo partner for PvP when paired with random 3* characters, I think Jessica Jones will do well. With red as the strongest color, you'll have continuous strike tiles to hand over. Hopefully enough that you can choose one that is quickly matchable. You'll definitely be using Jessica's black over KP's here. The only drawbacks I see are, 1. the need to spend blue instead of keeping it on hand to reveal her trap locations. 2. no yellow or purple outlet

    So, could we pair KP with Phoenix?  Sounds decent initially. Similarly, her red creates plenty of strike tiles. What I like about the team strongest color here is it's green if Jean is leveled enough over KP. Hopefully this will add up enough to get his green repeater rolling x2. With Jean's board shake from purple, you may get more black matches available for his expensive black. No yellow user here, but all abilities are reasonably prices besides black. 

    Otherwise i think there's good potential for working with specific boosted 4* characters that produce special tiles easily (as others have stated). 
    Initial rating is lower mid-tier, but I think that depends greatly upon the individual players roster. Developed 5* players may not see enough ways to get KP used too often.   
    Kingpin has very high match damage, close to Okoye's in fact. At level 450 Kingpins blue is 713 as compared to DD''s which is right around 660. In fact, my DD is lvl 458 and has a yellow match damage of only 704, still lower than KP's. A team of KP/ bishop / carnage could be good for laughs.
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 242 Tile Toppler
    Instead of strongest color or highest AP pool, it would be so much better if we got to choose which color to steal/destroy.  Kingpin is supposed to be a master strategist after all...
    I thought the same thing. Forced Hand could be something like this:

    Choose a friendly Strike, Attack or Protect tile to give to the enemy team, or choose a  basic tile and converts it to a strength 371 enemy Strike tile. In return, take up to 5 AP of the chosen tile's color from the enemy. If the enemy has less than 5 AP in that color, take all of it and deal 13868 damage. 

    This way, you have more control on what AP you want to steal. It also works without the friendly special tile condition, so he becomes less dependent, but with other characters you have an option to give an Attack or Protect tile or a weaker Strike tile to the enemy. 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 2,750 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2018
     The verbiage "take all of it" is pretty redundant with "up to 5," does that mean he takes all their AP in all colors @Brigby , or is it all of the one color?

    When I first saw the name "Forced Hand," I was hoping it would be the kind of power that would force the opponent to use one of their abilities in some useless way, basically make them burn the AP they would spend on a power, but without the benefit of the power. Kind of a reverse-Mockingbird. In my mind that sounds like a neat variation on highest pool or strongest color, but in practice I wonder if it would just be like She-Hulk's green?

  • Waddles_PinesWaddles_Pines Posts: 639 Critical Contributor
    himatako said:
    Instead of strongest color or highest AP pool, it would be so much better if we got to choose which color to steal/destroy.  Kingpin is supposed to be a master strategist after all...
    I thought the same thing. Forced Hand could be something like this:

    Choose a friendly Strike, Attack or Protect tile to give to the enemy team, or choose a  basic tile and converts it to a strength 371 enemy Strike tile. In return, take up to 5 AP of the chosen tile's color from the enemy. If the enemy has less than 5 AP in that color, take all of it and deal 13868 damage. 

    This way, you have more control on what AP you want to steal. It also works without the friendly special tile condition, so he becomes less dependent, but with other characters you have an option to give an Attack or Protect tile or a weaker Strike tile to the enemy. 
    Exactly.  I want to steal AP in a pool that'll help prevent me from getting nuked.  There are characters where their strongest AP is not needed for them to fire a power or is not the color of their strongest power.  Highest AP pool only works with powers like Mordo's where you damage them per AP in that pool.  
  • Ex_XMan_ManEx_XMan_Man Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    If I didn't know any better, I would have thought this was The Blob in a spiffier costume from the design chosen for this iteration of Kingpin.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 2,750 Chairperson of the Boards
    I love how goofy the art is; i want to run him with 5* Octopus immediately. 
  • BrigbyBrigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,349 Site Admin
     The verbiage "take all of it" is pretty redundant with "up to 5," does that mean he takes all their AP in all colors Brigby , or is it all of the one color?

    When I first saw the name "Forced Hand," I was hoping it would be the kind of power that would force the opponent to use one of their abilities in some useless way, basically make them burn the AP they would spend on a power, but without the benefit of the power. Kind of a reverse-Mockingbird. In my mind that sounds like a neat variation on highest pool or strongest color, but in practice I wonder if it would just be like She-Hulk's green?

    It's all of that one color. So for example, if your strongest color is Blue, and your opponent has 4 Blue AP, then it would only drop their Blue AP down to 0. No other enemy color AP is affected.
  • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,338 Chairperson of the Boards
    babinro said:
    ... As is the cost is so high that I really don't think you can make strong use of the skill outside of survival nodes since the CD tile will carry over from wave to wave....

    Unless it doesn't. Vision's don't, as I recall.
  • PhumadePhumade Posts: 1,873 Chairperson of the Boards
    5* Kingpin's ingame art looks great.  He's probably the best looking character since Kraven or Peggy Carter.  I know its the design from the movie,  but I like how you've kept the oversize art.  

    by comparison.  Kitty coming through a wall just looks a bit goofy.  I like that Kitty looks age appropriate, but 5* Kingpin just looks so much better.

    Hopefully our steam brothers have no issues with the graphics obscuring tiles.
  • bbiglerbbigler Posts: 1,400 Chairperson of the Boards
    5/3/5
    I actually don't like Kingpins artwork, he looks like a cartoon with either a giant body or a shrunken head. It just doesn't fit with the other characters, IMO. 
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