The ‘lucky’ Greg

ElfNeedsFood

We finally have an HoD without more than 50 perfect scores!  I think this is a desired outcome in Platinum.  Greg still doesn't know how to sort his hand to put the deserts and gem changing (i.e. mana ramp) spells a higher priority than creatures...  If he gets a couple of simple rules like that, watch out forums!

Gilesclone

I’ve already heard complaints from some players I thought would know better.  I expect lots of whining in the next week or two.

Kinesia

There are huge discussions going on about this with people who don't read the forums. Have tried to point them this way though... (Shelters self against stampede.)

bk1234

Greg is not more lucky, but he is definitely more intelligent. The response from my coalition is overwhelmingly positive. Though no one likes losing points or battles -- the new challenge is really making us step up our game. Ironically, I'm seeing 98% + cycling players struggling through events -- gone are the days when wins could be swiped away -- we must once again put careful thought into our decks and strategies or smarter Greg will get the best of us. 

Well done Oktagon. 

gogol666

bken1234 said:

Greg is not more lucky, but he is definitely more intelligent. The response from my coalition is overwhelmingly positive. Though no one likes losing points or battles -- the new challenge is really making us step up our game. Ironically, I'm seeing 98% + cycling players struggling through events -- gone are the days when wins could be swiped away -- we must once again put careful thought into our decks and strategies or smarter Greg will get the best of us. 

Well done Oktagon. 

I feel quite the opposite about cycling: we have been given a better opponent that can usually cast something relevant for the board in the first few turns and we have an event that requires you to not take damage and to lose few creatures. To me the safest play for the lower left node is still cycling. The other two nodes are better but cycling means free card filtering and it is difficult not to have that as the dominant strategy in the meta.
All that said I'm happy about Greg's awakening and the subsequent higher difficulty of the events. Also, I hope octagon has plans for balancing cycling to the current and next sets power level, which I think is interesting (difficult to play with in the current meta, but not too much overcosted or underpowered per se)

Phillmoore

I agree with initial comments. TG always straight forward and fairly easy wins.   Events. Hardest opponents ever and no mana matches for me.

   I’ve stopped using Koth in events as I rarely see red matches and have had to use dual colour PWs or even Bolas to get the odds more in my favour.   Sucks 

Coilbox

Phillmoore said:

I agree with initial comments. TG always straight forward and fairly easy wins.   Events. Hardest opponents ever and no mana matches for me.

   I’ve stopped using Koth in events as I rarely see red matches and have had to use dual colour PWs or even Bolas to get the odds more in my favour.   Sucks 

THAT is what i mean. Im not crying or whinning or complaining about having a smarter oponent or a more difficult challenge as long as it doesnt involve tweaking the AI to just leave you with no good matches, THAT IS NOT FAIR PLAY.

I did stop using Koth too, cause its just ridiculous... the difference when you play with him and when you play against him is just... beyond noticeable.

Stormbringer0

A good AI is fine, but not getting the cards you need while the opponent has literally an answer to any card you cast is plain unfair. I didn't lose matches because Greg is op, i lose matches becauce I draw the wrong cards at the wrong time - even with cycling and card draw.

Kresgwyr

Stormbringer0 said:

A good AI is fine, but not getting the cards you need while the opponent has literally an answer to any card you cast is plain unfair. I didn't lose matches because Greg is op, i lose matches becauce I draw the wrong cards at the wrong time - even with cycling and card draw.

This. A hundred times this.

I'm completely ok with a better, more challenging AI. But over the last few days, the losses I got where mostly due to not getting my cards while Greg had answers for everything.

I didn't changed my decks, they worked perfectly fine before.

After some time, I even went back to a cycling deck (which I hate), and in like 3 games in a row, Greg just disrupted my plan with a combo "perfect cascade + 3-4 anti-support cast" in the same round. 

FindingHeart8

Kresgwyr said:

Stormbringer0 said:

A good AI is fine, but not getting the cards you need while the opponent has literally an answer to any card you cast is plain unfair. I didn't lose matches because Greg is op, i lose matches becauce I draw the wrong cards at the wrong time - even with cycling and card draw.

