The ‘lucky’ Greg

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  • DBJones
    DBJones Posts: 803 Critical Contributor
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    I feel like the new AI is a bit too good, especially in lower tiers with less experienced players.
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2018
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    I don't know what you guys are talking about. Aside from the match-5s, of which I have still witnessed him miss a few, Greg seems as eager to take a whooping as ever.
  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
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    octal9 said:
    Good article on this by Steve Fawkner:

    https://gemsofwar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210140183-Does-the-AI-Cheat-
    You mean the same Steve currently involved with mtgpq? ;)
  • Rasalghul
    Rasalghul Posts: 158 Tile Toppler
    edited February 2018
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    Maybe Greg don't know what gems will fall but I've noticed that his card draws are very favorable and mine are, a lot of times unfavorable.

    I've played Angel's Embrace with my Chandra 1 deck today. I mostly use it for less than x damages objectives and it works well most of the times. 
    At the beginning of AE, I've lost 4 straight games because the AI "refused" to give me my creatures. It kept giving me my 4 spells and 2 supports while Greg is cascading and deploying gazillion creatures. 

    And this "lucky" behavior is the same I observe in Training Ground when you battle for the 4th win in platinum.

    I'm just giving my observation not criticizing, and maybe expressing frustration, please don't shoot me !

    And the current OoG II is crazy hard... for a duplicate
  • babar3355
    babar3355 Posts: 1,128 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2018
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    Greg has certainly improved.  I welcome my new challenger who actually provided an occasionally challenge. Can we pick a new name? Perhaps Gary?
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
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    Thuran said:
    octal9 said:
    Good article on this by Steve Fawkner:

    https://gemsofwar.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210140183-Does-the-AI-Cheat-
    You mean the same Steve currently involved with mtgpq? ;)
    Let's just say I may have known what I was doing when I doubled-down on trying to find this article ;)
  • Thuran
    Thuran Posts: 456 Mover and Shaker
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    babar3355 said:
    Greg has certainly improved.  I welcome my new challenger who actually provided an occasionally challenge. Can we pick a new name? Perhaps Gary?
    No we can't :) Kibler wouldn't change his name if he got pro at magic again ;)
  • Gideon
    Gideon Posts: 340 Mover and Shaker
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    It’s a scooner you idiots!
  • Gideon
    Gideon Posts: 340 Mover and Shaker
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    It’s a schooner!
  • Sirchombli
    Sirchombli Posts: 322 Mover and Shaker
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    Do you want smart Greg, or dumb Greg? Ideal Greg is not an option. 
  • Coilbox
    Coilbox Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
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    I want smart Greg indeed. But as i said, a Greg favored by the chance of getting better gem combinations, better cascades and better card draws... is not a smart Greg, is just a cheating AI.
  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
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    Dropspot said:
    This game is ridiculously easy. It's so easy that it's even not challenging enough to keep me interested in playing it. Having a better AI is the minimum they can do to improve this game. I barely remember the last time I lost a match. And considering the incredible number of perfect ties I can assure this happens far more often than a balanced game should look. 

    Some time ago I started playing another game and I lose far more often. I barely can make it to 50% win rate. And I can assure you I prefer the challenge over this 99% win rate.

    Difficulty makes wins more rewarding and would also solve the ties problems.
    What Color Mastery are you in? trust me, in Platinum you will lose games. Too many mythics and Masterpieces. It is unavoidable (at least until some Re-tooling of OP cards happens). Certainly the AI is a noob (even after the recent upgrade), but that doesn't matter once they cast Omni.
    What really makes this game challenging is the secondary objectives, having to build decks to achieve specific things, then running into decks that seem designed to derail your carefully laid plans.
  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
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    ZW2007- said:
    I think the biggest issue here is that Greg has been unrestrained and is using his full capabilities of being a computer against us once again. The problem isn't that Greg knows what gems will be generated and fall into place, the problem is that he can make the optimal match every single time. Even the best player will miss the perfect match every now and then (Especially during events with supercharge or enrage when the bloody effects make it difficult to see gems on the outsides of the board.) This makes it seem like Greg gets lucky moves when in reality he is able to comprehend where every single gem that he can see will fall into place on the gem board and is also able to predict where the highest probability for an incoming cascade might happen even if he doesn't know what is falling from above. When you can make the perfect move every single time, you are going to get a lot of cascades.

    That said, I have no way of knowing if he is programmed to make the optimal move every time or if he's just playing better than he used to and getting a little luckier. I have no doubts about what octal9 posted being true but here comes the tinfoil hat anyway; sometimes I have doubts that there isn't some kind of rubber band effect hidden elsewhere in the code that does generate large mana gains outside of the RNG gem creation. I'm sure that conspiracy theory will completely invalidate the rest of my post but whatever. Keep in mind, I don't think the rubber band effect is one sided if it does in fact exist. 


    I have to disagree. I have a bit of number OCD, and I can see that the AI does not make the optimal match every time. The main difference I have seen is the consistent match 5. But, I have seen the AI pass up a match 5 for matching 2 simultaneous colors which does not lead to a cascade. thats not better. I think we should guard against getting carried away with how good the AI is. It is better. But it is not Omniscient (mtgpq pun there sorry :neutral:)
  • ArielSira
    ArielSira Posts: 490 Mover and Shaker
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    Completely agree with your last 2 posts Krishna
  • Machine
    Machine Posts: 789 Critical Contributor
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    The difference between the Greg before and Greg now is too big. It seems they are on the opposite ends of the same spectrum. I lost two matches in which I had full control on the board, until Greg "luckily" cascades his entire hand, wiping my board and my supports. There is no fun in that. It's just plain frustration. A game should be about fun. I don't care that he makes match 5s now. Players will do the same. But there is a huge difference is being able to make match 5s and losing your entire board without being able to do anything about it just because the AI gets to do all that in a single turn which will take the average player 5-6 turns. One can't recover from such big decrepancy.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
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    The first time I came to this site, almost a year ago, was to complain about the cheating AI. The AI then wasn’t nearly as smart as the current one, but seemed to be way too “lucky “.

    But if you take the time to look carefully every move you will usually find moves you missed.  The new AI doesn’t miss the 5s and obvious cascades like it used to, but it doesn’t always make the best move either.  With careful play you can still out match it.
  • Krishna
    Krishna Posts: 205 Tile Toppler
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    Gilesclone said:
    The first time I came to this site, almost a year ago, was to complain about the cheating AI. The AI then wasn’t nearly as smart as the current one, but seemed to be way too “lucky “.

    But if you take the time to look carefully every move you will usually find moves you missed.  The new AI doesn’t miss the 5s and obvious cascades like it used to, but it doesn’t always make the best move either.  With careful play you can still out match it.
    There was definitely a dumbing down of the AI a couple months back, which surprisingly hasn't come up yet lol. It's probably a little better now than before that AI nerf. I miss the days when the the AI or Greg was 'The Computer' or CPU.

  • hawkyh1
    hawkyh1 Posts: 780 Critical Contributor
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    there should be a study on ai mana gains versus players.
    mana bonus's and gem converters should be included to
    give a better idea what is happening.

    HH

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