Well, you see it as a major issue that needs addressing right now. Speaking for myself, I see it as... actually I've gotten quite used to it and would probably be annoyed if they went back to the old system. The vaulting system allows me to cover 4*s within a fairly short period of time, as opposed to an ever-extending length of time. Bonus heroes is good for leveling 4* and 3* that are vaulted. You can focus on one, or spread it around for those characters who you want to level. Newer players are almost certainly reaping more benefits than detractions from the current system as well. Bear in mind that there are a vast number of players who don't use the forums, and we don't know how they feel about this either.
I dunno what they're going to do about the 5* dilution - that's a real problem, I think, that Bonus Heroes does little to solve. But vaulting the 4* makes it much easier for newer players to actually cover 3* and 4* characters, rather than sit around in this purgatory of an ever-increasing pool of characters. BH can be used to finish those characters that you've almost gotten.
Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue?
GrimSkald said: I dunno what they're going to do about the 5* dilution - that's a real problem, I think, that Bonus Heroes does little to solve. But vaulting the 4* makes it much easier for newer players to actually cover 3* and 4* characters, rather than sit around in this purgatory of an ever-increasing pool of characters. BH can be used to finish those characters that you've almost gotten.
Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? Even a "we are still looking at possible solutions that will work given available dev resources" is better than what we have gotten. and to be clear, what we have gotten is vintage heroic tokens in the offseason and a vague statement months ago that they were evaluating the vaulting changes. Is this still a live issue for demi? Because it is definitely a live issue for us players.
Fightmastermpq said: Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? What exactly is the issue?
I was getting close to max covering a bunch of 4* when vaulting became a thing. Here's some of my 4* roster:
fully covered: Gwenpool, Blade, Hulkbuster IM, Red Hulk, Nova. Iron Fist
12 covers: Blade
11 covers: Medusa, Spider-woman, Thor, Peggy, Agent Venom
10 covers: Cyclops, Elektra, Coulson
9 covers: Thing, Jean Grey
A whole bunch at 6,7,8 covers.
Obviously, those that are vaulted will take forever to champ, and those that are current will be champed in the next month or 2.
Vhailorx said: Fightmastermpq said: Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? What exactly is the issue? C'mon fight, we all know you like the vaulting+bh change, but YOU know that lots of people disagree with your position. Contribute something to the conversation or move along. . .Lets say you are a new-ish player who started playing mpq in january of this year. How, exactly, are you supposed to cover and champ a 4* like iceman?The game doesn't treat vintage 4*s any differently than current 12 4*s when it comes to featured/boosted characrer rotations. But covering characters from the 2 different categories is like playing two completely different games. Doesn't that seem like a potential problem for the long term health of the game?Grimskald: i am surprised by your opinion. It seems rather myopic to assume that the only possible solutions to vaulting involve going back to the old system. . .
That's a fair response - but most solutions proposed involve either a) a huge uptick in the availability of 4* characters or b) a code project that is probably a major (and expensive) undertaking.
The current system allows players to cover new characters much more quickly, while still gives a chance to pull the old ones (through placement, progression, and bonus heroes.) Now I know full well I'm not a typical player, but since the system was implemented I've drawn 91 3* and 36 4* from my bonus heroes. That's... not bad, actually, that could fully cover 2-3 4* characters from scratch if I focused on one at a time. Sure, random chance can make it a bear to cover a character from nothing, but it's still distinctly possible - I suspect your chances of fully covering a character within 13 covers are better than 50/50. Can one of the random number crunchers give us a quote on that?
I guess what I'm saying is that things aren't as bad as they look, and I suspect a lot of people have come around to the current system.
GrimSkald said: Vhailorx said: Fightmastermpq said: Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? What exactly is the issue? C'mon fight, we all know you like the vaulting+bh change, but YOU know that lots of people disagree with your position. Contribute something to the conversation or move along. . .Lets say you are a new-ish player who started playing mpq in january of this year. How, exactly, are you supposed to cover and champ a 4* like iceman?The game doesn't treat vintage 4*s any differently than current 12 4*s when it comes to featured/boosted characrer rotations. But covering characters from the 2 different categories is like playing two completely different games. Doesn't that seem like a potential problem for the long term health of the game?Grimskald: i am surprised by your opinion. It seems rather myopic to assume that the only possible solutions to vaulting involve going back to the old system. . . That's a fair response - but most solutions proposed involve either a) a huge uptick in the availability of 4* characters or b) a code project that is probably a major (and expensive) undertaking. The current system allows players to cover new characters much more quickly, while still gives a chance to pull the old ones (through placement, progression, and bonus heroes.) Now I know full well I'm not a typical player, but since the system was implemented I've drawn 91 3* and 36 4* from my bonus heroes. That's... not bad, actually, that could fully cover 2-3 4* characters from scratch if I focused on one at a time. Sure, random chance can make it a bear to cover a character from nothing, but it's still distinctly possible - I suspect your chances of fully covering a character within 13 covers are better than 50/50. Can one of the random number crunchers give us a quote on that?I guess what I'm saying is that things aren't as bad as they look, and I suspect a lot of people have come around to the current system.
broll said: once 5* dilution starts becoming a real problem which will probably be in the next 6-12 months)
Vhailorx said: Fightmastermpq said: Vhailorx said: Can we get a redname comment on the issue? What exactly is the issue? C'mon fight, we all know you like the vaulting+bh change, but YOU know that lots of people disagree with your position. Contribute something to the conversation or move along. . .
Jarvind said: I've "gotten used" to vaulting too, but that doesn't mean it sucks any less for people with developed 4* rosters who want them to continue to grow in power. Yes, you can cover new characters much faster, but the older ones invariably go stagnant - they don't come up as progression rewards nearly often enough to see any appreciable increase in strength.I got Peggy from freshly-champed all the way to 294 before she got vaulted. Guess where she is now? 294.I'm out here fighting 320+ Blades on the regular, meanwhile since vaulting my Red Hulk has gone from 311 allllllll the way to...313.And if you're just breaking into 4* territory now? Good luck ever getting them covered in the first place.Bonus Heroes are not a solution. You don't get enough of them to realistically cover more than one or two characters in any reasonable amount of time. They are exactly what their name implies: a bonus. A little extra on top. Not a full-blown separate loot table to be counted on. Just ask the legions of people who have yet to ever see a single bonus 5* pull. I've gotten exactly one, and I count that as lucky.I'll repeat myself because it bears repeating: just because people get accustomed to something doesn't mean it stopped sucking.
Milk Jugz said: broll said: once 5* dilution starts becoming a real problem which will probably be in the next 6-12 months) I'd say it already is a problem now!! Good luck covering a 5* in the classic vault!!
broll said: How is making a seperate CP store for older 4*s and making the vintage heroes token/HP store a jump in 4* availablity or a huge coding project? Those are the suggestions I see the most. Sure there are some crazy ideas like let me chose 6 of the 12 that would be a ton of work but those are not the majority.
That's a pretty good idea, but they've been fairly reluctant to add options to existing stores - I'm not 100% sure why as it seems like a good solution to their 5* dilution problem as well. Possibly they feel the more options on the internal screens, the more likely people are to mess them up and complain.
Interestingly enough, if, say a store existed where I could spend 20 CP to draw from the full (or non-recent) 4* pool and the "Classic" 5*s... I'd probably pass it up. I'm interested to see where this train goes. We won't know the "full" impact until Iron Fist gets phased out - he was the first 4* introduced after the system. Mine is currently 290.
Fightmastermpq said: You cover and champ a 4* like Iceman by setting him as your only 4* BH, and setting Mystique as your only 3* BH. I've added something like 40 levels to my Iceman since vaulting went live by doing exactly this. He is currently 369 and I'm just waiting to finish off my Mystique dupe for his final cover. I switched to C4rol a couple weeks ago and have already pulled half a dozen BH covers for her.Long term health of the game? Vaulting has little to no impact, and BH offers a distinctly positive impact. In the long term players are earning ISO at the same rate, and champing characters at the same rate. The total number of champed characters on your roster will be the same, and your odds of having a boosted/featured character champed will be the same regardless.What was really killing the long term health of the game was dilution, and vaulting solved it at the 4* tier.