This. A hundred times this.

I'm completely ok with a better, more challenging AI. But over the last few days, the losses I got where mostly due to not getting my cards while Greg had answers for everything.

I didn't changed my decks, they worked perfectly fine before.

After some time, I even went back to a cycling deck (which I hate), and in like 3 games in a row, Greg just disrupted my plan with a combo "perfect cascade + 3-4 anti-support cast" in the same round. 

I've noticed this as well.  In the past 30+ matches in my decks that have HuF, I'm yet to draw it once...which considering it's only a 10 card deck, you draw 3 at every game start, and it takes at least on average 7-10 turns to beat an opponent with no tricks, you'd think maybe once I would draw it.  But nope, had to play everything the long way.

I'm sure some of it is just my miraculously-consistent horrible luck, but I can't help but wonder if (like there's uneven weight in card pulls from packs) if certain cards are weighted more or less likely to be drawn than others.

Coilbox

FindingHeart8 said:

Kresgwyr said:

Stormbringer0 said:

A good AI is fine, but not getting the cards you need while the opponent has literally an answer to any card you cast is plain unfair. I didn't lose matches because Greg is op, i lose matches becauce I draw the wrong cards at the wrong time - even with cycling and card draw.

This. A hundred times this.

I'm completely ok with a better, more challenging AI. But over the last few days, the losses I got where mostly due to not getting my cards while Greg had answers for everything.

I didn't changed my decks, they worked perfectly fine before.

After some time, I even went back to a cycling deck (which I hate), and in like 3 games in a row, Greg just disrupted my plan with a combo "perfect cascade + 3-4 anti-support cast" in the same round. 

I've noticed this as well.  In the past 30+ matches in my decks that have HuF, I'm yet to draw it once...which considering it's only a 10 card deck, you draw 3 at every game start, and it takes at least on average 7-10 turns to beat an opponent with no tricks, you'd think maybe once I would draw it.  But nope, had to play everything the long way.

I'm sure some of it is just my miraculously-consistent horrible luck, but I can't help but wonder if (like there's uneven weight in card pulls from packs) if certain cards are weighted more or less likely to be drawn than others.

Same happens with Deploy...

Many matches only drawing Monolyths and gem changers one turn, and another, and another...

Im gonna beat Greg by gaining mana...

Tyrannicide

Short of having one of the loop decks, the AI is just stupid difficult for no reason. It's annoying enough I'm tempted to give it up for a while.

hawkyh1

in one game I drew 16 cards. all from the same 5 cards.
I had a 4 of a kind, at least 2x 3 of a kind and a single
copy of one card(from memory). it's the extreme nature
of the card draws + gregs mana count that gets me.
there is nothing right about match 5 traps all event(not
every battle though, maybe every few battles). I do have
bias memory, but then how many board generated match
5 traps against the player are deemed acceptable? you
can see why players cycle, so that they can cycle away
15 cards to get a card that helps them in the current
situation.
I like the smarter greg.

HH

Krishna

ElfNeedsFood said:

We finally have an HoD without more than 50 perfect scores!  I think this is a desired outcome in Platinum.  Greg still doesn't know how to sort his hand to put the deserts and gem changing (i.e. mana ramp) spells a higher priority than creatures...  If he gets a couple of simple rules like that, watch out forums!

this happened as soon as they outlawed Smurfing tbh. and I couldnt be happier.
And I completely agree about hand order. When the AI casts Rishkars Ex FIRST, and then casts Emrakul and Skysoveirgn, then we can talk about a smart AI.
And to those who think Greg is a gem matching mastermind, my opponent just passed up a colored 4 match for loyalty gems. twice.

FindingHeart8

Krishna said:

ElfNeedsFood said:

We finally have an HoD without more than 50 perfect scores!  I think this is a desired outcome in Platinum.  Greg still doesn't know how to sort his hand to put the deserts and gem changing (i.e. mana ramp) spells a higher priority than creatures...  If he gets a couple of simple rules like that, watch out forums!

this happened as soon as they outlawed Smurfing tbh. and I couldnt be happier.
And I completely agree about hand order. When the AI casts Rishkars Ex FIRST, and then casts Emrakul and Skysoveirgn, then we can talk about a smart AI.
And to those who think Greg is a gem matching mastermind, my opponent just passed up a colored 4 match for loyalty gems. twice.

**puts ale down on table and raises hand**

I volunteer to fight Krishna's goblin-piloted AI.  He can take the AI controlling all my opponents, whom I'm beginning to picture as Memnarch on energy drinks.

Coilbox

Krishna said:

ElfNeedsFood said:

We finally have an HoD without more than 50 perfect scores!  I think this is a desired outcome in Platinum.  Greg still doesn't know how to sort his hand to put the deserts and gem changing (i.e. mana ramp) spells a higher priority than creatures...  If he gets a couple of simple rules like that, watch out forums!

this happened as soon as they outlawed Smurfing tbh. and I couldnt be happier.
And I completely agree about hand order. When the AI casts Rishkars Ex FIRST, and then casts Emrakul and Skysoveirgn, then we can talk about a smart AI.
And to those who think Greg is a gem matching mastermind, my opponent just passed up a colored 4 match for loyalty gems. twice.

Considering Greg a matching mastermind... would be like giving it some sort of human superpower. Superpowers dont exist, and Greg is not human. It's just an algorythm, it chooses A or B option deppending on numbers given by the table situation and the cards in hand.
The table is another algorythm that 'in theory' keeps filling the gaps created after matching gems with more gems 'randomly'.
Then you have the card drawing, which is another algorythm that gives you cards from your deck every turn, again in theory 'randomly'.

I think i've seen enough in the last few days to firmly believe that:

1. The gems that the table creates for you and the AI every turn is 'slightly' tweaked to give your opponent an advantage. And this is more than noticeable when you compare Training grounds with any other events (specially in PVP events).
2. The cards you draw every turn are weighted somehow to make you draw the 'key' cards from your deck less likely.

Again, and this will be the last time i say it, a better AI is more than welcome. That would just make the events first positions more even, and not having 50 guys in first place with perfect scores.
A better AI is that one which matches 5 gems, that one that plays some cards before others to get the best benefit out of them, etc.
But programming this must be something really difficult because 'Magic' has many complicated mechanics involved.

In my opinion, what I said in the points 1 and 2 is just cheating. And im not investing any money in something like this anymore.

ElfNeedsFood

this happened as soon as they outlawed Smurfing tbh. and I couldnt be happier.

They outlawed smurfing in Platinum?  

Kinesia

The one problem with card draw is that we are _told_ a 40 card deck is made of 4 of each card. (this is later added to as more "decks" are created), but multiple people have said they have sometimes drawn 5 of the same card _without_ playing anything that would create a new deck.

So there is something in that structure that we aren't being told about.

Rhasget

Kinesia said:

The one problem with card draw is that we are _told_ a 40 card deck is made of 4 of each card. (this is later added to as more "decks" are created), but multiple people have said they have sometimes drawn 5 of the same card _without_ playing anything that would create a new deck.

So there is something in that structure that we aren't being told about.

Unless card draw mechanics alter this, it's pretty evident when cycling that you do do not draw four of each until you reach 40 cards.
Some tests I made when I was annoyed with the draws RNG resulted in, at highest noted, drawing 62 cards before having drawn atleast one of each card in my deck.

And also that cards where drawn in 'batches'. Meaning that if I drew Shefet, Flood, Lay Claim, NP and DH as my five first cards. I would draw multiple copies of these more often as my next twenty draws and then it shifted towards the next 'batch'.
This is from a couple of months back and my test were a bit random and I noted only some bits.

octal9

Coilbox said:

I think i've seen enough in the last few days to firmly believe that:

1. The gems that the table creates for you and the AI every turn is 'slightly' tweaked to give your opponent an advantage.

lol

wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong.